Probably the latter, if we go by the subtext of @Skallagrim's posts.
Alternate History Ideas and Discussion
- Thread starter AndrewJTalon
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Skallagrim
Well-known member
It's bound to be a scenario that sucks, but I don't really expect the neighbours to be stealing the produce. They have their own agricultural sectors (certainly the USA!), and with (fomer) Germany de-industrialised, the neighbours will be able to focus on building up their own industry. I rather think they'll force the Germn states into treaties under whose terms the neighbours will be able to buy agricultural products at pre-determined prices.
That's not a good deal for the Germans, obviously, but if your entire region is agricultural, it's hard to suffer food shortages (unless there's massive crop blights or something).
Yeah, sure, until someone decides "Fuck these Germans" and takes everything. The rest of the nations won't do shit because why should they? After all, it only is germans that starve.
Frankly, that TL deserves to get nuked.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
In principle, I agree. You shouldn't be punished for what your ancestors did, when you had no say in the process and no way to stop them.
At the same time, though, they need to understand and drill it into their heads where their forerunners went wrong, so that future generations will never so much as think to repeat it. To that end, thorough Holocaust education and reparations to the remaining victims of Nazi atrocities seem like reasonable steps, with post-war generations of Germans able to start over again with a clean slate, as soon as reparations have been paid and they've turned their lives around completely.
We know from OTL that breaking Germany up and dismantling its industry was unnecessary, but can you expect people with a considerably worse experience and no pragmatic reason to prop it up in the aftermath to know that? That doesn't make the ATL Allies right, mind you, but there's a reason why they won't have it rising up to make Europe tremble a third time, given how the Treaty of Versailles still wasn't enough to prevent Round Two.
Yeah, in the OTL, the german people are culturally broken. Self-hatred might as well be in the very DNA of the average German.
Is that what a nation with a sordid past should be like? To deny that anything could come out of it? To let itself willingly be replaced by "refugees" and "immigrants"?
I do not think so.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Never advocated for any of that, nor do I endorse self-hatred or the idea that Germany is beyond saving, because of what a different country run by different people did seventy to eighty years ago.
What I am saying is that Germans should still understand where their forerunners went wrong and the dangers of the preexisting cultural and ideological trends the Nazis capitalized on—nationalism, virulent anti-Semitism, and blind deference to authority—so that they can actually start over and move forward. Having that said, it's unfortunate that the Woke activists and CRT proponents don't want to put the past behind them, and are deliberately poking a bear they really ought to leave alone.
Doomsought
Well-known member
one of these things is not like the others.
And no, they do not understand. The completely put the blame on the wrong thing, nationalism. They still completely support blind deference to authority as a culture.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
That might depend on when exactly in his third term he dies.
Being replaced by immigrants isn't the worst thing that can happen if they don't bring over any bad political ideas with them and also don't strain the social safety net too much. And also if neither they nor their descendants ever actually become Woke.
Uh-huh. How about you fuck off with your genocide apologia. Because that's what you are spewing here.
Not exactly.One of polish nationalists before WW2 said,that blacks or indians would be as good poles as any other if we take out culture and religion.And he was right.
If people in Poland eventually get replaced by martians with tentacles who speak polish,live polish culture and go to churches,then Poland would still live.
Replacement != genocide since in a replacement, the original population could still remain intact. Think of Israel's original Ashkenazi Jewish population being replaced by non-Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants in the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, for instance (before ex-USSR Ashkenazi Jews restored this balance to some extent, of course).
Well, at least if their average IQ wasn't significantly lower than that of Poles.
But Yeah, I didn't actually say that replacement was automatically good. Only that it didn't have to be bad in every single case. And technically speaking, we also have a population replacement when the old die and are replaced by youngsters, and this isn't always bad either.
His incumbency advantage is enough for him to win in 1960. He almost won in 1960 as a non-incumbent in real life anyway.
I wonder if the US Congress issues a declaration that it will protect Western Europe from Communist aggression in this TL but without actually having the US create anything similar to NATO. This declaration idea was actually what Taft initially wanted in regards to this.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
'Khmer Rouge More Well-Known In The West'.
Doesn't exactly qualify, but I suppose having the "Mao loses and flees to Taiwan" scenario from earlier happen would have more or less the same affect, should Nationalist China retake Taiwan later. In which case, I assume a US-backed invasion would be broadcast internationally, complete with the American media and the White House milking it every which way to show that communism is the creation of the Devil himself. At that point, Mao would basically go down as Red Hitler, with even the USSR and its satellites distancing themselves from his former regime.
Doesn't exactly qualify, but I suppose having the "Mao loses and flees to Taiwan" scenario from earlier happen would have more or less the same affect, should Nationalist China retake Taiwan later. In which case, I assume a US-backed invasion would be broadcast internationally, complete with the American media and the White House milking it every which way to show that communism is the creation of the Devil himself. At that point, Mao would basically go down as Red Hitler, with even the USSR and its satellites distancing themselves from his former regime.
Have them kidnap and murder a bunch of Americans/Westerners? Similar to what North Korea sometimes does with Japanese? :
North Korean abductions of Japanese citizens - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
'AHC: Additional post-WWI plebiscites'
In real life, we had plebiscites in Masuria, Upper Silesia, the Saarland (in 1935), Carinthia, Schleswig, and Sopron after the end of WWI. Is there any realistic way to have additional plebiscites here, and, if so, where exactly?
In real life, we had plebiscites in Masuria, Upper Silesia, the Saarland (in 1935), Carinthia, Schleswig, and Sopron after the end of WWI. Is there any realistic way to have additional plebiscites here, and, if so, where exactly?
Bassoe
Well-known member
What if Apollo Eleven actually did bring back a plague? Contact is lost with the astronauts around a day before splashdown, then when the crew of the Hornet find and open the capsule, they're all dead. A day later, so's the entire Hornet crew and President Nixon and the derelict plague ship has to be scuttled with long-range bombing. Both the possibility that that was sufficient to maintain quarantine or that the plague jumps species to marine life and turns into a doomsday global pandemic could make for interesting timelines.
In OTL Czech dominated other in new state - but,since they have big slovak,moravian,ruthenian and german minorities,you could imagine plebiscities there,too.
And in Yugoslavia - Croats,slovenians and macedonians do not wonted serb overlords there.