Carrot of Truth
War is Peace
Nope, But I would imagine the answer is comparable to what the US has for when the CIA tried to create a mind control program and got LSD instead.
Movies Starship Troopers: The bugs did nothing wrong
- Thread starter ThatZenoGuy
- Start date
Nope, But I would imagine the answer is comparable to what the US has for when the CIA tried to create a mind control program and got LSD instead.
No words at all, even though by the end of the film they succeed and can now mess with people's brains via psychics?
Crom's Black Blade
Well-known member
You see this is where your argument really loses me. If you just wanted to say "Director's intent was the Feds were the bad guys", fine. I could at least understand that. I wouldn't agree that's the only interpretation, again death of the author, but that would be internally consistent. But you seem to want to have your cake and eat it too.
Like if you argued the "verse" of Starship Troopers was just a propaganda movie that painted the humans as good guys to justify the out of universe war, that would be fine. Or if you wanted to point out inconsistencies with the world building or plot leading to conclusions not originally intended that would also be fine. But you want to only selectively analysis the film when it suits your purposes just like you flip-flop between hard minimalist to rampant speculation based entirely what suits your argument in that moment.
You hyper fixate on your disbelief the Arachnids have the capability to target other worlds as "proof" of your false flag, ignoring how that's not how proof works, while flat out refusing to acknowledge the plethora of evidence the Federation neither could nor would attempt such a level of deception over its citizens. You dismiss the Arachnids ability to colonize other worlds because they can only shoot' Their spoors into space" while ignore the context of that was in relation to human interstellar travel. You also ignore the fact their species has apparently been specifically evolving for millions of years in comparison to humanity meaning even if they were limited to STL speeds in a real world universe they likely could have colonized countless planets by the "present".
This is on top of shifting the burden of proof at every opportunity which is just annoying.
You are not interested in a serious discussion or alternative viewpoints to which I can only say one thing:
The Terran Federation did nothing wrong and I will fucking die on that hill.
That was beautiful! *Sheds manly tear*
Which really goes to show you how much Paul Verhoeven screwed the pooch and why @ThatZenoGuy argument amounts to "ignore everything in the film except what supports my position".
For "obvious" badguys, the Federation's actions are almost unanimously good. There's at least some level of representative government, some semblance of a free press ect to the point if they literally had done the same Starship Trooper film but replaced the Nazi/Soviet uniforms and imagery I don't think anyone would have remotely guessed the film was about facism.
I mean the director lived under the occupation of the Nazis in WW2, he evidently has issues with fascism and whatnot because he took a giant crap on the book with his film.
This is nonsense pilpul and I won't even bother with it. The bugs couldn't launch rocks at earth, ergo they didn't. So who else did? We all know who.
They still can't launch rocks across galaxies, and their extent of territory confirmed in film is three planets. You're welcome to show me a single other planet teeming with arachnids on screen.
Crom's Black Blade
Well-known member
Example One in why the Terran Federation did nothing wrong. The Arachnid Quarantine Zone. Upon encountering the Arachnid Empire, a hyper expansionist polity, what was Humanity's reaction? Did they send their fleets to scour the worlds barren of life? Deploy legions of Mobile Infantry equipped with tac nukes to vaporize every bug hole?
No, unlike the Bugs the human race is peaceful and desired nothing but peaceful coexistence and chose to set aside part of the galaxy for the Bugs to live in even forbidding by law its citizens to colonize planets within this established sphere of influence.
The Federation didn't even go onto a war footing with its ground forced being particularly anemic and reduce to peace time levels prompting the Mobile Infantry to go into battle at the onset of the Great Bug War with little more than a flak jacket and pellet gun with it being many years of grinding attrition and self-less sacrifice before the rousing war time industry could supply the Infantry with their own mobile power armor.
These peaceful overtures were of course ignored or worse used to embolden the hateful Bugs who launched a destructive, cowardly preemptive strike against a civilian city of little or no military importance. The Bugs simply wanted maximum humans killed in prelude to their war to exterminate mankind from the stars.
Unfortunately for Insect civilization however, humanity doesn't go down without a fight...
Legitimately effective propaganda, but still not factual.
Crom's Black Blade
Well-known member
Its based more on the film than your position. So yeah...
Simonbob
Well-known member
It's been a while since I saw the film.
But, I do remember the bugs having anti-starcraft plasma bugs, that could target, and destroy, warships at ranges we couldn't even come close to today.
Saying the bugs are hopeless primatives that the Feds beat up on doesn't make any sense. The sheer number of humans who die, the forced retreats, the problems they have to deal with, and the ultimate "win" of the film?
A brain bug, that's smart enough to feel fear. The only reason why that'd matter?
An enemy that doesn't feel, can't be stopped short of killing them all. One that can? You can talk to them, make peace.
The Federation did nothing wrong.
But, I do remember the bugs having anti-starcraft plasma bugs, that could target, and destroy, warships at ranges we couldn't even come close to today.
