History 1914 Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand

[Aldarion]

Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, 28.6.1914.

On today’s day in 1914., Serb terrorist Gavrilo Princip murdered Austrian-Hungarian prince, archduke Franz Ferdinand. This shot helped spark the First World War, and thus laid the groundwork …

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On today’s day in 1914., Serb terrorist Gavrilo Princip murdered Austrian-Hungarian prince, archduke Franz Ferdinand. This shot helped spark the First World War, and thus laid the groundwork for the Communist dictatorship which is ruling the West today.

 

[Cherico]

Gavrilo Princip is proof that one man can really make a difference and why that isn't always a good thing.

 

[PsihoKekec]

He and his buddies were but a puppets, with that fucktard Apis being the puppeteer

 

[Buba]

Gavrilo Princip is proof that one man can really make a difference and why that isn't always a good thing.

Yes, Nicholas II not controlling his Government (the more terrorist faction of the Serb Gov't were assured of Russia's backing) and then supporting the early XXth century's equivalent of Kaddafi's Libya is indeed proof of this.

 

[Aldarion]

Yes, Nicholas II not controlling his Government (the more terrorist faction of the Serb Gov't were assured of Russia's backing) and then supporting the early XXth century's equivalent of Kaddafi's Libya is indeed proof of this.

In fact, none of the European royals wanted the war. World War I is used often as a proof of why monarchies are bad, but the fact is that the war only happened because monarchs were too weak. Had they been truly able to control their governments, there would have been no pan-European war.

EDIT: Realizing the above is actually what made me a monarchist to begin with. Though it didn't stop there...

 

[Buba]

the war only happened because monarchs were too weak.

And ironically it was the monarch with the most power who was the most culpable here ...
Not that Wilhelm or Karl Franz gave sterling performances either.
George does not count, in the UK the monarch was irrelevant.

 

[gral]

Gavrilo Princip is proof that one man can really make a difference and why that isn't always a good thing.

I've always found it... interesting... that Princip is seen as a hero in Serbia(when I visited Belgrade, the street behind the hotel I was staying in was named Ulitsa Gavrila Principa - Gavrilo Princip's Street; I also bought a Gavrilo Princip t-shirt, but that was because I always want to see who gets the joke and who thinks it's Che Guevara or other communist being depicted).

 

[PsihoKekec]

Now I got an idea of Che Guevara shirt, but with Gavrilo Princip face. Anyone good with Photoshop?

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

WW1 may have been avoided had they not delayed in invading Serbia, while popular opinion was in their favor. But they waited too long and emotions cooled, so when they finally did invade everyone else used that as an excuse for their cassus belli.

RIP the French. No one lost more in WW1 than the French. IIRC 1 out of every 3 fighting age man died. I've been interested in finding out how the loss of entire generations of men affected society and home life for countries like Paraguay, WW1 France, WW2 Russia, etc, but was never able to find good info on that.

This shot helped spark the First World War, and thus laid the groundwork for the Communist dictatorship which is ruling the West today.

It goes further back than that, to the French revolution, when you had the aristocratic elite trying to undermine and slander the king, and then set themselves up at the head of the populace and overthrew him so they could take power. Or perhaps even further than that, considering how wealthy Americans didn't want to pay taxes and wanted power, and used propaganda to slander the Crown (Parliament screwed up but that's another issue) so they could justify their power grab.

 

[Buba]

WW1 may have been avoided had they not delayed in invading Serbia, while popular opinion was in their favor.

Popular opinion was irrelevant.
It was Russia's ruling elite telling A-H "don't mess with my homie"* and France's ruling elite reassuring Russia that "I've got your back, buddy!" (the famous carte blanche).

* in spite of part of Serbia's govt - or at least "persons with close ties to government circles" - having murdered A-H's Heir.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Russia was actually not that keen on supporting Serbia over murder of royal, it took personal visit from the French PM to convince them to back them to the hilt.

 

[Buba]

Was that the PM or the Prez?
Not that relevant - what matters is that:
- the powers that be of France argued Russia to support a "rogue state"*
- Russia was supporting such a state to begin with

* wasn't Colonel Apis' qualification for a Gov't post the fact that during the 1903 coup he had personally killed the former Queen?

 

[PsihoKekec]

* wasn't Colonel Apis' qualification for a Gov't post the fact that during the 1903 coup he had personally killed the former Queen?

