Turkish-backed attack on Armenia by Azerbaijan with formal declaration of War

Marduk said:

Russians when a country loses a war:

Click to expand...

The Armenians will get to elect their regional governor, right? Right?

Azerbaijan seizing large stockpiles of military equipment and munitions from the surrendering Artsakh Forces.


Russian Peacekeepers are accompanying Azeri forces to verify the disarmament of Artsakh Forces.



Democratic Senator from Michigan Gary Powers is apparently in the area. He's requesting the "Aliyev Regime" allow international observers into the region still under a "brutal blockade."



International Red Cross and Russian Peacekeepers are delivering aid convoys into the region and evacuating medical casualties.

TLDR : The Prime Minister of Armenia managed to piss off everyone politically.

TheRejectionist said:

TLDR : The Prime Minister of Armenia managed to piss off everyone politically.

Click to expand...

It is quite more informative if you would add the context.

Patrick Lancaster
Independent (working for Russian state) Journalist
The very fact that people like him are made to be present there and are saying what they are saying has certain extra meaning in light of his... history and connections.
It means Russia is in fact taking the initiative to do some kind of psychological warfare stuff in favor of own interests there, if they are deploying mercenary propagandists specialized in addressing western audiences.

Marduk said:

It is quite more informative if you would add the context.

Patrick Lancaster
Independent (working for Russian state) Journalist
The very fact that people like him are made to be present there and are saying what they are saying has certain extra meaning in light of his... history and connections.
It means Russia is in fact taking the initiative to do some kind of psychological warfare stuff in favor of own interests there, if they are deploying mercenary propagandists specialized in addressing western audiences.

Click to expand...

Everyone is a propagandist to you....

Marduk said:

Russian state meddling in what it considers its sphere of influence, yeah, sure, i'm the conspiracy theorist here.

Click to expand...

You have a track record, one that can be summed into "Muh Russiiaaaa...!!!!"

What do they have to gain by meddling in this cluster fuck, exactly?

And I am saying this as someone who is actually pro-Azerbaijan in this conflict.(because I want Turkye to be overstretched further and become even less palatable to the west) and because I don't give a shit about Armenia.

Since we already spoke on this with @TheRejectionist

I will sum up my rationale.
Azerbaijan has:
1) 5x the armenian population and maybe 2-3x the territory.
3) Significant natural resources we want.
4) Is a larger potential market.
5) Someone we are becoming more dependent on for energy.


Armenia has:

1) Less of everything.
2) No strategic resources we want or need.
3) A fucking annoying diaspora that has produced some pushers of liberast nonsense.
4) Ararat Brandy is nice, but them getting a shellacking might lower the export price.

I want Turkey overstretched, I want it turned into a paryah among the west, so, I am fine rooting for the Azeri long distant cousins, after all both them and the Bulgars were turcic tribes.


But this is one clusterfuck I do not think Russia will want any part in, not since Iran and the Turks have something of a history, however the one problem is that they have treaty obligations with the Armenians due to the CSTO, so whatever happens it will be a loss of prestige for them.

TheRejectionist said:

Everyone is a propagandist to you....

Click to expand...

He does work for Russian state owned media and is unapologetically supporting Russian state agenda while doing so. If that doesn't make him a propagandist, i don't know how can someone be a propagandist at all.

Agent23 said:

You have a track record, one that can be summed into "Muh Russiiaaaa...!!!!"

Click to expand...

How convenient of you to bring up my track record, while not speaking a word about your own...

Agent23 said:

What do they have to gain by meddling in this cluster fuck, exactly?

And I am saying this as someone who is actually pro-Azerbaijan in this conflict.(because I want Turkye to be overstretched further and become even less palatable to the west) and because I don't give a shit about Armenia.

Since we already spoke on this with @TheRejectionist

I will sum up my rationale.
Azerbaijan has:
1) 5x the armenian population and maybe 2-3x the territory.
3) Significant natural resources we want.
4) Is a larger potential market.
5) Someone we are becoming more dependent on for energy.


Armenia has:

1) Less of everything.
2) No strategic resources we want or need.
3) A fucking annoying diaspora that has produced some pushers of liberast nonsense.
4) Ararat Brandy is nice, but them getting a shellacking might lower the export price.

I want Turkey overstretched, I want it turned into a paryah among the west, so, I am fine rooting for the Azeri long distant cousins, after all both them and the Bulgars were turcic tribes.

Click to expand...

The fucking annoying diaspora is an asset that can be exploited, for annoying western countries.
Controlling Armenia in general can also help in cloak and dagger ops with the whole Russian idea of driving a wedge between between the West and Turkey with its military, economical and geographical value, as you said you want, and let's not forget that Azeri energy deals with Europe directly compete with Russian ambitions in that area.
So yeah, all in line with your track record.

