Alternate History Ideas and Discussion

Buba

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@TheRomanSlayer
Neither coast has good connections with the core hinterland, but some coasts are made worse than others :)

Up to the Time of Troubles Muscovy - through Novgorod, was on the Baltic. This coast was lost c.1610 to Swedish imperialists.
In ancient times there was a portage between the Volkhov and Volga River Basis. After Peter I reign a canal was built. Run a search for Vyshniy Volochok (High Little Portage - ain't Russian placenames cute?)

The Black Sea is useless. The entire region is practically unpopulated and will be until the Crimean slavers are subjugated. And the steppes settled - which will take 2-3 generations. The link to the Volga basin is not possible without 19th century tech (railways! dynamite for canal!). And the Turks can close the Straits at a whim.

If your aim is "more monies for the tsars" - the Baltic it is.

Forget about the Pacific. Look at OTL. Again, no RR = no real Russian presence there.
 
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ATP

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Not sure if it might be a scenario, but I just want to ask this:

Would the Grand Duchy of Moscow have a better time trying to get into the Baltic Sea (to join the lucrative Baltic trade, as well as to secure a port in the Baltic), or would they have a better time trying to get into the Black Sea (where the Ottomans are located, and have a possible shot at conquering the Crimean Khanate)? This crux is the main reason why one of my TLs is in a need of a constant reboot, since I'm not sure if an absence of Russia in the Baltic region would either be more harmful in the long run, or more beneficial for an earlier expansion into the Pacific and Siberia.
Till 1696 Poland blocked Moscow from sea,and Sweden did the same till 1720.But,turks remained superpower till 1683,too.
So,unless one of those states weaken earlier,going to Pacyfic is best option for moscovites till at least 1683.
 

Buba

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The Pacific is Russia's only chance ... ?
Aren't you people forgetting about ... Arkangielsk?
 
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TheRomanSlayer

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There’s also Kola as a possible port, but that might require massive investment, which the Muscovite state didn’t have back then. However, Murmansk was founded as an alternative port in case the Baltic was inaccessible.

There is also an economic angle to the scenarios that I proposed: an earlier development of Russian manufacturing.
 

Buba

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Anything on the Kola Peninsula i.e. Murmansk without a RR is ... silly.
 

ATP

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There’s also Kola as a possible port, but that might require massive investment, which the Muscovite state didn’t have back then. However, Murmansk was founded as an alternative port in case the Baltic was inaccessible.

There is also an economic angle to the scenarios that I proposed: an earlier development of Russian manufacturing.
Manufacturing need free people.Till 18th century all muscovities except tsar was his rabs/slaves/.

Which not stopped some boyars from killing their owner sometimes....
But prevented from forming any manufacture.Becouse only private manufactures are succesfull,and you need free owners and at least part of workers for that.

So,Russia could only earlier go to Pacyfic - if China do not blocked them.They ,as Manchu dynasty,had Manchuria after all.
So - they could do nothink except waiting till their neigbeurs become easy victims of invasion.
Becouse as long as Poland was strong,they get easy beaten by much smaller armies.
 

Bassoe

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There's maybe one post that talks about your scenario, all others are whining about how dare the author be an islamophobe and all the usual sjw-tripe. I'd much rather read the thread on 4chan you posted. Is it on /tv/ or /lit/?

EDIT: Found it. It was neither, but /pol/ instead. Direct Link to screenshot.
I wouldn't know about the thread, I found the screencap on /tg/. But the point stands, an ISOT from the future where the people ISOTed were more concerned with preempting or averting something from their own time which hadn't happened yet than the concerns of their ancestors would be original.
 

