Battletech An SI in the Concordat - GhostRider's Revenants (Battletech CYOA)Rev.2

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
I've always wanted to see an alt-fic where the Clans were actually a well run agressor force. You know...something that truly inspires fear at the STRATEGIC LEVEL.

Back to the topic...
I think the heavy increase in Naval assets will make for some very painful losses on the IS side. Especially if the clans (ie. Ravens) start launching nukes as anti squadron weapons.

To me, that's the logical tactical response.

The IS fighters will be forced to disperse their squadrons. This allows the clan ASF to closely follow the nuke strike and pounce on IS fighters at 1:1 ratios.... Or more if they've thrown out the rules.
 

IceWing_mk1

Well-known member
I've always wanted to see an alt-fic where the Clans were actually a well run agressor force. You know...something that truly inspires fear at the STRATEGIC LEVEL.

Back to the topic...
I think the heavy increase in Naval assets will make for some very painful losses on the IS side. Especially if the clans (ie. Ravens) start launching nukes as anti squadron weapons.

To me, that's the logical tactical response.

The IS fighters will be forced to disperse their squadrons. This allows the clan ASF to closely follow the nuke strike and pounce on IS fighters at 1:1 ratios.... Or more if they've thrown out the rules.

The problem with this is, frankly, scale.

How many planets do the Clans actually control in the Kerensky Cluster? According to Sarna, it's not many, and only TWO of them are fully habitable without SL terraforming equipment.

That means that, frankly, they do NOT have massive amounts of production capability, AND they're at the ass end of a MASSIVELY long supply chain.

The Inner Sphere, on the other hand, has something like 2000+ worlds. Sure most of them aren't fully industrialized, but it's going to be a lot easier for the IS to turnkey factories (since they're not shooting at each others' infrastructure for a change) than it is for the Clans to bring in replacement equipment AND personnel.

Also, the Clans do not use nukes indiscriminately and so Tauran tactics are going to hit them like a ton of bricks.

"HOW Many Nukes?!?!?!"
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
Problems for the clans...

Leadership has no strategic plan
Immensely long supply lines
No friendly space for rest and refit near conflict zones
Unrealistic understanding of war
Inflexible tactical doctrine
Inability to amalgamate conquered populations
No unified command structure
Exist in a state of perpetual civil war
Infrastucture is incapable of meeting demands of war

...and these are the ones That just pop into my mind.

The Clans were never a threat to the IS as a whole in their original format.

In THIS UNIVERSE they are going to get pantsed. Even the addition of the other clans will not prevent this.

Advantages for the IS
Vast Strategic depth
Leaders with a clue
Production in excess of needs for war
Tech close to parity even before clans arrive
Understanding of total war
Willingness to nuke the crap out of their enemies
Populations will see them as rescuers amd will likely commit to partisan action

I'm just hoping to see something besides 'curb stomp fiction'. Which is why I made the suggestions regarding Black Navy tactics for the Clans.
 

PeaceMaker 03

Well-known member
Just reread this story, like his you made the TC AND reach sane and growing power.

Never mind understood how the TC was the most educated realm in BT but could not figure out how to grow their economy.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
Just reread this story, like his you made the TC AND reach sane and growing power.

Never mind understood how the TC was the most educated realm in BT but could not figure out how to grow their economy.

Too many liberal arts degrees and not enough people actually going out to build a real business and produce something.

Just my guess.
 

PeaceMaker 03

Well-known member
No I think about it TC is like the Ukraine most college degrees per capita, but a doctor makes jack per month .
Granted been 15 years since I was last there.

But a doctor makes more as an interpreter than working as medical doctor.
 

hpackrat

Member
No I think about it TC is like the Ukraine most college degrees per capita, but a doctor makes jack per month .
Granted been 15 years since I was last there.

But a doctor makes more as an interpreter than working as medical doctor.
Are doctors not trusted in Ukraine or was there some other reason? I doubt the reasoning is the same in TC as we're talking about more than a single profession.
 

