Hamas Launches Offensive Against Southern Israel

King Arts said:
It would suck most definitely oppression is not fun. But do we have to protect and defend every group that is being oppressed? What about the Kurds, or some other tribe. I have not argued that Israel should restrict itself, or let the Muslims win. Merely that the west should not get involved. I can support the west coming in to protect a group from getting wiped out, but I don’t want us to fight for the rights and freedom of everyone. People need to protect their freedom themselves.
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You didn't answer the question. What would happen in that scenario?
And you are trying to sit on the fence between basic universal responsibility to protect and kneejerk isolationism which is bad and worse.

Secondly, we are talking about foreign policy. The implied idea that we have to treat every group equally, by precedent, law, ethics or whatever, is so ridiculous it's a surprise to see it even lightly implied. Since the invention of diplomacy, it is the norm to have separate, different diplomatic relationship with "every tribe", and we weren't talking about some tribal group in Central Africa that no one without an anthropology degree or something won't even recognize by name, so keep it down with the "but do we have to protect absolutely every tribal group" red herrings.
And the west should get involved into anything the west has any interest in getting involved, which is quite likely in this specific case. We know history, no reason to have goldfish memory like isolationists demand, Arabs always were trouble for the west and they don't seem like they are very eager to change in that regard.
 
Marduk said:
You didn't answer the question. What would happen in that scenario?
And you are trying to sit on the fence between basic universal responsibility to protect and kneejerk isolationism which is bad and worse.

Secondly, we are talking about foreign policy. The implied idea that we have to treat every group equally, by precedent, law, ethics or whatever, is so ridiculous it's a surprise to see it even lightly implied. Since the invention of diplomacy, it is the norm to have separate, different diplomatic relationship with "every tribe", and we weren't talking about some tribal group in Central Africa that no one without an anthropology degree or something won't even recognize by name, so keep it down with the "but do we have to protect absolutely every tribal group" red herrings.
And the west should get involved into anything the west has any interest in getting involved, which is quite likely in this specific case. We know history, no reason to have goldfish memory like isolationists demand, Arabs always were trouble for the west and they don't seem like they are very eager to change in that regard.
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I did not dance around the issue I flat out said that if the Arabs won the Jews would be oppressed.
 
King Arts said:
I did not dance around the issue I flat out said that if the Arabs won the Jews would be oppressed.
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Which implies they would be alive to be oppressed.
Don't you think that's a bit of unrealistic optimism, especially in light of recent events?
Don't you think this would be closer to ISIL occupation than, say, Kurds in Turkey kind of oppression?
 
Marduk said:
Which implies they would be alive to be oppressed.
Don't you think that's a bit of unrealistic optimism, especially in light of recent events?
Don't you think this would be closer to ISIL occupation than, say, Kurds in Turkey kind of oppression?
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I won’t say it’s impossible because with the barbaric way Arabs fight it is possible. But I don’t think thinking otherwise is unrealistic optimism after all again Muslims have conquered Jews before and they lived oppressed as 2nd class citizens sure but alive.

Again you brought up something off topic earlier. Yes we do treat with different tribes different. But many are questioning if Israel is worth it as an ally. Now right 2 protect would drag us in if either side tries to wipe the other out, isolationism let’s us see other nations problems as their problems not ours.
 
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King Arts said:
I won’t say it’s impossible because with the barbaric way Arabs fight it is possible. But I don’t think thinking otherwise is unrealistic optimism after all again Muslims have conquered Jews before and they lived oppressed as 2nd class citizens sure but alive.
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Of course those who survived were not murdered, but we know some were. And that's before the Muslims were pissed off about Jews making own state in land that the Muslims conquered before.
King Arts said:
Again you brought up something off topic earlier. Yes we do treat with different tribes different. But many are questioning if Israel is worth it as an ally. Now right 2 protect would drag us in if either side tries to wipe the other out, isolationism let’s us see other nations problems as their problems not ours.
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No, anyone can ignore other nation problems, everyone, even biggest neocons, ignore some conflicts, no need isolationism for that. Isolationism means a bias for ignoring them even beyond own interests in doing so, which is dumb.
 
Lord Sovereign said:
Look out, we have badasses over here.

Are you actually saying you would personally walk up to these feckless teenagers who don’t actually mean you any harm, put the gun to their head as they cry, and pull the trigger?

If so, congratulations. You’re a monster.
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Man, I lived through the summer of 'mostly peaceful' riots, these people very much do mean you and me harm. They want to destroy your businesses, your homes, your livily hood your family and everything you love.
 
