• Attention All Comstar Customers, Due to unexpected interference by suspected Word of Blake operatives, the HPG systems update was *not* successful. No data was lost due to our careful and extensive backups; however, we will need to try again next weekend. Sincerely, Comstar Precentor Dune

Alternate History Map Thread

WolfBear

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
Reaction score
7,880
With the exception of Danzig and the connection to east Prussia all of those gains were made OTL without war. With a leadership less insane and violent than the Nazis they should still be possible in TTL. Without the betrayal of the annexation of the rump Czech state and a still democratic and legalistic Germany why would Britain and France support Poland against such limited demands - especially if steps to protect Polish access to the sea for economic purposes were included? Without western support and with Russia still the primary threat to the east its quite likely that Poland would give up without a fight.

Germany actually hide significant rearmament or at least clear breaches of the Versailles Treaty long before Hitler came to power and again they were planning what became known as the pocket battleships which again breached restraints under the Treaty. As such even with a much lighter level of rearmament - which would greatly aid the German economy compared to OTL - Germany should be able to achieve the targets on that map.
I agree with this. Hitler apparently lost a lot of goodwill in Britain after he occupied rump Czechia, which caused a lot of pressure to be put on Chamberlain to take a tougher line on any future Nazi territorial demands, no matter just how legitimate they might seem. Here, Germany wouldn't have squandered its goodwill with Britain yet, which would make it easier for Britain to stay out of any war that involves France, Germany, and France's Eastern European allies. Unless such a war will begin early due to unfinished German rearmament, I would expect Germany to have decent odds of winning this war in the East if Germany is actually eventually willing to spark such a war. Without Britain, France simply won't have enough strength by itself to march all of the way to Berlin or even possibly to the Ruhr if Germany is fully rearmed, especially if Germany will have twice as many people as France has. Germany won't rearm at the same rate as in real life, but it also won't need to start a new war at the same time as in real life either. If a new war does eventually start, I would expect Germany to play defense in the west against France while going on the offensive in the east; after Germany gets what it wants, Germany would issue a call to convene a peace conference. If Poland refuses, then not only are German troops going to march all of the way to Warsaw, but Germany can invite the Soviet Union to enter this war to get the Kresy back, and once Soviet troops conquer the Kresy, they won't be giving it back. Germany can appease Britain by saying that it would be willing to withdraw from the indisputably Polish parts of Poland (including Warsaw) and Gdynia once Poland would agree to a peace deal to end this war, specifically one that would involve Polish territorial concessions to Germany (and possibly to the Soviet Union as well).

In this TL, Germany will presumably declare that it is permanently satisfied after acquiring specific Polish lands and perhaps Austria as well and won't be acquiring any additional territories unless it will be done through a mutually agreed territorial purchase, as was the case for Louisiana in 1803, Alaska in 1867, and the Danish West Indies in 1917 for the US.
 

stevep

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2020
Reaction score
1,946
I don't think that the Soviets, massively overstretched as they were already could have marched into German, or really supported an isolated and weakly supported communist Hungary. In the former case Germany has a lot of WWI veterans most of who would bitterly oppose such an attack. Furthermore a communist take over is the one thing that would make the western powers, especially Britain and the US relax the restrictions on the German military.

Which might not be good for Poland as its likely to be partitioned yet again between a Soviet state and a right wing Germany. Plus once letting the genie out of the bottle can the west put it back in?
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
Reaction score
7,880
I don't think that the Soviets, massively overstretched as they were already could have marched into German, or really supported an isolated and weakly supported communist Hungary. In the former case Germany has a lot of WWI veterans most of who would bitterly oppose such an attack. Furthermore a communist take over is the one thing that would make the western powers, especially Britain and the US relax the restrictions on the German military.

Which might not be good for Poland as its likely to be partitioned yet again between a Soviet state and a right wing Germany. Plus once letting the genie out of the bottle can the west put it back in?
Agreed and one more thing: The West itself might directly militarily intervene in Germany in such a scenario. Especially the Anglo-French. Yes, they would be exhausted from WWI but preventing a Communist takeover in Germany would probably be much more vital for them than preventing a Communist takeover in Russia was due to Germany being much more industrialized and thus much more important than Russia was, at least in the short-run.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
Reaction score
7,880



The Byzantine Empire was apparently sometimes known as R(h)omania. Confusing, right?
 