Rodon

Member
Are doctors not trusted in Ukraine or was there some other reason? I doubt the reasoning is the same in TC as we're talking about more than a single profession.
It looks to be an issue of out of pocket payments. Likely something like going to a mechanic that will try to get you to fix things that aren't broken, so they will earn more. Since they're pay is so low, they try to get the patient to take additional treatments to increase the amount they will pay the hospital/doctor.


Edit: So the doctors have a perverse incentive to get the patient to pay more, since they are paid so little. Which harms the patient's care.
 

PeaceMaker 03

Well-known member
The US Government, and NGO’s paid 5 x as much per month to people who spoke Ukrainian and English then local pay for Medical doctors.

More if they spoke other mangoes too. The trip to Ukraine was wild. Old west meets feudal robber barons. Everyone wanting bribes, bribes to receive the stuff you already paid for. Had an iridium with the minister of defense personnel number. Had to use it multiple times from the landing strip to the military base.

Hell great service the plane had not stopped and a ZIL jeep was there demanding a landing fee, $10k cash US BILLS ONLY.

The USAF refused to shut down engines because they would demand more money for parking fee. Had the same load the aircraft with engines running, into trucks that had to be sealed and bonded by the minister of defense agent.

Of course, they wanted payment for delivery of our equipment, in the trucks we paid to deliver the equipment, and paid for fuel. We had a fixer a local who could make stuff happen. It was a little psychedelic on how a 21-year-old fixer can make things happen. When a local commander could not.

A Ukraine officer tried to steal the computer drops from the server and then sell them back to us, after our ADVON installed them for the mission.

Almost bought a T-62 with spare engines and parts. But our embassy rep refused to process the paperwork. The fixer even had shipping to the US arranged and proper paperwork to sell to US citizen. The problem was ATF and imports from Ukraine of war materials, was disliked by the state department.

Really I wanted the Mig 29 he wanted to sell but was outside my price range.

Now in Ukraine, any war material is going to be used, or parts to keep stuff being used.
 

PeaceMaker 03

Well-known member
Man! And all he wanted to offer me was an old BTR. I was in Bosnia at the time so maybe just geographical availability was the issue.

Mig wpuld have made great lawn decor!

If I wanted lawn decor they had older MIGs I could probably have afforded a MIG 21, but it was getting the state Department to sign off on it. Downside is military baggage allotment was less than moving a MIG 21 every few years.

The fixer said he could fix that too. Except I have moral issues about “incentivizing” US government employees, into doing their job. I expect it in some countries, hell dealing with NATO allies I grew to expect it.
 

PeaceMaker 03

Well-known member
So the corruption in Ukraine is as bad in the LC of the story!

Yeah, systemic corruption in a lot of ways, from government officials to a large minority of US dollars in-country being counterfeit, to be the noticeable amount of consumer goods being counterfeit.

From medical drugs, to coffee, electronics, everything to anything could be found counterfeited. My country brief was counterfeit items could be as much as 80% of goods in some parts of the country.

One of the things our fixer acquired was coal for the boilers to heat water for the showers. Official sources wanted, well higher than market rates.

We caught soldiers trying to steal the coal, like tons of coal. When questioned it came out that it was ordered from above to take it over to another location. Was unsure if it was to sell on the market, or to complain about no hot water and try to sell back to us. Either was a likely possibility according to our fixer.
We had to post guards on the coal and fuel supplies as well as the vehicle motor pool or the vehicles would be emptied of fuel in the morning.

Back at the start of the century it was a Libertarian paradise. I think what happens in that situation is a power groups arise like crime cartels, which cause strongman to rise up to protect their group. Power, Wealth, protection.... They all cause groups to form power groups that cause the Law of Jungle.

And I will stop because this is becoming a derail, my apologies Paulo.
 
Chapter 93

paulobrito

Well-known member
August 9, 3056


Luthien System, Zenith Jump Point, Draconis Combine


Bridge of the CSR James McKenna (McKenna Class BattleShip)


Star Admiral Hinda Shu was thinking about her options before addressing her officers.