Agent23 said:

But this is one clusterfuck I do not think Russia will want any part in, not since Iran and the Turks have something of a history, however the one problem is that they have treaty obligations with the Armenians due to the CSTO, so whatever happens it will be a loss of prestige for them.

Click to expand...

In light of all the oil/gas extraction and route politics deals Azerbaijan and Turkey are involved in, and also recent close relations between Russia and Iran, there's no way Russia can afford to not take part in this clusterfuck, the only question is where exactly will Russia stand in this clusterfuck.

Russian Peacekeepers are in Stepanakert amid the mass evacuations taking place in the city. It's widely believed the Russians will depart when the Armenians by and large leave Artsakh. Estimated 120,000 ethnic Armenians resided in Artsakh at the time of the recent hostilities.









Miraculously electricity has been restored to the region after months of service interruptions.

Agent23 said:

Fine provide the "truth" from a NATO/USA paid reporter, then.

Click to expand...

State media of Lithuania represent.

Agent23 said:

At this point I am in favor in staying in the so called defensive alliance just to spite you, lol.
Besides, we might manage to use it to fuck with the Turks the way you wanna use it to fuck with Dem damned dirty Muskovite Johns.
When are you gonna stop hiding behind it and start fighting your own battles on your own?

Click to expand...

When Russia stops scheming with Germans behind our backs and you stop hiding behind Russia and start fighting your battles with Turks and Greeks and so on yourself, lawl, nothing's fair in love and war, if you don't like your enemies having alliances, tough luck.

The "so called defensive alliance" was made to contain Moscow's imperial ambitions and we don't require of it anything beyond sticking to its traditional goal, it's you who want to sabotage it for the sake of Balkan historical drama and against its main purpose.

Agent23 said:

Yup, because Ree, Putler is a mustache twirling villain that just randomly decides to do stuff one day cause he could not get it up.

Click to expand...

Not randomly, maliciously and with some forms of perceived overt or covert self-interest.

Agent23 said:

Yaay, anti-Russian chiwawa baltostani paid press.
I don't care about their copium and wishful thinking about pulling a small, land locked shithole devoid of anything useful.

An alliance we are in....

And also, I did say I would be happy to ally with Turkey against Greece earlier in the thread.

Click to expand...

While both Turkey and Greece are NATO members...

Agent23 said:

Hurr-durr.
Then it was about terrorism...
And it has always advertised itself as a mutual defensive alliance.
But ultimately it is just an ever expending bureaucracy.

Click to expand...

Unlike other bureaucracies, it's the countries that are not in it that whine the hardest about its expansion

Agent23 said:

And him getting into this mess in the middle now would help him...how...

Click to expand...

>getting into this mess
Implying Russia was not already in it since decades, as i said, aggressive amnesia is not considered the golden standard for foreign policy takes.
All sorts of serious publications consider this.

Agent23 said:

This is about Armenia vs. Azerbaijan, can you stop spamming the thread with your Russia obsession and NATO fetish and stay on topic, thanks!

Click to expand...

Agent23 said:

Yeah, yeah, Putler/Evil Ivans are behind everything, even when Sloppy Joe can't lift it when he is abusing another underage girl, we know!

Click to expand...

Choke on your own words. Also quite telling of how much you give a damn about what's relevant to the topic when Russian troops are officially, as peacekeepers, present on territory of both these countries, and one of them is in an alliance with Russia. But nope, don't mention Russia, totally nothing to do with the Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict, are you for real?

Agent23 said:

To summarize.
>Ree, muh Russia.

You are not providing anything actually useful to this discussion.
Just bitching about Dem evil Russkies.

Click to expand...

Opinion noted and into the trash it goes, did you have anything useful to add to the discussion or was it just you taking an opportunity to whine about me accusing saintly and innocent Russia who never does anything wrong of being involved in a conflict even though it has troops in the countries involved and everyone serious discusses how involved it is?

What the hell are Russian diplomats doing interjecting in the conflict in which they are totally not involved in and only Russia obsessed Polish conspiracy theorists think they have anything to do with?

I will grant Marduk argument a pass because of the point I expressed earlier :

TheRejectionist said:

I personally don't see these two "potential" truths cancelling each other out

Click to expand...

So far this indicates to be the case.

Husky_Khan said:

If your speculation is that Turkey and/or Azerbaijan can threaten Iran

Click to expand...

I don't think Turkey wants to threaten Iran unless given a good reason :


Turkey is the kinda of bully that threatens those smaller than him such as : Syria, Greece, Cyprus, Iraq, Armenia. But never someone bigger or as big as them like Iran and Russia.

Baku is the one more likely just for the shared hatred of Iran by them and their allies Israel. Just like some nutcases want a greater Israel. But very few Iranian Azeris want that or advocate for unification with Iran...because to a degree Baku is more pervasive than Tehran.
Not to mention I had met many Azeris from Iran that identify themselves as Iranian first and Azeri second. Most separatism I have seen came from either from the obvious groups : Kurds and Balochis.