Grimalkin said:
1. I seriously fucking doubt that Putin would ever become a puppet. Puppets don't usually survive six assassination attempts, it's just a fucking alliance of common interests. I'll even spoonfeed you with a WW2 comparison, it's basically the same situation as Hitler had with Mussolini.

2. Orthodox Jews do care about the Old Testament and the Talmud is just their version of the New Testament. And yeah they don't believe in Jesus, what a fucking shocker, it's the sole fucking thing that differentiates them from Christians. Oh my fucking god, what an outrage it is that a jew doesn't believe in Jesus Christ as our saviour and Yahweh incarnate.

3. You're a fucking idiot, just because Iran is inferior right now doesn't mean that they're not fucking dangerous. If the U.S didn't have their allies in the middle east such as the Saudis and Israel then Iran would've become a much bigger threat.
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1.Mussolini become puppet in the end.Just like Putin now.And how do you knew that they try to kill him 6 times?

2.Talmud is not Old Testament,but book of tricks how avoid to follow Old Testament.
And they belive,that Jesus was sorcerer killed by jews who now burn in shit.
Which is another proof,that their current religion was created after Jesus death - otherwise,they would not mentioned HIM at all.
Their religion was created to fight Christians - which they did for most of their history.


3.Iran is muslim,thus would remain inferior no matter what happen,as long as they remain muslims.Maybe Turkey could be dangerous,but i doubt it.
 
Jormungandr said:
Or at least manslaughter charges with a $20,000 fine. Real consequences, enforced ones, will nip all this terrorism in the bud.

Also, the Palestinians are Hamas, and Hamas are the Palestinians. Just because Gaza is now regretting their life choices in being death cultist scum now that Israel is turning the Strip into a parking lot, doesn't absolve them or lend them any sympathy.

If the Palestinians were winning this little "war", there'd be no regrets from them.

Fuck Palastine.
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You apply this those few Christian as well? Actual infants and babies as well?
 
Grimalkin said:
3. You're a fucking idiot, just because Iran is inferior right now doesn't mean that they're not fucking dangerous. If the U.S didn't have their allies in the middle east such as the Saudis and Israel then Iran would've become a much bigger threat.
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That is debatable at best. To who is a danger? Tel Aviv's clique and their sponsors in AIPAC? Azerbaijan? Two countries that suck ass at best and are not exactly western friendly or ally of any kind.
 
TheRejectionist said:
That is debatable at best. To who is a danger? Tel Aviv's clique and their sponsors in AIPAC? Azerbaijan? Two countries that suck ass at best and are not exactly western friendly or ally of any kind.
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Also EU.
And Ukraine.
And USA, currently by terrorism and US forces and allies in ME, and possibly US mainland itself.
So finally stop shilling for the interests of Shia Islamism, you're not Shia, and they don't even like you.
 
TheRejectionist said:
You apply this those few Christian as well? Actual infants and babies as well?
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The only innocents (except for hostages and misguided visitors/aid workers) in Gaza are the children that haven't been indoctrinated yet, the ones that are young enough to be pulled out of that environment before the brainwashing becomes a permanent part of their psyche, and the very few outliers that exist in the Strip and Bank (which is less than, what, a few percent of the population?).

The rest support being death cultists, and they're only bitching and whining now because of buyer's remorse and Israel finally taking the gloves off and turning the Strip into a Parking Lot.

Anyway, in order to basically stop the children from becoming the next crop of Hamas death cultist fighters in less than a decade or so (remember, cartoons and schooling are all about Jew Killing/Hating, and teenage extracurricular clubs are basically militant training camps), you'd have to basically do the same, monstrous tactic the Canadians and Australians did in the 19th and 20th: Take the kids away from their families and raise them away from Palestine, its environment, and its culture.

Which, you know, is bad because it's cultural genocide/destroying cultural identity (on the one hand, that's wrong no matter how it's looked at; on the other hand, Palestinian culture is essentially a death cult at its core).

So, the choice is to leave the innocent kids where they are, even babies, to grow up to be Hamas death cultists, or to rip them away from their families and raise them differently, which in itself is, again, monstrous.

It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation because there is no chance for peace, any other type of solution, or a way for this to not end in bloodshed.

Why? Because the Palestinians won't accept anything but Israel being destroyed with every Jew either murdered or evicted (and, hilariously, they'll then try to take over other Arab nations, which'll fail and result in them being genocided because, newsflash, Islamic/Arabic nations don't have our morals in not wiping them out).

As for Christians living in the Strip or Bank? Frankly, if they haven't left by now or even support Hamas, they're fucking idiots. Zero sympathy.
 
Jormungandr said:
The only innocents (except for hostages and misguided visitors/aid workers) in Gaza are the children that haven't been indoctrinated yet, the ones that are young enough to be pulled out of that environment before the brainwashing becomes a permanent part of their psyche, and the very few outliers that exist in the Strip and Bank (which is less than, what, a few percent of the population?).

