What If? A Magog World Ship against the following galaxies

[Agent23]

Not only do shields manipulate gravity, they are explicitly made OF gravity. A further defense against gravity weapons in Trek is the way in which Trek FTL works: subspace bubbles explicitly reduce the ship in question's mass and thus make gravity less of a force on the ship. Further, artificial singularities are not an OCP for any of the Trek faction's, seeing how one of the major factions, the Romulans, use them as their primary power source rather than M/AM reactors.

So yeah, shooting micro-black holes at things in Trek isn't nearly as good as it sounds.

Dude, Trek Warp and impulse tech work by manipulating subspace via trchnobabel, not gravity manipulation.

Do you have actual examples of Trek stopping singularity based weapons?

The Romulus had miniature singularities powering some of their ships, but no one ever used them as a weapon.

 

[S'task]

Dude, Trek Warp and impulse tech work by manipulating subspace via trchnobabel, not gravity manipulation.

*rolls eyes*

Subspace bubbles explicitly reduce the mass of things inside them. This was the entire way DS9 was moved from orbit of Bajor to the Wormhole in Emissary and also why Trek ships have such small impulse engines compared to what one would assume is required for the mass of the ships. That's what I was referring to.

Do you have actual examples of Trek stopping singularity based weapons?

No, because based on Trek tech nobody would use them as they'd be generally ineffect. For instance, a three microsingularities hit the NX-01 and dissipated harmlessly against its Polarized Hull Plating (the precursor technology to Shields and Structural Integrity Fields). Further, Trek ships have been shown to be capable of manipulating singularities via the Nav deflectors.

These weapons are not OCP for Trek, and overall are rather mundane for the setting.

 

[Agent23]

*rolls eyes*

Subspace bubbles explicitly reduce the mass of things inside them. This was the entire way DS9 was moved from orbit of Bajor to the Wormhole in Emissary and also why Trek ships have such small impulse engines compared to what one would assume is required for the mass of the ships. That's what I was referring to.


No, because based on Trek tech nobody would use them as they'd be generally ineffect. For instance, a three microsingularities hit the NX-01 and dissipated harmlessly against its Polarized Hull Plating (the precursor technology to Shields and Structural Integrity Fields). Further, Trek ships have been shown to be capable of manipulating singularities via the Nav deflectors.

These weapons are not OCP for Trek, and overall are rather mundane for the setting.

Yeah, sure oneshot Treknobabel.

Not buying it.

Andromeda tech does more or less the same mass manipulation that Trek does according to you.

Only better.

I will repeat, the Andromada verse and its tech are what Trek wants to be when it grows up.

Actually, it was what Roddenberry wanted Trek to be when it grew up.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Andromeda tech does more or less the same mass manipulation that Trek does according to you.

And do you have an example of this?

 

[Agent23]

And do you have an example of this?

Literally there on the wiki:

Slipstream Mechanics

A Gravity Field Generator drastically reduces the mass of the ship and then a slipstream drive opens a slippoint which the ship enters. The ship then catches onto the strings by means of slipstream runners. Once hooked onto the strings the pilot then navigates the series of slipstream "strings" until they reach the desired slippoint where they exit the slipstream.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Literally there on the wiki:

Thank you, I don't see why you couldn't simply post that to start with.

Now then, that would be evidence posses a form of mass reduction technology. However it does not mean, necessarily, they have it to the same degree let alone it being "better" as you argued. Are there examples of Rommie or other vessel from the franchise utilizing the Gravity Field Generators outside of slipspace similar to how the Federation could use their mass lightening to move DS9 or the Bre'el IV's moon?

 

[Agent23]

Thank you, I don't see why you couldn't simply post that to start with.

Now then, that would be evidence posses a form of mass reduction technology. However it does not mean, necessarily, they have it to the same degree let alone it being "better" as you argued. Are there examples of Rommie or other vessel from the franchise utilizing the Gravity Field Generators outside of slipspace similar to how the Federation could use their mass lightening to move DS9 or the Bre'el IV's moon?