Saying the bugs are hopeless primatives that the Feds beat up on doesn't make any sense. The sheer number of humans who die, the forced retreats, the problems they have to deal with, and the ultimate "win" of the film?
A brain bug, that's smart enough to feel fear. The only reason why that'd matter?
An enemy that doesn't feel, can't be stopped short of killing them all. One that can? You can talk to them, make peace.
The Federation did nothing wrong.
I disagree.
The bugs have weapons that barely make it into high orbit, we have rocketry that outclasses their bugs by an order of magnitude. It also required mass WW2-flak-style bombardments which ships practically had to fly INTO to work. This was also on their home planet which had the highest concentration of plasma bugs.
Actually I think it was the ONLY location with plasma bugs.
You remember all of the battles take place on THEIR planet, right? Of course their leader caste is going to be afraid when random apes bust into their tunnels and drag them out in nets.
Crom's Black Blade
Well-known member
Really? You literally said "Something that belongs in the film" in relation to it.
The film being objective reality of the setting of course. By your own admittance, my take is more legit and factual to the verse than yours.
The bugs still did nothing wrong, pay attention to OP.
Additionally note how entire propaganda reels were somehow created within 2 minutes of the meteor hitting. Including people being AT the crater which would be inhospitable for at least a day.
Crom's Black Blade
Well-known member
Example two for why the Terran Federation did nothing wrong. Port Joe Smith.
A wildcat colony by Mormon extremists founded deep with the Arachnid Quarantine Zone. Seeking the freedom to worship their creator as they believed nearly 200 colonists of men, women and children sought out a new life on Dantana. Ignoring the Federation's warnings and attempt to hold up their one-sided peace with the Arachnid race. Through they took precautions sweeping the planet for signs of Arachnid infestation the colonists intentions were ultimately peaceful being opposed to what they viewed as rampant militarism of the Federation.
A grave mistake as they soon found out, shortly after arriving the vibrations of constructing Port Joe Smith awakened thousands of dormant eggs launched to the planet on spore missiles which soon began to hatch. Where upon did the Arachnids attempt to negotiate with the human settlers, ignorant of the Bugs presence on the planet, or give them time to correct their mistake and evacuate? No.
The first sign of the Arachnid presence was the opening of a bug hole from which poured throngs of warrior Arachnids who offered no quarter slaughtering the unarmed and pacificist Mormons who, rather than fighting back, attempted to seek shelter in their temple and pray. A choice that became their graves as the hideous Bugs poured through smashing through the walls of the outpost overrunning it and slaughtering all those trapped within.
173 civilians ultimately perished due to Arachnid actions that day for no other crime than merely existing.
No evidence bugs were ever even on that Dantana. We see one (1) arachnid leg in the background, and a bunch of conveniently placed corpses which oddly enough haven't been consumed or dragged away.
Somehow despite being on the planet long enough to build an entire compound they weren't attacked once, even though bugs attack on sight.
Now I wonder just who would be more than happy to kill them, for propaganda points...
I mean just how did they get footage of the corpses when the planet was swarming with bugs?
Crom's Black Blade
Well-known member
I do wonder if you've realized I've been mostly quoting from the wiki
Port Joe Smith
Again being truer to canon than anything you've done.
The OP premise and argument is invalid due to not being based on the film(s) in question
>Comic made after the first film
Irrelevant to OP, pay attention.
Pay attention please.
Crom's Black Blade
Well-known member
The comics are an official work and thus more canon than false flag theory which ignores 90% of the first film.
The OP premise and argument is invalid due to not being based on the film(s) in question and thus can, and should, be ignored.
We're referring to the first film as it released in theatres, pay attention please.
The bugs could not launch a meteor, and therefore did nothing wrong.
Crom's Black Blade
Well-known member
And nothing I said contradicted the first film. So once again I am more canon compliant than you.
If you wish to prove the bugs couldn't launch the meteor that's on you. Just like its on you to prove the Bugs weren't at Port joe Smith or they don't have an interstellar empire.
Or you know just write your own story about evil humans raping the peaceful bug people instead of trying to hijack another franchise.
Crom's Black Blade
Well-known member
Example 3 of Why the Terran Federation did nothing wrong. Buenos Aires.
Over eight millions men, women and children snuffed out in an instant in a cowardly attack by an inhuman enemy. No provocation, not attempts at negations. Instead the cold intelligence of the Arachnid Empire redirected a mammoth asteroid sending it hurtling towards Earth vaporizing the "Latin Paradise". A spiritual successor to the Pearl Harbor attacks in the distant past and just like such an undeclared war it was a day that would go down in infamy when humanity rose up with one voice saying we would not go quietly into the night, we would not surrender. That human civilization, not insect, would reign supreme in this titanic contest which divided an entire galaxy between freedom and crushing slavery.
And from the ashes came new found resiliency and a rallying cry:
"I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill them all!"