”Warriors, now that we have secured this Jump Point, we have two options : go right for their heart or jump somewhere where our Dezgra opponent might have set traps and win only a few days but at the potential cost of several units.


We are Snow Ravens, we are the Clans, we deploy our wings, and we will let fear strike in the hearts of our opponents as they witness us going for them.


Full speed ahead.”










August 17, 3056


Luthien, Draconis Combine






Eight days earlier, a huge Clan fleet had appeared at the Zenith Jump Point.


Quickly dispatching the forces protecting it, it had advanced towards the capital of the Draconis Combine, ten days away at 1 G, as the defense forces around it were preparing to intercept them.


The DCA Home Fleet was by no mean light with the Destroyers Asama and Izumo (Narukami Class) and the Frigate Kyushu (Kyushu Class), which was still undergoing trials, accompanied by 6 Assault DropShips and about 400 ASFs and faced them within two days of Luthien IV.


Unfortunately for the DCA, the invading force consisted of 7 WarShips, the Smoke Jaguar CSJ Snow Leopard (Congress Class Frigate), the Hell Horses CHH Bucephalus (Congress Class Frigate), and the Snow Raven Swift Wing Naval Assault Star, consisting of the CSR James McKenna (McKenna Class BattleShip), the CSR Blizzard (Cameron Class BattleCruiser), the CSR White Cloud (Sovetskii Soyuz Class Heavy Cruiser), the CSR White Terror (Aegis Class Heavy Cruiser) and the CSR Spur (Lolla III Class Destroyer).






Demonstrating that they had learned something from the previous battles, the Clan WarShips were accompanied by Assault DropShips and CV ones, from the Pentagon, Vengeance and Titan Classes, as well as a considerable number of ASFs, while the fleet of DropShips carrying the various Galaxies came considerably behind, escorted by the ASFs of the respective Galaxies.






Even though the more agile Kuritan ASFs had managed, at great cost, to open a gap for the heavier ones loaded with Alamos to get into range, the WarShips were far away enough for the Capital Missiles and the Pentagons to destroy many of the Combine ASFs before they reached the distance where they could launch the Alamos, almost exhausting their stocks of capital missiles


In the end, less than a dozen Alamos were launched, destroying one of the Pentagon DropShips and damaging the CSR Spur.


The last Kuritan ASFs were destroyed, but the Clan OmniFighters had also been severely reduced in number, now numbering less than a hundred.


The Assault DropShips were massacred by the long-range weaponry of the Clan forces, more precisely the Naval Lasers and Naval PPCs of the Ravens' heavy ships, without having done much damage.


Now, only the DCA WarShips and the surviving ASFs were left against a much superior force.


Unfortunately for the Kuritans, with their use of nuclear weapons, the Clans considered them dezgra and the rules favoring individual combat were no longer followed. Their greater range and firepower made themselves quickly felt, when the CSR James McKenna put a massive broadside of HNPPCs on the DCS Izumo, crippling the ship. The Asano managed to hit CSJ Snow Leopard's flank with its HNPPC, but the armor held, even if barely. The Destroyer paid dearly for its actions, being hit next by the Heavy Cruiser White Cloud, which destroyed part of its left broadside, with a salvo of NAC/20, NL45 and MNPPC, in a display of good shooting precision. Meanwhile, the Kyushu was trading shots with the CSR Blizzard, and by luck or superior skill, was doing more damage than it was receiving. That ended suddenly, when the CHH Bucephalus moving alongside it, with a maneuver few captains can equal, unloaded an entire broadside volley on its engines, greatly reducing the maneuverability of the Frigate.


After finishing off the Izumo with a long range heavy salvo of HNPPCs and NL55, the CSR James Mckenna demonstrated why the Mckenna Class was considered the zenith of BattleSghips, destroying the lamed Kyushu at close range with a devastating salvo from its NAC/40s. The Asano, managed to hit the CJS Snow Leopard again, causing moderate damage, before finally being destroyed by the CSR White Terror.


After recovering their surviving DropShips and ASFs and running SAR operations, the Clans resumed their advance towards Luthien IV.


