Alternate History Ideas and Discussion

[Zyobot]

That or abunch of Nazi Terrorists. I doubt you could truely kill German Nationalism.

Pretty sure @Skallagrim's solution entails de-Nazification 10.0, though.

You'll still have a few lunatics who draw all the wrong conclusions, of course, but I imagine the W/Allies will do the utmost to ensure their numbers rise no higher than the single-digit range and that they have no power to enact their race-war fever dreams, long after the war has ended and the victors have made their hegemony permanent.

 

[Earl]

Pretty sure @Skallagrim's solution entails de-Nazification 10.0, though.

You'll still have a few lunatics who draw all the wrong conclusions, of course, but I imagine the W/Allies will do the utmost to ensure they're in the single-digit range and have no power to enact their race-war fever dreams, long after the war has ended and the victors have made their hegemony permanent.

Full on Denazification is difficult and seeing your country be dismantled is not going to sit well. So what is the local German who wants to see his country reunified to do? Why look for inspiration from the past! Some will probably look and say "The Nazis were actually totally right and we have to fight back!" others will go for other inspiration or try to move forward (seeing alot of Willy Brandt in this one), but either way? Probably going to be Civil Resistance in the next generation with a heavy dose of Terrorism/ Militant Resistance.

 

[Zyobot]

Full on Denazification is difficult and seeing your country be dismantled is not going to sit well. So what is the local German who wants to see his country reunified to do? Why look for inspiration from the past! Some will probably look and say "The Nazis were actually totally right and we have to fight back!" others will go for other inspiration or try to move forward (seeing alot of Willy Brandt in this one), but either way? Probably going to be Civil Resistance in the next generation with a heavy dose of Terrorism/ Militant Resistance.

Beating the Germans over the head with their conduct during World War II should make it brutally clear why the Third Reich deserves no credit or sympathy of any kind.

That, and I think the vassal-state governments will crush any Neo-Nazi insurgents who still act up, fearing catastrophic consequences if they don’t. Considering that the W/Allies have threatened to nuke them if they reunite or otherwise circumvent their terms, I think it’d be in their best interest to suppress agitators and brand the nation’s “Original Sin” into their citizens’ collective psyche, with Hitler replacing Adam and Eve as the one who damned Germany to be forever wicked. Never mind how W/Allied troops might march in and do the job themselves, if the local authorities aren’t up to it.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

"A more Latin American style multicultural Philippines, post WWII"

By what I meant about this is that the Philippines becomes an Asian equivalent of a multicultural Latin American country, where more immigrants from Europe or Asia move to the Philippines in significant numbers, kinda like how South America received more immigrants post-WWII. I did toy with the idea about it, with the PoD around 1949:

What no one knows about the post-war era was that there were 5,000 White Russian emigres who fled from China after the communists won the Chinese Civil War. Out of all the SE Asian nations that were approached, only the Philippines accepted the White Russian refugees, where they stayed in refugee camps until they were allowed to move to other nations around the world. The White Russians stayed in the island of Tubabao, close to Samar Province, and while they stayed there, there was a letter that was sent to the US government from St. John of Shanghai, pleading for the US to allow the White Russians to settle there. The letter was eventually received, and the White Russians were allowed to move to the US and other countries from the Philippines.

So what is the letter was simply lost, or the US government did not respond? While I'm not sure if this may lead to the foundation of a Latin American-style multicultural Philippines, with various immigrant groups from Europe and Asia becoming more integrated into Filipino society, would it also encourage neighboring nations like Vietnam, Cambodia, and even Thailand to allow emigration of their peoples into the Philippines as well?

 

[WolfBear]

"A more Latin American style multicultural Philippines, post WWII"

By what I meant about this is that the Philippines becomes an Asian equivalent of a multicultural Latin American country, where more immigrants from Europe or Asia move to the Philippines in significant numbers, kinda like how South America received more immigrants post-WWII. I did toy with the idea about it, with the PoD around 1949:

What no one knows about the post-war era was that there were 5,000 White Russian emigres who fled from China after the communists won the Chinese Civil War. Out of all the SE Asian nations that were approached, only the Philippines accepted the White Russian refugees, where they stayed in refugee camps until they were allowed to move to other nations around the world. The White Russians stayed in the island of Tubabao, close to Samar Province, and while they stayed there, there was a letter that was sent to the US government from St. John of Shanghai, pleading for the US to allow the White Russians to settle there. The letter was eventually received, and the White Russians were allowed to move to the US and other countries from the Philippines.

So what is the letter was simply lost, or the US government did not respond? While I'm not sure if this may lead to the foundation of a Latin American-style multicultural Philippines, with various immigrant groups from Europe and Asia becoming more integrated into Filipino society, would it also encourage neighboring nations like Vietnam, Cambodia, and even Thailand to allow emigration of their peoples into the Philippines as well?

5,000 White Russians isn't all that much. I suppose that you could have the West pay the Philippines to accept Indochinese refugees en masse if the West doesn't want to resettle them in their own countries, but would the Philippines actually be interested in this? I mean, maybe if the West offered them enough money in exchange for this, I suppose?

 

[WolfBear]

The USSR existed and was the next big threat. Naturally, former enemies had to be propped up. But if the USSR has collapsed and Russia is presumably going to be fairly weak for decades, then that argument ceases to be relevant. If, due to this premise, the war is longer and gets more brutal (with Hitler using nerve gas to kill countless American soldiers), there will be no clemency of any kind.

I'm not saying it'll be another Carthage, the Americans won't burn down the whole country and salt the earth afterwards, but they'll make damn sure to dismantle all industry and carve Germany into small, de-armed, exclusively pastoral tid-bits.