Buba

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an ISOT from the future where the people ISOTed were more concerned with preempting or averting something from their own time which hadn't happened yet than the concerns of their ancestors would be original.
I am certain that I read a short story (in a dead tree collection of shorts? pre-internet days) where the premise was time travel existing, and "agents" being sent "up" and "down" the "corridor of time" to avert Bad Things Happening.
At a certain point they came across "blocked doors" to certain time periods as the people living in those times decided that ISOTs "fixing things" is making things too easy for them and they are stagnating.
I'm going by memory here - I read that in the late 80s or - more likely - early 90s. No idea about the author nor when that book had been printed.
 

stevep

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I am certain that I read a short story (in a dead tree collection of shorts? pre-internet days) where the premise was time travel existing, and "agents" being sent "up" and "down" the "corridor of time" to avert Bad Things Happening.
At a certain point they came across "blocked doors" to certain time periods as the people living in those times decided that ISOTs "fixing things" is making things too easy for them and they are stagnating.
I'm going by memory here - I read that in the late 80s or - more likely - early 90s. No idea about the author nor when that book had been printed.
That sounds very like Issac Asimov's novel The_End_of_Eternity. There are probably a number of other stories which would fit but its the 1st that came to my mind. I rather grew up on Asimov's novels in the 70's. :)
 

Atarlost

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But the point stands, an ISOT from the future where the people ISOTed were more concerned with preempting or averting something from their own time which hadn't happened yet than the concerns of their ancestors would be original.
I have an idea seed along those lines I haven't done anything with yet. *double checks that this is the idea thread* May as well dump it here now. I was thinking of doing it as a sort of alternate history challenge

Some group at the writers discretion acquires the ability to send a banker's box of nonliving material to the past during the Cuban Missile Crisis. It arrives at the same location relative to Earth as it was sent. The presumed goal is to either prevent the development of nuclear weapons or ensure that the world does not devolve into competing ideological blocs or that all but one bloc is functionally extinct before nuclear weapons are developed.

For your selected group where and when do they send the package and what is in it. And how does the receiver react.

For a sample I got as far as thinking that the University of Tokyo would be interesting because if they can convince Emperor Hirohito and he can provide something that will convince his younger self (any natural or hand crafted object that can't be precisely duplicated in 1926 might possibly stand as proof) he is the most influential person I can think of before WWII who is alive in 1962. He might even be able to, since he is still considered divine in 1926, pass off a box of books and papers accompanied by a letter from his future self as divine intervention.

Then the question is what he does with some history texts worth of foreknowledge and probably information on as much near term technology as can be readily assembled and fits in the rest of the box.

Actually, this is kind of the opposite of what you were looking for. It's all about the concerns of the ancestors because the descendants can't go back themselves, only hope that the ancestors do what they expect with the information they send.
 

Bassoe

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Think of it like this, say we got an ISOT of americans from 2121. We ask them the obvious question of "can you please share technologies sufficient to let us defeat the corporatocracy" and are refused, with our descendants claiming we should be able to team up with our current enemies based upon our shared humanity against a greater enemy in the form of the tabbyistians or something.
 

TheRomanSlayer

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"Karl VIII Bonde Takes Over Kalmar Union"

In 1448, Karl Bonde had taken the Swedish throne after the death of Christopher of Bavaria, although Denmark elected Christian I Oldenburg as their king. Though he was on and off the Swedish throne, his erstwhile rule provided the basis for Swedish sovereignty, which in turn paved the way for Swedish independence from the Kalmar Union. Denmark would continue to fight Sweden to maintain the union, but the Stockholm Bloodbath ended any chances of the Kalmar Union surviving.

If Karl (Charles VIII) does end up taking over the Kalmar Union (say, an earlier death of Christian I Oldenburg or Christian has a different role instead), would Denmark still want to stay in said union, even if they have to put up with a Swedish King? Or would they try to launch their own War of Independence from the Swedish-dominated Kalmar Union?
 

Captain X

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Having been amused by the premise of some SJW revenge-fantasy comic, I'll put up a completely fantasy senario: What if in 2016, Q snapped his fingers and made all the race-grifters and feminists into white males? :devilish:
 

Buba

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"Karl VIII Bonde Takes Over Kalmar Union"
I keep on seeing King Blonde there ... :)

I am not sure if different personalities can keep the Kalmar Union going.
Nevertheless these can make a difference in overcoming centrifugal forces (see OTL France).
made all the race-grifters and feminists into white males?
Quite a few race-grifters and feminists are white males.
So add "cis het" to your list of "atrocities" :)

Speaking of revenge comics - I've seen "Adventures of Captain Foreskin" and his crusade against circumcision. Then he went woke and to Africa to fight against FGM.
 
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