Soon after the battle, the Taizai, a lone Overlord class DropShip departed Luthien heading towards the pirate Jump Point behind Orientalis, one of the four moons of Luthien IV, where a Scout JumpShip was waiting, ready to transport Minoru and Omiko Kurita to New Samarkand.
 

hpackrat

Member
On one hand, Kurita stomped so yay! On the other hand, Clanners are hypocrites who then throw out their own rules when it suits them. Boo! No surprise there. I'm a little surprised that there are no mention of battle-sats. Didn't the AU had the IS Houses build naval-laser battle-satellites earlier than in canon? I expected Luthien to be lousy with them like ticks on a dog.

Since I doubt the Combine can build up their forces any faster than they currently are doing so, what will they trade to the Bulls for more heavy ASF, Union CV & Union PWS? Is the Black Box tech on the market? Does the Combine have enough liquidity to make said purchases or will they be taking out loans?
 
Chapter 94

paulobrito

Well-known member
Arriving at the Nadir Jump Point the Taurian Expeditionary Force, was first received with hostility, because the Kuritans thought they were a second wave of invading Clanners. One Battlesat fired at the Taurian ships, but luckily, the shot hit the armor of the TCS Ajax that shrugged the damage. Before the Taurians answered in kind, both sides identified the other, and the situation calmed a bit. As soon as they identified the new visitors, the Kuritans requested their help in dealing with the invasion. Thankfully, for the Kuritans, all the ships were equipped with Lithium-Fusion batteries and after receiving the coordinates, they executed a second jump to the nearest Pirate Jump Point, the one to where the Tenzai was running. For a short moment Marshall Daniel Ostergaard toyed with the idea of sending a single WarShips to deal with the clan JumpShips that were at the Zenith Jump Point, but by this time they were likely to have already recharged, and he was probably going to need all his WarShips to deal with the Clan force.






After a quick exchange of words with the Tenzai as they crossed each other path, the WarShips set course aiming to intercept the Clan WarShips, while the JumpShips launched their DropShips that immediately headed for Luthien, to help defend against the impending invasion.


In response, the Clan WarShips also changed course, their objective being evident - to fight the TDF WarShip force.






The TDF war fleet was composed of the Heavy Cruiser TCS Pinnard (Winchester II Class), the Frigates TCS Parin and TCS Detroit (Concordat Carrier Class), TCS Fury and TCS Marantha Calderon (Concordat Class) and the Destroyers TCS Ajax and TCS Perdition (Ajax Class). This force represented about 60% of the available TDF WarShips, without counting the Pintos, and it had been a risky decision to send such a force on such a long voyage but the Taurian Concordat thought it was worth the risk.


While all this was going on, a considerable portion of the ASFs escorting the Clan DropShips changed course and approached their fleet of WarShips, which slowed enough to catch them before they reached the Taurians range, the Clanners commander had obviously decided that he needed a bigger escort after the losses suffered against the Kuritan fleet.






To the Clanners surprise, the number of ASFs the Taurians launched was much higher than they expected, over 600, while they even with the reinforcements, had about 400. Worse, even before they got within range of the weapons the OmniFighters had at their disposal, and which had so far granted them superior range, the Taurian ASFs launched massive salvos of AAM missiles that proved deadly to the OmniFighers, having some sort of seeker that kept them in sight outside of the most violent maneuvers, or the few clan OmniFighters also equipped with ECM units. But the surprises didn't stop there, since a considerable number of ECM systems, reducing the range the Clan radars could lock weapons on the Taurian ASFs, negated their usual long-range advantage.


Again, the heavier ASFs advanced towards the Clans WarShips, leaving the task of fighting the OmniFighters to the lighter, more agile ASFs. However, this time they were not coming alone. Capital Missiles salvos launched from DropShips that stood at a great distance (Lee Pocket WarShips) were rapidly reducing the Clan escorting DropShips in small leftovers of nuclear explosions. Unlike the dueling ASFs, these not only had massive ECM protection, but the capital missile magazines available for the defense of the Clan WarShips had been considerably reduced in the previous combat.


