KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
right because it's totally about how brutal they are and not the fact that thier population is the size of one state.
A perfect example of why the electric chair is needed for some. (Arguments concerning criminal executions and methods)
- Thread starter Free-Stater 101
- Start date
right because it's totally about how brutal they are and not the fact that thier population is the size of one state.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
No, I am pointing to a particular solution and saying that it probably works based on its long and extensive usage.
You know who else likes nitrogen fertilizers?
Hitler, zomg, ban em now...!
Or some such shit.
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
That's how you end up with Eastern collectivist (and often totalitarian) cultures.
See Singapore.
Also Singapore is an extremely totalitarian and collectivist culture. Even if we could, why would we want to copy them?
Last edited:
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Yeah, that is why Heinlein advocated for flogging in SST.
I think thet we have the horseshoe situation.
Totalitarians like flogging because it works, rugged frontier individualistic types sdvocste for it cause it works, we just have the "middle ground" milk toast conformist sheep thst bleet agsinst it.The muh feelz anti-free renge socker mom Karen types and the puritanical, holier than thou preachers that like to ignore reality.
Oh, and btw, Asian collectivism has a lot more to do with genetics, population density, rice cultivation, geography and confucianism than it does with spankings and canings.
Last edited:
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
And it will be less likely they get socialized into the prison population, thus becoming hardened criminals and repeat offenders.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
In fairness, flogging is a savage punishment. A person's back is literally torn to shreds and never fully heals.
In terms of corporal punishment, I think a day or two in the stocks and a fine would suffice.
In terms of corporal punishment, I think a day or two in the stocks and a fine would suffice.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Not necessarily. Flogging is a rather broad term (outside British law where it was always very specifically a cat 'o nine tails) and there's a heck of a lot of difference between 300 lashes to the back with a bullwhip or flagellum (probably lethal) and ten strokes on the buttocks from a birch rod (Probably only leaves bruises and welts).
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Ah.
As a Briton, that might be where my misunderstanding comes from. Cat 'o nine tails can properly fuck you up.
King Arts
Well-known member
I mean the Anglo protestant people went full retard. If I remember correctly under the Mosaic law the maximum ammount of times you were allowed to punish someone by whipping is under 40 or 39 lashes. That's pretty reasonable and that's the max.
I mean again think of around a maximum of 40 ish. If we abolish prisons as a cost saving measure then we can have serious crimes like murder and rape be punished with death. But what about crimes that won't destroy someone's life? Like say sexual assualt. I'm talking about things that are serious but aren't actual penetration. Think a man groping a woman like the stereotype of Japanese perverts on the train, or someone who is a habitual criminal who steals and does other property crimes yet refuses to either work off the debt, or pay a fine. Maybe 10 or 20 lashes would be appropriate.
And putting someone in the stocks would be for minor crimes think public drunkenness, public disturbance, sexual harrassment(Saying words as opposed to touching).
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
Singaporean lashings causing permanent damage isn't exactly rare.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Better than the classic hand and head chopping and tongue and eye removal.
>Oh, but muh Caning and spanking are baad!
Relative to what?
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
Better than the classic hand and head chopping and tongue and eye removal.
>Oh, but muh Caning and spanking are baad!
Relative to what?
If someone steals $500 to make it to their next paycheck, caning has done nothing to fix the problem and has only made it worse.
If someone's done something truly bad, caning isn't enough.
If you were to ask me what should be done to criminals, I would advise forced education. You leaving your prison cell requires you completing some educational program. For thieves, force them to learn some sort of trade or skill. For drug dealers? Force them to complete an associates in nursing, with a focus on learning the negative side effects of drugs.
Additionally, for nonviolent criminals the focus should be on putting them under some form of house arrest whenever possible, rather than jail/prison. Having strict limits on where you're allowed to go and when is not far from being in prison, while being far more financially practical. Also, then you can dock a certain amount of someone's pay during their stay-at-home prison sentence... and if they can't work, they have to stay in an actual penitentiary.
Of course, you'd still need jails for actually violent criminals. Which are about half of them - but then again, you just cut America's prison population in half.
What you would end up doing is massively decreasing expenses while massively increasing revenues that can offset costs.
Punishments should only be punitive when there's no way to fix the underlying issue.
Poe
Well-known member
I kind of like this, but I'd add
If they murder, torture or rape just kill them.
Violent criminals (less than murder, rape or torture) should get ten years with no "good time" and they should be working 8 hours a day somewhere that turns a profit for the state. This money goes to pay for the pentitiary. Their last year is spent getting them back into society and the community. If they commit another violent crime, kill them.
If they murder, torture or rape just kill them.
Make sure they actually did it first there have been a lot of flase rape accusations
Poe
Well-known member
yeah for sure. I wasn't thinking "he raped me" type of stuff you hear about; more violent rapists whose guilt cannot be denied. I consider that torture and torture of humans should be punishable by death.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Really not comfortable with this idea. We've had way too many jails for profit turning out to be in bed with crooked judges to increase conviction rates and increase profits.
In general, when the state has a profit motive to abuse its citizens, that leads to bad places.
Poe
Well-known member
But if its A) publicly owned B) only for people who have been convicted by their peers of a very violent crime and C) the "profit" goes to the prison (with excess even going into education or as a Georgist style dividend) I don't think we'd have this problem. Especially since this is a one time thing, repeat violent offenders don't exist here.