Alternate History Ideas and Discussion

Buba

A total creep
Not sure about delivery system though.
There would be free fall bombs for the bombers. Should simplify matters :)
No idea if these bombs are included in the 2800-4200 total of "tactical warheads". That's the number and type given in the Ukrainian wiki - the Russian wiki quotes the number of 1700 total warheads, though.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Speaking of codes for the nukes - is it possible to write new ones in Ukraine and how long would it take?
I think,that scenario when they do not have codes is better - otherwise,we would have Ukraine stomping Germany and ruling world.And all Cumberstomps are BOORING.

When their army from 1991 could handle germans - and certainly do not agree to listen to Sralin.
Only question is,if they declare war on soviets,too.

But,they could replace soviets as Allies ally.Better for everybody.
And,when they finally write new ones,they would be important,but not world ruler important.

P.S soviets certainly had free fall boms for nukes in their arsenal,and about number of numbers - 2.800+ 4200+1700= 8.700.
divide per 3,and you have 2.900.
 

TheRejectionist

TheRejectionist
Do they also get a delivery mechanism? Because in 1945 they kind of lacked heavy bombers.
Not that they know of. The games looks like a spoof-ish version of Red Dawn
The only way in my opinion that the URSS could have the bomb BEFORE the Allies would be if they had discovered something EARLIER than the WAllies which would have made them JUMP ahead of the Atomic race and right now I can't come up HOW that could have happened. Maybe someone doesn't get PURGED by Stalin?
 

Buba

A total creep
The only way in my opinion that the URSS could have the bomb BEFORE the Allies would be
IMO the USSR - which, as we know, basically stole the whole tech - could get The Bomb earlier than the West only if the West go it later than in OTL. Thus either no Tube Alloys/Mahattan Project - or these programmes pursue the wrong ideas and/or are mismanaged and fail.
A Soviet programme plus whatever useful they get out of the German programme plus whatever useful they manage to steal from the UK/FRench/US programmes delivers a bomb c.1950-55 while the West is "almost there".
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Nuke for Trinity test is assembled in Los Alamos and something goes horribly wrong, killing many key personnel and destroying much crucial equipment, but also shaking American trust in stability of nuclear weapons. Thus the final stage of nuclear weapons program is being rebuilt, with efforts to figure out what went wrong and more safety measures greatly slowing down the rebuild, not finishing before the end of war, when cuts to defense budget greatly curtails the program, thereby it is not until the Soviets detonate their own device that the Americans are willing to clear the last hurdle.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
They can probably take western Europe and maybe launch preemptive nuclear attacks with bombers against American cities on the west coast, but their lack of a missile-based delivery system and bottleneck on manufacturing bombs are going to be their weaknesses. Likely this ends with a full-scale war between an alliance of America and American tributary state puppet governments-in-exile of various European countries currently ruled by the Soviets or soviet puppet goverments* vs the Soviets and Soviet Europe, ending once enough nuclear devastation has taken place to cause the collapse of both sides as functional nations.

* Including fascist Germany as par operation unthinkable.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
There is the videogame Freedom Fighters where this happens.

Yeah, but that was a video game mainly created for entertainment, rather than serious AH that’s well-researched and genuinely investigates what’s plausible and what’s not.

But if you want to contrive a similar scenario that’s well-thought out… then okay, sure. Until then, I’d say others’ input is much more useful than some video-game backstory is, which doesn’t stand on its own merits to me.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Controversial one: ‘USSR Gets The Atomic Bomb First’. :devilish:
Well,if USA do not start their program,but germans did ,and made A bomb just before soviet take it and german scientists...
Or,Japan.I once read that when official japaneese program was lacking,Navy had its own in Korea using thorium,and they almost did it.
So,make it true,and you have your soviet A bomb.Good in long term - soviets would start WW3,take Germany and part of France,and then get beaten.
Free world,including Poland.

Do they also get a delivery mechanism? Because in 1945 they kind of lacked heavy bombers.
The same,made soviet steal American bomber from germans.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Well,if USA do not start their program,but germans did ,and made A bomb just before soviet take it and german scientists...
Or,Japan.I once read that when official japaneese program was lacking,Navy had its own in Korea using thorium,and they almost did it.
So,make it true,and you have your soviet A bomb.Good in long term - soviets would start WW3,take Germany and part of France,and then get beaten.
Free world,including Poland.

Pretty sure the Reich never had a serious nuclear program, though. Apart from Nazi ideological rigidity retarding their contributions to science (e.g., snubbing atomic physics as "Jewish science"), I also heard they had maybe 60 scientists working on their nuclear program as something of a "side-show" that they never took seriously.

Now, ATL where a far less idiotic regime remained in power (such as Imperial Germany in a Central Powers victory), I can easily imagine Germany's long-running proficiency in science and innovation trundling along uninterrupted, without ideological know-nothings poisoning scientific research with their schizo bug-bears. Might also help not to drive away Jewish scientists (read: Albert Einstein) who pioneered atomic physics and their uses in the first place, which may require easing up all the anti-Semitism the OTL Nazis capitalized on.