In desperation, the Clan WarShips began using their Naval Lasers to try to destroy the approaching ASFs, and managed to shoot down a few more.


Radical maneuvers, and in the case of the CSR James McKenna, six Goalkeeper Mk.V, prevented the worst, but even so, the CSR Spur, the CSR White Terror, and the CSJ Snow Leopard were destroyed by nuclear explosions, while the CHH Bucephalus and the CSR White Cloud were damaged. The improved Alamos that the Taurians were using, proved that they have a better lock ability than the normal ones.






Note: the Goalkeeper is a non-Lore, small craft, which appears in Delranes Fighting Ships 3061 - pages 85/87.






But now some of the WarShips were within extreme range of each other, and the long range weapons, Naval PPCs and Naval Lasers in the case of the Clans and Naval Lasers and nuke typed Capital Missiles in the case of the Taurians began to be used, the Clans having exhausted their Capital Missiles. Seeing the damage his forces had already done to the clan fleet, Marshall Ostergaard, ordered his WarShips to avoid combat if possible, planning to let the job of terminating the Clan WarShips to his still numerous ASFs that were right now returning home to re-arm and refuel as he didn’t want to risk a conventional battle against much heavier and more experienced adversaries.






Having run out of Clan DropShips and ASFs to destroy, the Lee PW, tried to concentrate their weaponry on enemy WarShips, using nuclear warheads. Unfortunately for the PW Lees, the HNPPC and NL55 had superior range to the capital missiles, and the Clan WarShips dedicated some of their long range armament to destroying them. Of the initial 8 Lee PW, only one survived. Clearly, Pocket WarShips had no business to do in a fight of WarShips.






Meanwhile, the Clanners were getting into range. Being the largest WarShip of the Taurian fleet, the TCS Pinnard received the attentions of the CSR James McKenna, and in the first exchange of fire unlucky, her armor been penetrated in several places by the heavy weapons of the Mckenna, at least not mortal. The TCS Fury was also in bad luck, being hit at the same time by the HNPPCs from the CSR Blizzard and several shots from the NL45 and the MNPPCs from the CSR White Cloud, and ended being penetrated at several points.


CSR Blizzard luck runs out when a Peacemaker hit the battle-cruiser bow, destroying its entire forward section and ending its long career.


The last Taurian capital missiles with nuke warheads finished off the CSR White Cloud, the battle from this point on would be decided with conventional weapons.


At this point, only the CSR James McKenna, incredibly nearly intact, and the severely damaged CHH Bucephalus remained, against seven Taurian WarShips, even though one of these was in equally bad shape.


The two Taurian Destroyers, the only Taurian warships still in combat range, concentrated their fire on the damaged CHH Bucephalus, finishing it off, even though both received several shots in return, leaving the TCS Ajax slightly damaged and the TCS Perdition moderately so.


At this phase in the battle, all the Taurian WatShips were now out of range from the McKenna, with orders to let the ASFs that were right now in the process of rearming deal with the mighty WarShip.


At the same time, pleas for the surrender of the Clan WarShip were broadcast by the Taurians, that clearly wanted to capture the mighty WarShip if possible. They were left without answer either because the Clan WarShip was left without communication means or because it was trying what to do after suffering such a beating.


Soon, about two hundred heavy ASFs, loaded to the gills with Alamos approached the sole Clan survivor. Salvo after salvo of Alamos hit the mighty Warship until it was little more than a wreck in space, venting atmosphere from several places, with the engines destroyed and without power.


SAR operations were immediately launched, while the Taurian ships started their repairs and the TCS Marantha Calderon (Concordat Class Frigate), undamaged, being the first to move in direction of Luthien IV, to help with that part of the battle.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
My problem with fighter tactica in Battletech is that NO fighter can deploy strategically and intercept a mobile target. The fuel bunkerage allows warships to maneuver away from intercept. The only way to intercept is a High-G burn over mimutes of time. Maybe more than an hour.

Thats not something a pilot can endure and be fresh to the fight...even assuming a fighter has the fuel for it.
 

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