Agent23

Evrogopnik MRA ant-SJW
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Reaction score
6,663



The Byzantine Empire was apparently sometimes known as R(h)omania. Confusing, right?
No, the Romanians have this national myth that they are successors of Rome.

Hence the country name.

And ther was never a Byzantine empire, they called themselves Romans, we called them Greeks to troll and insult them.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
Reaction score
7,880
No, the Romanians have this national myth that they are successors of Rome.

Hence the country name.

And ther was never a Byzantine empire, they called themselves Romans, we called them Greeks to troll and insult them.
Byzantine is a term from the 18th century, IIRC. It's named after Byzantium, Constantinople's original name.

And aren't Romanians in part descended from Roman settlers who moved into Dacia?
 

Agent23

Evrogopnik MRA ant-SJW
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Reaction score
6,663
And aren't Romanians in part descended from Roman settlers who moved into Dacia?
Yeah, that is what the Romanians claim, that they are literally Romans.

There was no Romania, prior to the late 19th century though, just Wallachia and Moldavia.
 

Sārthākā

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Reaction score
120
12 Ways to Divide the DOMINION OF FLORIDA
Stereotype Map of a British Florida



This is basically a stereotype/division map of an Independent Florida that got where it was because of the United Kingdom holding on to Florida after the American Revolutionary War at the Treaty of Paris as Louis XVI wanted them to. Britain retains Florida, and it eventually gains self-governance and responsible government in 1913 as a dominion and remains so. Despite an American invasion in 1812, the invasion was expelled, and the region has remained fiercely independent.

Thoughts and comments?
 

VictortheMonarch

Victor the Crusader
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Reaction score
1,005
Location
Tennessee, USA
During Wolter von Plettenberg's tenure as as Landmeister of the Livonian Order, he would make the wrong decision in supporting the Protestants. This would lead to his, and the Livonian Order as a whole's downfall. While some of the peasantry in the Livonian Order lands were converting to Protestantism, many chose to stay true to the Catholic faith, and were quite disturbed by the Landmeister's revolt against the pope. These people would gather in what would become known as the Marienburg Revolution.

This war would start due to Rudolf von Henneberg, a traveling noble of a small Franconian county being arrested. He was well known in the area due to being kind and honorable, earning the respect of the people of Marienburg and the surrounding towns. The people would revolt, and it would snowball until eventually Rudolf von Henneberg would be pronounced by the people as King of Livonia. Towards the end of Rudolfs life he would fight against Poland-Lithuania, with its Ally Brandenburg. They would dismantle the Kingdom, with much of the remains being annexed by Moscovy.

The Kingdom of Livonia would later be forced to fight the Russians, where it would defend against them with aid of their Ally Brandenburg, they would annex parts of modern day Estland in this war. After this Livonia would continue the longest era of Peace in history, which would only be ceased after the First World War. In this war it would defend itself from Russia, who seeked to annex it. It would slaughter the Russian Army that seeked to go around it and into Germany, killing fifteen Russians per Livonian.

After the First Great War (which they were made to pay no reparations due to limited interaction in the war) Livonia would continue peacefully uninvolved. Being glossed over by Adolf Hitler in the Second World War in the 40's and would ignore the Third World War in the 70's. Due to these wars, Livonia remains as the ninth highest populated nation in Europe, at twenty million men and women, and boasts the third highest GDP in Europe at $3.098 trillion. The nominal religion is Catholicism, though many subscribe to the Orthodox and Protestant church.

The Largest population group is the Baltikdeutsch, or the Baltic Germans. They make up 71% of the population of the nation, with native Baltic peoples (the Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians) making up 24% of the population. the remaining 5% is nominally Immigrants, though the nation has a carpet ban on most Middle Eastern and African nations.


