What if Alien Space Bats (who are visible and detectable to no one else) allow the British and French governments on January 1, 1939 to see everything that will happen in the next 7 years if they'll decide to go to war on Poland's behalf several months later? How exactly would this affect the Anglo-French decision-making process later on? Any thoughts on this, @sillygoose?
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What If? Alien Space Bats allow the British and French governments on January 1, 1939 to see the next 7 years if they'll decide to go to war on Poland's behalf
- Thread starter WolfBear
- Start date
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Shouldn't this be in AH?
In any case, the French might do a better job at stopping Hitler by beefing up their defenses and improving their tank doctrines.
Building some form of cheap anti-tank rifle or rocket like the panzerfausts would also be an option, as well as digging a bunch of anti-tank trenches and putting in mines would also be good, as well as providing some material support to Poland in the form of stuff that would enable the Poles to harass the occupying Germans and maybe even last longer, which would hopefully divert troops.
They should also focus on improving their combat aviation and air defenses.
The big problems of the French and the British were IIRC:
No modern combined arms doctrine like what Germany had.
Expecting that the Germans would once again go through Belgium and not through the Ardennes.
We will probably see better communication on the tank platoon and company levels, with tanks getting radios and field commanders having more initiative, but an year and a half IMHO might not be enough time for the Franko-British to improve tank and airplane design, maybe they can rush the Spitfire into production and train their militaries to do better combined arms and coordination, but it will IMHO be a very bloody battle with the best case scenario being that the Germans will get bogged down just before reaching Paris.
In any case, the French might do a better job at stopping Hitler by beefing up their defenses and improving their tank doctrines.
Building some form of cheap anti-tank rifle or rocket like the panzerfausts would also be an option, as well as digging a bunch of anti-tank trenches and putting in mines would also be good, as well as providing some material support to Poland in the form of stuff that would enable the Poles to harass the occupying Germans and maybe even last longer, which would hopefully divert troops.
They should also focus on improving their combat aviation and air defenses.
The big problems of the French and the British were IIRC:
No modern combined arms doctrine like what Germany had.
Expecting that the Germans would once again go through Belgium and not through the Ardennes.
We will probably see better communication on the tank platoon and company levels, with tanks getting radios and field commanders having more initiative, but an year and a half IMHO might not be enough time for the Franko-British to improve tank and airplane design, maybe they can rush the Spitfire into production and train their militaries to do better combined arms and coordination, but it will IMHO be a very bloody battle with the best case scenario being that the Germans will get bogged down just before reaching Paris.
France should either tell Poland to ally with Hitler against soviets,wait for war,and beat victor -
Or attack in 1939 for real.Germans really have nothing to stop them.
About AT rifle - they could just produce polish kb.Ur.
Enough for every german tank of that era.
In OTL they choosed most stupid choice which they could take.As if somebody wrote that as alternate story.
A second Miracle of the Marne?
Buba
A total creep
1 - the Entente went to war for its own reasons. Great Power politics. Poland was a useful pretext.
2 - the Entente goes to war in March '39 and the war is over before Christmass. They would know how bad the Heer was at that time. Even with the deep doodoo state of their militaries on 1.I.1939 in three months some state of combat capability should be reached. Naturally, the Franglos go to war with what they had in January - from order to delivery it takes several months - so anything ordered immediatelly after the brain ISOT will reach units by Summer Solstice soonest;
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True.Without Czech industry,germans would have 20 dywizions less.And they still do not have new Me-109E fighters which were real gamechanger.
True,but it would help them if France attacked then.
Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
I feel like if Britain knew going to war would end its empire that they would cynically just throw Poland and France under the bus.
Buba
A total creep
Fighting Germany - as there is no alternative to that, IMO - on their own would cost Britain even more. And fighting Germany on their own means Japan comes knocking, increasing the cost of business even more.
WWII directly cost Britain only India. But not making several OTL mistakes means that India in 1947 is an unpartitioned Dominion. I'm not sure how profitable India was for the UK by 1940. I've read that by 1940 the most profitable part of the Empire was ... South America. I.e. the UK's DFI there (and swapped at discount price for weapons with the US during WWII).
sillygoose
Well-known member
They'd probably avoid making commitments to Poland to avoid giving her cover to go to war and force her to negotiate, but caveat that any agreement would come with an Allied alliance with Poland to prevent any aggression after the borders were permanently set. Spend the next several years building up their militaries as a deterrent to further expansion of Germany and plan out how to bomb the Baku oil fields in case the MR Pact still happens. Also play hardball with the US regarding supplies, since it was clear that the FDR admin wanted to contain Germany, so the Europeans have leverage they can exploit to avoid becoming US vassals.