@Husky_Khan What happened in NK has apparently exploded on the news even here in Italy, a country so far away from the Caucasus and a low Armenian diaspora and Azerbaijani expat community.
If I could share images there tons of news about how the Armenians are leaving already amid fearing the obvious considering it was reported that Azerbaijani troops couldn't even respect corpses of dead civilians.
Matter of fact there is speculation that the reason why a Russian convoy got shot at a few days ago was because they arrived at the site of a massacre and they witnessed what was happening and my speculation is the Azerbaijani soldiers and/or those who commanded understood that if word for out it was better risking killing Russian soldiers than a PR blunder at best.

Marduk said:

Opinion noted and into the trash it goes, did you have anything useful to add to the discussion or was it just you taking an opportunity to whine about me accusing saintly and innocent Russia who never does anything wrong of being involved in a conflict even though it has troops in the countries involved and everyone serious discusses how involved it is?

Russia protests to Armenia as tensions rise over disputed Caucasus region

Russia summoned the Armenian ambassador on Friday to present a protest about what it deemed "unfriendly steps" as tension in the South Caucasus surged over the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh.

www.reuters.com

Russia accuses Azerbaijan of violating ceasefire agreement with Armenia

Russia on Saturday accused Azerbaijan of violating the Moscow-brokered ceasefire that ended the 2020 war with Armenia, by letting its troops cross over the demarcation line.

www.france24.com

What the hell are Russian diplomats doing interjecting in the conflict in which they are totally not involved in and only Russia obsessed Polish conspiracy theorists think they have anything to do with?

Click to expand...

Since somebody decided to move the other post where I am responding to this nonsense and it is relevant to the subject.
International mediation is widely spread, and it is perfectly understandable why country A would not want a fight between country B and C that border it, especially if it has economic tirs with them.

No one else cares about the autistic spaghetti circlejerk y'all have going on...

Anyways... things are actually happening in Artsakh that are probably of more substantial interest.

There was a major gas explosion with casualties reported in the dozens if not hundreds, near Stepanakert.



Russian Peacekeepers are helping in treating many of the casualties.



Due to the blockade and other recent events there is still very limited medical supplies and capability within Artsakh plus evacuating casualties via the Lachin Corridor is rather problematic due to the hours long traffic jam recently reported there.

Husky_Khan said:

No one else cares about the autistic spaghetti circlejerk y'all have going on...

Anyways... things are actually happening in Artsakh that are probably of more substantial interest.

There was a major gas explosion with casualties reported in the dozens if not hundreds, near Stepanakert.



Russian Peacekeepers are helping in treating many of the casualties.



Due to the blockade and other recent events there is still very limited medical supplies and capability within Artsakh plus evacuating casualties via the Lachin Corridor is rather problematic due to the hours long traffic jam recently reported there.

Click to expand...

Am I alone in thinking history will see this as among the first shots of renewed Azeri and Armenian conflict?

So much for the “End of History”…again…

Lord Sovereign said:

Am I alone in thinking history will see this as among the first shots of renewed Azeri and Armenian conflict?

So much for the “End of History”…again…

Click to expand...

It could be nefarious but it could also be an accident. It's not like Artsakh was exactly the best place to live in the Caucasus due to recent events even predating the one day war that led to this cease fire.

Really too early to tell.

I'd express doubt of any aggression coming from the Armenian Government though. They're not in a place to engage in military provocations or retaliation unless absolutely necessary IMHO.

Lord Sovereign said:

Am I alone in thinking history will see this as among the first shots of renewed Azeri and Armenian conflict?

So much for the “End of History”…again…

Click to expand...

No one believes that shit, lol, even Fuckuyama backpedaled so hard you'd think it would solve the planter's energy needs.
In any case, it will depend on a few things, Azeri population in Armenia, Azeri stretrfic interests and I'd they think that some areas belong to them historically.
I don't think the want to conquer Armenia outright, too much effort for little benefit, but closing the gap between them and their exclave sounds like a very good idea.

TBH I would have gone for that right after.

At least twenty killed in the gas explosion with "hundreds" reportedly wounded. Armenian ambulances were still stopped by Azeri authorities however.




Russian Peacekeepers have also been using their helicopters to help in evacuating explosion casualties to Armenia.



Large amounts of traffic combined with the Azeri checkpoints means ten times longer traffic reportedly.





Azeri troops are fully occupying the first largely abandoned towns and cities in Nagorno-Karabakh since the cease fire. A statue to the 1990's Nagorno-Karabakh War Hero Monte Melkomyan was promptly dismantled in the town of Martuni.



Less then a week ago Martuni's Mayor Aznavur Saghyan was also reportedly killed during the brief hostilities.