 

VictortheMonarch

Victor the Crusader
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Reaction score
1,005
Location
Tennessee, USA


During the Battle of Konstantinople (1453), Sultan Mehmed II and Imperator Konstantine XI would meet in one of the Battles final Skirmishes, the 'Duel of the Ox' as it would be known, in part due to occurring in the Forum of the Ox, would be a turning point of the Battle. Sultan Mehmed, far younger and arrogant, would face off against the Imperator, and would nearly slay Konstantine, having him on his back. A excerpt from Imperator Konstantine's published Journal 'Ρώμη για πάντα' would read;

'... As the Sultan had be splayed on my back, bleeding from the gashes and mine own missing finger, I heard a voice, the voice of mine own God. A voice that commanded me to strike then, and with what little strength in my body, I drove my Paramerion through his throat and out the nape, ending the Sultan there.'

The Turks would attempt to retrieve the Sultan's body, but would be driven out from the walls. This would drive the Sultanate into Civil War, a civil war that would allow the Byzantines to reconquer the European parts of the Ottoman Empire. In the end, Orhan Çelebi would ascend to the Sultanate as Orhan I.

Orhan would lead a silent reign, but his son; Arslan The Conqueror would kick up a storm. After conquering the region of Georgia, he would find himself at odds with Aq Qoyunlu.

The young Arslan was a man of Might, and saw his neighbor, Uzun Hasan as a rival of sorts, and took his Blaise and disregard as insulting. Thus in 1471 he invaded. Over the course of three years he had taken almost the entirety of Aq Qoyunlu, and personally slew Uzun Hasan in the Battle of Crescent Fields outside Tabriz.

He would then proceed onwards, and would end his reign in 1487, conquering much of the Timurid Empire and taking the whole of Persia under his rule.

The Ottoman Sultanate would later become the Ottoman Caliphate in 1673 after the conquest of Mecca and Medina, alongside Egypt.

The Ottoman Caliphate would collapse in 1846, in the Blood War, in which the Byzantine Empire and Russian Empire would Assault Anatolia while aiding Egyptian, Palestinian, Assyrian, Iraq, Kurdish and Persian rebels, who would go on to form their own Kingdoms.
 

VictortheMonarch

Victor the Crusader
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Reaction score
1,005
Location
Tennessee, USA


In the Battle of Konstantinople, a Empire was reborn. In the Battle, Imperator (Emperor) Konstantin XI would defeat Sultan Mehmed II, slaying him, single handedly destroying Ottoman claims to the Eastern Jewel.

With the death of the Sultan, various noblemen in the Ottoman Sultanate rebelled, giving Konstantin XI the chance to reconquer much of the European lands. he would attempt to attack Anatolia as a whole, but would fail.

He and his descendants would not step into Anatolia again until 1846.

In 1843, Tsar Nicholai IV Rurikovich and Imperator Basil V would plot the destruction of the Sick Empire; The Ottoman Caliphate. They would conspire to stew cultural unrest within its lands and in 1846 would begin what is known as the Blood War.

In the war many differing Cultures within the Ottoman Caliphate would revolt, quickly followed by Roman and Russian invasion. The war would last just a few months, beginning on July 5 and ending on December 19.

In the aftermath the Turkish people would be forcefully relocated into a rump state, in an event known as the Trail of Blood. this would not be the end of this however.

In 1935 Badri Musafari would rise as the Önder of the Turkish Republic in a bloodless coup with aid of the Türkiye Nasyonal Sosyalist Partisi (Nasy Party). He would quickly ally Adolf Himmler and would later join his faction in the Second Great War. In this war the Turkish State would Invade the Roman Empire.

The whole of Rome would be conquered, and Imperator Konstantin XV would evacuate to America, where he would stay until 1947, where he would return and aid in the retaking of Rome, and aid his friend Tsar Alexander VI in defeating the Germans.

After the War Badri Musafari would be charged with Genocide against the Greek people, and would be executed in 1951 a year after the war's end. He would be executed by Guillotine Publicly in Konstantinople.

Rome holds a population of 132 Million people with a GDP per capita of $61,412 (or ₯ 59,924). It's Nominally Orthodox, though Catholics and Islam are the second and third largest religions in the nation.
 
Top Bottom