The rest support being death cultists, and they're only bitching and whining now because of buyer's remorse and Israel finally taking the gloves off and turning the Strip into a Parking Lot.

Anyway, in order to basically stop the children from becoming the next crop of Hamas death cultist fighters in less than a decade or so (remember, cartoons and schooling are all about Jew Killing/Hating, and teenage extracurricular clubs are basically militant training camps), you'd have to basically do the same, monstrous tactic the Canadians and Australians did in the 19th and 20th: Take the kids away from their families and raise them away from Palestine, its environment, and its culture.

Which, you know, is bad because it's cultural genocide/destroying cultural identity (on the one hand, that's wrong no matter how it's looked at; on the other hand, Palestinian culture is essentially a death cult at its core).

So, the choice is to leave the innocent kids where they are, even babies, to grow up to be Hamas death cultists, or to rip them away from their families and raise them differently, which in itself is, again, monstrous.

It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation because there is no chance for peace, any other type of solution, or a way for this to not end in bloodshed.

Why? Because the Palestinians won't accept anything but Israel being destroyed with every Jew either murdered or evicted (and, hilariously, they'll then try to take over other Arab nations, which'll fail and result in them being genocided because, newsflash, Islamic/Arabic nations don't have our morals in not wiping them out).

As for Christians living in the Strip or Bank? Frankly, if they haven't left by now or even support Hamas, they're fucking idiots. Zero sympathy.
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Yes leave your home that your family has lived in for 2000 years Christian man. Just go follow the economy, and try to become an illegal immigrate because getting to another country is hard.
 
I recently discovered,that Natanjahu compared palestinians to Amalek.
Here:

Considering that Amalek was people who was supposed to be genocided by King Saul,it mean,that at least in rhetoric Jzrael do not differ from Hamas - both pledge Holy war and killing all infidels.

Anoter proof,that it is not our war,and we should not intervene there.
 
King Arts said:
I did not dance around the issue I flat out said that if the Arabs won the Jews would be oppressed.
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Maybe genocided,too.
But,Natanjahu promise genocide to palestinians,so,at least in their worlds,he is as bad as Hamas.
Here:

Comparing somebody to Amalek mean,that somebody must be killed,including womans and children.
 
King Arts said:
Yes leave your home that your family has lived in for 2000 years Christian man. Just go follow the economy, and try to become an illegal immigrate because getting to another country is hard.
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Yes. Are they patriotic for some Christian state they will want to make there in some unspecific future with some unspecified people?
At least if they were a noble family with a grand estate they had for generations i would understand the dilemma, but pretty sure that's not a thing for them.
Also those houses on videos definitely don't look even nearly 2000 years old.
The fact is that the land is most likely going to be controlled by people who will begrudgingly tolerate them as second class citizens at best, and "we have ISIL at home" at worst, that's who their neighbors will be, that's who will they be paying taxes to, that's what their government will be.
I'd say making the family survive and preferably prosper is more important than some small piece of war torn land with little good prospects for the future where there will be at the mercy of barbarians indefinitely.
Is the land supposed to serve the family, or does the family serve the land (and considering Gaza geography generally that's gonna be a tiny piece of land)?
 
Lord Sovereign said:
Look out, we have badasses over here.

Are you actually saying you would personally walk up to these feckless teenagers who don’t actually mean you any harm, put the gun to their head as they cry, and pull the trigger?

If so, congratulations. You’re a monster.
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Nah, I'm not doing time for murder for those chumps and honestly a gun isn't fucking needed to disperse these cowards anyway.

Just open your trunk take out the tire iron or golf club and practice your swing on their knees or their ankles. All you really need to avoid is hitting them in the head.
 
King Arts said:
Yes leave your home that your family has lived in for 2000 years Christian man. Just go follow the economy, and try to become an illegal immigrate because getting to another country is hard.
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Citation needed on the Gazans having lived there for two thousand years.

And yes it is even more of a tragedy for the 5% of Gazans who don't support Hamas.
 
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Jormungandr said:
I'm pretty sure that all the missing hostages and abducted civilians, especially the women, have been raped, murdered, and dumped/burned now -- emphasis on the "raped and murdered" part.
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A mass grave containing 80 bodies was recently discovered in the courtyard of the Shifa hospital, two or three bodies have already been identified as hostages and the rest are being taken by IDF for further examination.

Ofc. "pro-Palestinians" online are claiming these are bodies of Palestinians being "stolen" by Israel for reasons ranging from being used for organs (impossible w/ how long they've been decaying) to creating golems.
 
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