He was shot in the clash with palace guards (sadly survived), so it was his buddies who chopped up the royal couple (who were supposed to be arrested and sent into exile). This meant that the new king and government (usually Pašić) were in fear of the army and army leadership was in fear of the radical clique around Apis. To make everything worse both Pašić and Apis thought they had support of Russia, because Nicholas II was a weak willed fool, who never said no, so both faction which sought rapprochement with AH and Germany, and faction that sought confrontation. Thus you had foreign minister who urged Serbia not to poke AH and ambassador who fanned the flames instead (and then died at the AH embassy, couple of days after assassination). Pašić was also in a very weak position after the Balkan wars, barely avoiding coup by Apis (one of the few cases of Russians making up their mind) and was at the time focusing on the elections that could either revive his political power or bury him and bring radical idiots into power.

 

[Buba]

@PsihoKekec - thanks for the sordid details!

 

[ATP]

Popular opinion was irrelevant.
It was Russia's ruling elite telling A-H "don't mess with my homie"* and France's ruling elite reassuring Russia that "I've got your back, buddy!" (the famous carte blanche).

* in spite of part of Serbia's govt - or at least "persons with close ties to government circles" - having murdered A-H's Heir.

Not mention german ruling elites which lied to A-H that they would send bulk of their army to help them,when in reality they planned from the start to attack Belgium.
Which,if they just executed shieffen plan without changes,would really ended war in 1914 0r 1915.

Problem is - everybody wanted "short,victorious war"/except England,which elites wonted long bloody war foe everybody but them/

So,if prince would survive,somebody would find another excuse to start bloody mess.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Not mention german ruling elites which lied to A-H that they would send bulk of their army to help them,when in reality they planned from the start to attack Belgium.

Nope, the agreed plan was for Germany to attack the France and knock it out of the war, while AH keeps Russians occupied, then Germany shifts its forces eastward and AH can crush Serbia.
Hotzendorf fucked up and sent a good part of forces intended for Russian front to Serbia instead, making complete mess of deployments, enabling the Russians to defeat them in border battles, despite series of Russian blunders.

Which,if they just executed shieffen plan without changes would really ended war in 1914 0r 1915.

If they kept to the plan they would have lost the 1st and 2nd army, so you are probably correct that Entente could crush Germany by the end of 1915.

 

[Navarro]

Hotzendorf fucked up and sent a good part of forces intended for Russian front to Serbia instead, making complete mess of deployments, enabling the Russians to defeat them in border battles, despite series of Russian blunders.

Hotzendorf:

A. Assumed he had access to more troops than he had and they were better trained than they were.
B. Based his assessment of Russian mobilisation speed on railway timetables from the 1870s, ignoring intel to the contrary.
C. Altered the A-H mobilisation plan in the middle of mobilisation.

"Fucked up" is a massive understatement.

 

[ATP]

Hotzendorf:

A. Assumed he had access to more troops than he had and they were better trained than they were.
B. Based his assessment of Russian mobilisation speed on railway timetables from the 1870s, ignoring intel to the contrary.
C. Altered the A-H mobilisation plan in the middle of mobilisation.

"Fucked up" is a massive understatement.

all true - with addition,then he would be right about russian mobilisation - if tsar do not forbid drink both army and workers.
His fighting with drinking cost him war/Russia budget lost up to 30%/ ,but in short term it made mobilisation fast.

Another thing - i just read memories of polish aristocrat ,Hipolit Korwin-Milewski "70 lat wspomnień"/70 years of memories/ and he was sure that in 1914 russian general Rennenkampf betrayed Samsonow and let him die,becouse he was part of german faction which do not wonted Germany defeated.

In 1914 ,when Hindenburg was almost encircled with 16 dyvisions near Łódz city,he let him go,too.

Hipolit was also sure that Germany planned war long before attacking Belgium/he run from Germany when he read that Germany take gold from USA on 2 ships - in last train which manage to go.Germans still stealed his belongings,just like all people from higher class.

 

[Navarro]

Another thing - i just read memories of polish aristocrat ,Hipolit Korwin-Milewski "70 lat wspomnień"/70 years of memories/ and he was sure that in 1914 russian general Rennenkampf betrayed Samsonow and let him die,becouse he was part of german faction which do not wonted Germany defeated.

I'd heard that Rennenkampf and Samsonov hated each other and had actually had a physical altercation in the past.

 

[Buba]

i just read memories of polish aristocrat ,Hipolit Korwin-Milewski "70 lat wspomnień"/70 years of memories/

IMO strong vibes of urban legend and gossip.

As to Rennenkampf and Samsonov hating one another and "not working together well" - I'm fairly certain there were such examples in other armies of the period (there are many examples from the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars era). I'd say that such a problem exists since 2000BC or so