Assuming that all happens, a victorious Imperial Germany getting the bomb first is a real possibility — though judging by how others got their hands on nuclear tech IOTL (despite the US's best efforts at preventing that), it won't be long before Germany's rivals reverse-engineer it and build bombs of their own. :oops:
 

ATP

Well-known member
Pretty sure the Reich never had a serious nuclear program, though. Apart from Nazi ideological rigidity retarding their contributions to science (e.g., snubbing atomic physics as "Jewish science"), I also heard they had maybe 60 scientists working on their nuclear program as something of a "side-show" that they never took seriously.

Now, ATL where a far less idiotic regime remained in power (such as Imperial Germany in a Central Powers victory), I can easily imagine Germany's long-running proficiency in science and innovation trundling along uninterrupted, without ideological know-nothings poisoning scientific research with their schizo bug-bears. Might also help not to drive away Jewish scientists (read: Albert Einstein) who pioneered atomic physics and their uses in the first place, which may require easing up all the anti-Semitism the OTL Nazis capitalized on.

Assuming that all happens, a victorious Imperial Germany getting the bomb first is a real possibility — though judging by how others got their hands on nuclear tech IOTL (despite the US's best efforts at preventing that), it won't be long before Germany's rivals reverse-engineer it and build bombs of their own. :oops:
Mostly true,but you forget,that Hitler spend money on whim.In OTL it was V2,but what if he choose instead atomic bomb and american bomber?
In that case,in 1945 soviets could capture it all.
Considering,that germans tend to made secret projects in East to avoid bombers,it would be either East germany or czech lands.
Both taken by soviets.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Mostly true,but you forget,that Hitler spend money on whim.In OTL it was V2,but what if he choose instead atomic bomb and american bomber?
In that case,in 1945 soviets could capture it all.
Considering,that germans tend to made secret projects in East to avoid bombers,it would be either East germany or czech lands.
Both taken by soviets.

Sure, Hitler definitely loved his big-ticket Wunderwaffe. And in rare cases, stuff like the V2 did have its uses, if mostly after the war rather than during it.

But again, I doubt the Nazis would've taken atomic physics (much less atomic weapons) seriously enough to beat everyone else to The Bomb, again due to their goofy aversion to the very "Jewish science" that made the Manhattan Project an astounding success in the first place.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Sure, Hitler definitely loved his big-ticket Wunderwaffe. And in rare cases, stuff like the V2 did have its uses, if mostly after the war rather than during it.

But again, I doubt the Nazis would've taken atomic physics (much less atomic weapons) seriously enough to beat everyone else to The Bomb, again due to their goofy aversion to the very "Jewish science" that made the Manhattan Project an astounding success in the first place.
True,but we told about scenario where soviets could get bomb before americans,and only way to made it true is either made german bomb,or japaneese bomb.
Becouse there is no possibility for soviet to get bomb first,if they stolen it from USA.

Hitler was big on occult - his favourite astrolog could say,that A bomb would gave him victory.Case solved !
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
‘Grover Cleveland Dies In His Secret Surgery’.

See here for proper context, as the state of surgery in 1893 probably means things could’ve gone much worse for such a critical operation.
 

49ersfootball

Well-known member
‘Grover Cleveland Dies In His Secret Surgery’.

See here for proper context, as the state of surgery in 1893 probably means things could’ve gone much worse for such a critical operation.
Who was Cleveland's 2nd VP? Would McKinley still win the Presidency in 1896 regardless ?
 

49ersfootball

Well-known member
Here are some What If Topics:
1.) No 22nd Amendment. Who would take advantage of this opportunity ?
2.) Cuomo survives strong challenge against Pataki in 1994. Who would the NY St GOPers turn to in 1998 ?
3.) Clements defeats Richards in 1990. Does Bush, Jr., still win in 1994 regardless ?
4.) Pinochet wins the 1988 Plebiscite & stays in power for another 8 years as Chilean President.
5.) Menem somehow wins 3rd term as President of Argentina in 2003.
6.) Military Junta stays in power in Brazil beyond 1980s & further.
 

gral

Well-known member
Here are some What If Topics:
1.) No 22nd Amendment. Who would take advantage of this opportunity ?
2.) Cuomo survives strong challenge against Pataki in 1994. Who would the NY St GOPers turn to in 1998 ?
3.) Clements defeats Richards in 1990. Does Bush, Jr., still win in 1994 regardless ?
4.) Pinochet wins the 1988 Plebiscite & stays in power for another 8 years as Chilean President.
5.) Menem somehow wins 3rd term as President of Argentina in 2003.
6.) Military Junta stays in power in Brazil beyond 1980s & further.
Number 6 not possible unless you change the economy a lot - from the First Oil Shock on, the Military Regime(it wasn't a Junta, except on its first days) was doomed, it was only a matter of time.
 

49ersfootball

Well-known member
Number 6 not possible unless you change the economy a lot - from the First Oil Shock on, the Military Regime(it wasn't a Junta, except on its first days) was doomed, it was only a matter of time.
Basically you're implying the Military Dictatorship was doomed regardless in Brazil ?
 

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