I don't think that'll involve starving the Germans to death. That was proposed as a war measure (and indeed, was a consequence of bombing rail-roads even in OTL). Afterwards, dismantling the industry and forcing all Germans to become pacifist farmers will in fact ensure that starvation is quickly a thing of the past. The amalgamation of German states will become "Europe's granary".

A century later, the stereotype of the German will be a slightly dumb, slighty overweight farmer. The jackboots and helmets will be a thing of the past. Another country, as it were. A Germany that has ceased to exist.

So, in other words, the Mennonite and/or Amish ideal will become the ideal for all of Germany?

 

[Zyobot]

So, in other words, the Mennonite and/or Amish ideal will become the ideal for all of Germany?

Former Germany becoming a bunch of Amish vassal states crossed my mind, too, yes.

I can't speak to what @Skallagrim thinks, of course, but that's my impression of what breaking Germany up and dismantling its industry would entail.

 

[WolfBear]

Former Germany becoming a bunch of Amish vassal states crossed my mind, too, yes.

I can't speak to what @Skallagrim thinks, of course, but that's my impression of what breaking Germany up and dismantling its industry would entail.

Fits in quite well with the Mennonites' and Amish's pacificism and shunning of modern technology.

 

[Zyobot]

Fits in quite well with the Mennonites' and Amish's pacificism and shunning of moral technology.

I understand your point just fine, but I believe you meant modern technology when you wrote that.

 

[WolfBear]

I understand your point just fine, but I believe you meant modern technology when you wrote that.

Yep, I did. Now fixed.

 

[Skallagrim]

Just translate the Weird Al song into German and we're set.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

5,000 White Russians isn't all that much. I suppose that you could have the West pay the Philippines to accept Indochinese refugees en masse if the West doesn't want to resettle them in their own countries, but would the Philippines actually be interested in this? I mean, maybe if the West offered them enough money in exchange for this, I suppose?

The Philippines took in those White Russian refugees, and they were basically an impoverished, post war nation. And IOTL, we did actually take in Vietnamese refugees who fled from Vietnam. But the main problem isn’t the money: it’s the political will.

 

[WolfBear]

The Philippines took in those White Russian refugees, and they were basically an impoverished, post war nation. And IOTL, we did actually take in Vietnamese refugees who fled from Vietnam. But the main problem isn’t the money: it’s the political will.

Filipinos don't want to accept refugees, not even culturally compatible ones?

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

Actually, we do. The infrastructure alone is the main question, but otherwise, Filipinos have a history of taking in refugees. Jews, White Russians, Vietnamese, even Chinese fleeing from China after the Chinese Civil War was over, and probably others. I may have misspoke on certain areas. We do have the political will, but as I’ve said, infrastructure might make it hard. That’s why not a lot of people actually immigrate to the Philippines. It’s more of Filipinos immigrating to other nations.

 

[WolfBear]

Actually, we do. The infrastructure alone is the main question, but otherwise, Filipinos have a history of taking in refugees. Jews, White Russians, Vietnamese, even Chinese fleeing from China after the Chinese Civil War was over, and probably others. I may have misspoke on certain areas. We do have the political will, but as I’ve said, infrastructure might make it hard. That’s why not a lot of people actually immigrate to the Philippines. It’s more of Filipinos immigrating to other nations.

The poverty in the Philippines might also be a factor, no?

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

The poverty in the Philippines might also be a factor, no?

Yeah, but it didn’t stop us from taking in the refugees. Filipinos have always been about hospitality after all, no matter how poor we are.

 

[Doomsought]

Idea 1:
The United Kingdom decides to pressure the neuvo rich in the colonies into buying tittles of nobility. This eventually gives the colonies representation in parliament and butterflies away the American Revolution in totality.

Idea 2:
South Africa creates a retro-viral bio-weapon to "Turn blacks into whites". What it really does is turn 60% of those infected with it into Albinos. The bio weapon is either leaked or deployed and runs its course through most of the human population.

 

[WolfBear]

Idea 2:
South Africa creates a retro-viral bio-weapon to "Turn blacks into whites". What it really does is turn 60% of those infected with it into Albinos. The bio weapon is either leaked or deployed and runs its course through most of the human population.

Are the albinos going to get white privilege afterwards?

 

[WolfBear]

Yeah, but it didn’t stop us from taking in the refugees. Filipinos have always been about hospitality after all, no matter how poor we are.

Yes, but it might make potential migrants less eager/willing to move to the Philippines.

Anyway:

'AHC: Have national self-determination be a more accepted principle worldwide'

 

[Bassoe]

The USSR existed and was the next big threat. Naturally, former enemies had to be propped up. But if the USSR has collapsed and Russia is presumably going to be fairly weak for decades, then that argument ceases to be relevant. If, due to this premise, the war is longer and gets more brutal (with Hitler using nerve gas to kill countless American soldiers), there will be no clemency of any kind.

I'm not saying it'll be another Carthage, the Americans won't burn down the whole country and salt the earth afterwards, but they'll make damn sure to dismantle all industry and carve Germany into small, de-armed, exclusively pastoral tid-bits.

I don't think that'll involve starving the Germans to death. That was proposed as a war measure (and indeed, was a consequence of bombing rail-roads even in OTL). Afterwards, dismantling the industry and forcing all Germans to become pacifist farmers will in fact ensure that starvation is quickly a thing of the past. The amalgamation of German states will become "Europe's granary".

A century later, the stereotype of the German will be a slightly dumb, slighty overweight farmer. The jackboots and helmets will be a thing of the past. Another country, as it were. A Germany that has ceased to exist.

That depends, are the Germans keeping the crops they grow or are the Americans, Europeans and Soviets stealing them?