Buba
A total creep
Not allowing the Beast to grow is IMO a good idea.
If the Allies do not feel confident to go to war in III.39, then IX. is out, due to instant Polish collapse and - more importantly - weather (early and bad winter).
However, with and extra three quarters of mobilisation (from I.39) and knowledge of events (bottlenecks in production known and cleared, bad/dead-end designs avoided, hordes of NCOs trained before IX.39) come V.40 "the Sickle" is cut off, Baku bombed, and the Heer pushed back into Germany, the country being conquered in 1941.
Italy is not bullied as in OTL and Mussolini's ego stroked, thus with Fall Gelb failing there is no Italian Entry. Heck, unlike in OTL the orders of bombers from Italy for the RAF may be delivered
If the Allies do not feel confident to go to war in III.39, then IX. is out, due to instant Polish collapse and - more importantly - weather (early and bad winter).
However, with and extra three quarters of mobilisation (from I.39) and knowledge of events (bottlenecks in production known and cleared, bad/dead-end designs avoided, hordes of NCOs trained before IX.39) come V.40 "the Sickle" is cut off, Baku bombed, and the Heer pushed back into Germany, the country being conquered in 1941.
Italy is not bullied as in OTL and Mussolini's ego stroked, thus with Fall Gelb failing there is no Italian Entry. Heck, unlike in OTL the orders of bombers from Italy for the RAF may be delivered
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Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
Not allowing the Beast to grow is IMO a good idea.
If the Allies do not feel confident to go to war in III.39, then IX. is out, due to instant Polish collapse and - more importantly - weather (early and bad winter).
However, with and extra three quarters of mobilisation (from I.39) and knowledge of events (bottlenecks in production known and cleared, bad/dead-end designs avoided, hordes of NCOs trained before IX.39) come V.40 "the Sickle" is cut off, Baku bombed, and the Heer pushed back into Germany, the country being conquered in 1941.
Italy is not bullied as in OTL and Mussolini's ego stroked, thus with Fall Weiss failing there is no Italian Entry. Heck, unlike in OTL the orders of bombers from Italy for the RAF may be delivered
Seems like the British would be content with hanging back building up its military while letting the Germans and Soviets devastate each other, Whoever wins that conflict will likely be a spent force. It could possibly lead to a situation of a British led and dominated Europe.
Bad decision,soviet was stronger and take Europe eventually.Unless Hitler woud not only attack first,but also come as liberator and gave land to soviets in kolchozs.
If there is no war in Europe by 1940, then FDR likely does not acquire a third term in office. I've seen Gallup polling that showed that a Republican would win in 1940 if there was no war in Europe.
Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
That would of been a good thing, Most of the modern US problems started with his admin.
Then Hitler would start war between 1943 and 1945,as it was planned.And face republicans.Much better for everybody,i think.
sillygoose
Well-known member
Hitler expected a general war by 1942, not that he would be the one to start it. The Soviets were getting increasingly aggressive with their rhetoric and intelligence operations, while the Allies were getting more confrontational as was the US, so Hitler seems to have been of the mind that is when they'd face attack, hence the need to get Poland as an ally before that happened.
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sillygoose
Well-known member
Time favored the Allies, as they would have been able to build up more while German finanical issues would set them further behind the Germans in war preparations and make them more vulnerable to collapse due to blockade if the war started later.Not allowing the Beast to grow is IMO a good idea.
If the Allies do not feel confident to go to war in III.39, then IX. is out, due to instant Polish collapse and - more importantly - weather (early and bad winter).
However, with and extra three quarters of mobilisation (from I.39) and knowledge of events (bottlenecks in production known and cleared, bad/dead-end designs avoided, hordes of NCOs trained before IX.39) come V.40 "the Sickle" is cut off, Baku bombed, and the Heer pushed back into Germany, the country being conquered in 1941.
Italy is not bullied as in OTL and Mussolini's ego stroked, thus with Fall Gelb failing there is no Italian Entry. Heck, unlike in OTL the orders of bombers from Italy for the RAF may be delivered
And of course you could get a more isolationist Republican like Taft winning the 1940 GOP nomination instead of Willkie if there's no war in Europe by then, which would mean a more difficult time for Britain and France in getting US aid, most likely.