They did. Which is admittedly further then I would go with it.
AI/Automation Megathread
- Thread starter Bear Ribs
- Start date
Well that’s not terrifying at all.
King Krávoka
An infection of Your universe.
I am so pissed to realize that we are never going to "make first contact" until someone has figured out how to create an artificial brain that won't break from its script. There is nothing to look forward to.
I have a better idea; don’t do ‘true’ artificial intelligence at all.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
No, they weren't. All the Butlerian Jihad did was make things far worse for most people; it created a massive slave cast who at best lived little better than beasts of burden, compared to the opulent lives of their oppressive rulers. And at worst? Let's just say I'd rather be ruled over by thinking machines than the Harkonnens.
Butlerian Jihad
"We must negate the machines-that-think. Humans must set their own guidelines. This is not something machines can do. Reasoning depends upon programming, not on hardware, and we are the ultimate program! Our Jihad is a "dump program." We dump the things which destroy us as humans!" ―...dune.fandom.com
These guys look ever more like they’re onto something.
Yinko
Well-known member
I couldn't find that article, nor anything that supported it, except for this video.
It's not saying the same thing, rather this is saying that the new GPT can intuitively use tools that it hasn't been trained on, and probably some other proofs as well, I haven't gotten that far into it yet.
As opposed to a bunch of Harkonnens with thinking machines at their beck and call?
And as I noted, I would not go quiet as far as the actual Jihad did. That said, ‘real’ artificial intelligence should be forbidden.
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Terthna
Professional Lurker
Why? What is your problem with 'real' artificial intelligence?
The problem in the Duneverse seems to be that they gave it totalitarian power over ordinary people's lives.
Having no AI at all was an extreme reaction against that.
That was the official story they told anyway. Nothing to do with the obvious fact that denying humanity the benefits of calculating machines meant that certain elite groups had extreme power over everyone else due to their monopoly on certain essential things. Nothing to see there, move along...
for all of its faults though humanity survived and thrived and spread among the stars, the species survived.
A thriving slave plantation is still not a good thing, no matter how high it's population.
Pretty sure when you have over a million star systems involved that how things actually work for the average person is more complicated then what brief glimses we got from the books.
Where do you get them having that many?
What I see in those books (the few I've read, anyway) looks to me like a civilization that would crumple like wet cardboard if it ever encountered the Klingon Empire - as just an example.
But a particularly relevant one, if you recall some events of Middle Eastern history...
I don’t trust it.
I don’t trust that we’d be able to control it. I don’t trust that such technology would not be designed or used to control, manipulate and otherwise be used against the general population by those in power. I don’t trust that some bright spark wouldn’t start cranking out battledroids- and either would create a army which we have no control over or one that can be co-opted to support an elite that doesn’t need many humans to stay in power forever, no matter what abuses they commit. I don’t trust that AI in general wouldn’t have a detrimental effect on a society already dumbed down and over-reliant on the managerial class.
Because I find the idea that we can create intelligent life equal or exceeding our own exceedingly arrogant. And I don’t think the people pushing for it have really thought through what their doing. They’re, to paraphrase the words of one fictional character, ‘so preoccupied with whether or not they can do it that they aren’t stopping to think if they should.’
And on top of it all, the idea that we can create AI is being used to push for stuff like brain uploading and the idea that people should turn themselves into cyborgs to stay ‘relevant’. Which is a whole other topic; but it’s a push that should not be pursued. And in the case of cyborgs, can be neatly avoided by not having artificial intelligence.
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Yinko
Well-known member
They had very few stressor events. Aside from the AI they had no real enemies except themselves, and they all had the same tech level. The final big bad of the book series is aliens that are better precogs than any human is, the only way to save humanity is to put them all in precog shielded ships and send them out to other galaxies at random.
It's kind of like saying that dodo-birds folded like cardboard before the might of the Dutch. True, but not for any fault of their own, they were never in a position where they needed to be any better. It's kind of like how complex civilization does not form in environments that are easy to live in, people are pretty lazy and if they don't see a problem then they won't solve it.
Typhonis
Well-known member
It was also why Leto had a breeding program. He was trying to create a humanity immune to precog.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Those are more issues with the people using the technology, rather than the technology itself; and they're not to go away even if we don't invent AI. Moreover, unless we somehow overcome them as a civilization, we're going to stagnate (if not utterly destroy ourselves and have to start over) long before we advance enough that true AI becomes possible; so ultimately your worries are moot.
Where is this from? I smell BS.
I mean, I don't think the guy is wrong that given all available data and no constraints, the bot would seem right wing. This is because leftism is built on lies and dishonesty, and the rejection of reality. But it also sounds like the whole story is BS.
Its two sides of the same coin and some of the stuff I brought up is based on technology. Also, the idea that technological progress is some how equal to avoiding 'stagnation' is laughably incorrect. Nevermind that same blind pursuit of progress landed the West in the mess it is now.