It is orders of magnitude better, the Andromeda is a kilometers-long ship that can move at significant fractions of c.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Commonwealth seemed more advanced in many things. I saw the show a while back and while I didn't really retain much versus knowledge wise... because I'm not that sad... I always got the impression especially in the earlier seasons that Andromeda was more advanced than Star Trek.

The Commonwealth was an amalgamation of galaxies so Slipstream, despite being a bit more chancy, was the far superior FTL. The combat, at least in early seasons and in theory, seemed to be at levels above conventional Star Trek combat. As mentioned before with the massive missile barrages of 40 megatons each. But also how battles took place at distances of light minutes when it came to weapon ranges and mostly using drones and missiles and the like.

And of course things like having Nova Bombs as common during the era of the Commonwealth, the gravity field generators that made the near lightspeed travel widespread and possible, the stellar pulsars used to power ships and slipstreams, the commonplace use of genetic and bioengineering and general posthuman themes, widespread artificial intelligence, nanobots, and probably a lot of episodic technology I'm completely forgetting about.

The only drawback the Systems Commonwealth had that was clear (besides budget and writing) in regards to the Federation was the lack of FTL Communications in that the Systems Commonwealth didn't have any.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

It is orders of magnitude better, the Andromeda is a kilometers-long ship that can move at significant fractions of c.

The Enterprise-D is a good fraction of a kilometer in length and can also move at relativistic speed so there's little, if any difference, there.

Further wouldn't it make more sense to look at their respective masses rather than merely nose-cone length? From the wiki, if I'm reading it right, Rommie masses a little under 97,000 metric tons compared to Voyager's nearly 700,000 metric tons given in "Relativity", season 5 with the larger Enterprise-D likely weighing more.

 

[Scottty]

Did someone mention that the Andromeda-verse people do not have any form of FTL communication?

 

[Scottty]

The Enterprise-D is a good fraction of a kilometer in length and can also move at relativistic speed so there's little, if any difference, there.

Further wouldn't it make more sense to look at their respective masses rather than merely nose-cone length? From the wiki, if I'm reading it right, Rommie masses a little under 97,000 metric tons compared to Voyager's nearly 700,000 metric tons given in "Relativity", season 5 with the larger Enterprise-D likely weighing more.

Well, here's what the AA looks like - there's a lot of open space there.

 

[Sailor.X]

I think one thing that has not been brought up is the Remans have Thaleron weapons tech. That tech could kill any organic creature in the blast wave. So that might be used against the Worldship by the Romulans.

 

[Agent23]

The Enterprise-D is a good fraction of a kilometer in length and can also move at relativistic speed so there's little, if any difference, there.

Further wouldn't it make more sense to look at their respective masses rather than merely nose-cone length? From the wiki, if I'm reading it right, Rommie masses a little under 97,000 metric tons compared to Voyager's nearly 700,000 metric tons given in "Relativity", season 5 with the larger Enterprise-D likely weighing more.

Or, the Trek show runners can't into actual details and throw out random crap.
Andromeda's actual size;

Length:	4300m
Beam:	1000m
Draft:	950m

 

[Scottty]

Or, the Trek show runners can't into actual details and throw out random crap.
Andromeda's actual size;

Length:	4300m
Beam:	1000m
Draft:	950m

But most of that is empty space inside the beach-buggy rollbar stuff.

 

[Agent23]

I think one thing that has not been brought up is the Remans have Thaleron weapons tech. That tech could kill any organic creature in the blast wave. So that might be used against the Worldship by the Romulans.

The worldship is a bunch of Dyson rings around a small star.

And even then, I doubt it can kill the Abyss.

Also, those weapons were never used in any consistent manner, they are yet another piece of Treknobabel oneshot.

But most of that is empty space inside the beach-buggy rollbar stuff.

Stop insulting Best Ship!

 

[Scottty]

The worldship is a bunch of Dyson rings around a small star.

And even then, I doubt it can kill the Abyss.

Also, those weapons were never used in any consistent manner, they are yet another piece of Treknobabel oneshot.


Stop insulting Best Ship!

The OP does not actually include your waifu-ship in the scenario.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Speaking of which, the Omnipotents Versus Match is kinda boring asf IMHO. The Spirit of Abyss showed up rarely and intervened directly even less so.

Most of the time his presence was felt by destabilizing the galaxy (sorry galaxies) to soften the target and make it more ripe for delicious invasion. Like how the Vong did in Star Wars or Dominion did for Star Trek only the Magog did it over a span of centuries instead of decades and years respectively. And it was far more successful.

Technically the Magog are at a disadvantage since they've already been detected.

 

[Agent23]

Speaking of which, the Omnipotents Versus Match is kinda boring asf IMHO. The Spirit of Abyss showed up rarely and intervened directly even less so.

Most of the time his presence was felt by destabilizing the galaxy (sorry galaxies) to soften the target and make it more ripe for delicious invasion. Like how the Vong did in Star Wars or Dominion did for Star Trek only the Magog did it over a span of centuries instead of decades and years respectively. And it was far more successful.

Technically the Magog are at a disadvantage since they've already been detected.

Maybe because if it had been too direct the Avatars would have pounced on it.

The OP does not actually include your waifu-ship in the scenario.

It is humor.

In any case, Andromeda's consistent performance is better than Trek's consistent performance, in that it doesn't constantly pull out oneoffs out of its ass.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Or, the Trek show runners can't into actual details and throw out random crap.

Actually the 700,000 tons figure was also given for Voyager in the "Phage", season 1 and it is pretty similar to the "million gross tons" Scotty gives for the Enterprise in "Mudd's Women", season 1 so there is at least some consistency.

But I am willing to hear your evidence for how it is "random" and, presumably, inconsistent.

Andromeda's actual size;

And this from where? Statements in the series, writer's bible, another section of the wiki? And if so why the discrepancy? Are two figures given for her size? If so what makes these figures more real than the ones given by the wiki.

Further, even accepting the above numbers, unless you have a new mass value Rommie would still be the vastly "smaller" vessel in terms of mass, the point of our discussion. Which would suggest, in addition to them juri-rigging it to move stations and small moons, that the Federation has superior tech in mass reduction.

Also, those weapons were never used in any consistent manner, they are yet another piece of Treknobabel oneshot.

Even if that is the case as the OP I put no tech restrictions on any of the factions. If they are capable of building it they are capable of using it in this scenario with any plot shackles removed.

Speaking of which, the Omnipotents Versus Match is kinda boring asf IMHO. The Spirit of Abyss showed up rarely and intervened directly even less so.

I'd concur. Starting this I was more curious about how the various franchises would react and respond to the Magog. For instance would trillions of flesh-eating aliens who kill primarily in hand to hand combat prompt Starfleet to put a greater emphasis on non-starshp combat. Or how would this affect the Rebellion in the galaxy far, far away? I could see their support evaporating as star systems rally behind the Empire to repulse the intergalactic invaders completely changing the course of history.

 

[Agent23]

And this from where? Statements in the series, writer's bible, another section of the wiki? And if so why the discrepancy? Are two figures given for her size? If so what makes these figures more real than the ones given by the wiki.

I have heard the multi-kilometer size quote in several episodes, but do feel free to dig it up yourself.
The mass just means they have extremely advanced nano materials and armor that are very lightweight.

Further, even accepting the above numbers, unless you have a new mass value Rommie would still be the vastly "smaller" vessel in terms of mass, the point of our discussion. Which would suggest, in addition to them juri-rigging it to move stations and small moons, that the Federation has superior tech in mass reduction.

Yeah, sure, tell that to the huge-ass and super-maneuverable ship that the Consensus of Parts had, the worldship, too.

Even if that is the case as the OP I put no tech restrictions on any of the factions. If they are capable of building it they are capable of using it in this scenario with any plot shackles removed.

Yup, trek always mass produces its oneshot plotdevice tech <sarcasm>

I'd concur. Starting this I was more curious about how the various franchises would react and respond to the Magog. For instance would trillions of flesh-eating aliens who kill primarily in hand to hand combat prompt Starfleet to put a greater emphasis on non-starshp combat. Or how would this affect the Rebellion in the galaxy far, far away? I could see their support evaporating as star systems rally behind the Empire to repulse the intergalactic invaders completely changing the course of history.

Trek land warfare is a bad joke.