Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Is that because of the time Armenia chose a pro west candidate?
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Turkish-backed attack on Armenia by Azerbaijan with formal declaration of War
- Thread starter Bacle
- Start date
If Russia sells out N-K, then Armenia will likely exit the Eurasian Economic Union. And Turkey can't join the EEU since it's already in a customs union with the EU. But is having Azerbaijan get N-K that important for Turkey? Azerbaijan already got the border territories of N-K as a result of its victory in its 2020 war, after all.
Another War Scare or Another War.
To be fair, though, it's not like N-K was easily defensible otherwise. At least, not without Great Power protection. And if one wants to be technical, one could perhaps argue that Armenia's support of N-K is itself a violation of international law because it's internationally recognized as Azerbaijani territory. Which shows that international law doesn't always comport with our own concepts of morality.
Armenians also became complacent. Someday proper history books maybe written aboot it but Azerbaijani Special Forces and Infantry were able to infiltrate N-K well before the planned invasion and when hostilities occurred, they played havoc in pinning down large numbers of Armenian troops in rear areas.
The Azeris also had to spend a lot of time cracking the N-K defensive lines until they found ways to breach them, which is why so much of the social media shows Azeri tanks and convoys getting caught in ambushes or the like. Even with the impressive performance of Azeri drones and the like it still took a while for them to penetrate and overcome the Armenian defenses... but they did.
And of course Azerbaijan does have several times the population... and economy size even without everything else.
That didn't help Russia in its current war with Ukraine. Not yet, at least.
Take a look at this map:
Without Great Power (Russian, Western, Chinese, and/or et cetera) protection, there's simply no way that N-K could actually be protected unless the border districts were also secured.
Seems to be more War then War Scare.
Armenis is already appealing to the UN Security Council and the CSTO over this attack on Armenia.
And yes, unlike the 2020 War this is an Attack on Armenia proper it seems with towns dozens of kilometers deep in Armenian territory being struck.
One would assume an Attack like this should be enough to invoke the CSTO where an Attack on one is an Attack on All. Along with Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan are also members.
Armenia has already admitted dozens of casualties. There's reports of heavy artillery shelling, use of drones and many other offensive actions including Azeri assaults into Armenian territory.
Armenis is already appealing to the UN Security Council and the CSTO over this attack on Armenia.
And yes, unlike the 2020 War this is an Attack on Armenia proper it seems with towns dozens of kilometers deep in Armenian territory being struck.
One would assume an Attack like this should be enough to invoke the CSTO where an Attack on one is an Attack on All. Along with Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan are also members.
Armenia has already admitted dozens of casualties. There's reports of heavy artillery shelling, use of drones and many other offensive actions including Azeri assaults into Armenian territory.
TheRejectionist
TheRejectionist
Does Azerbaijan wants to conclude Turkey's unfinished genocide business I take ?
Yeah. Nagorno-Karabakh is largely recognized as Azeri territory. And in 2020 the Azeris basically ensured that was the case. Fine.
But this seems to be basically the similar form of aggression Russia perpetrated on Ukraine and Georgia. Not exactly the same and it's not black and white but, and depending on what Azerbaijan's intentions on this are, Azerbaijan is in the wrong here IMHO. They're striking what is clearly Armenian territory and the justifications I've seen so far haven't merited such a disproportionate response.
But I can see why Azerbaijan is doing this. It's the best time for them to do so. Armenia is in Russia's camp and Russia is distracted by Ukraine. Europe wants Azeri oil and trans-Caspian pipelines including ones proposed from Kazakhstan are planned on going through Azeri territory. Armenia's only other ally is Iran and they're a pariah state. Georgia is firmly opposed to Russia thanks to the 2008 War. Turkey and Israel are supportive of Azerbaijan. It's the best time for Azerbaijan to pursue it's interests regardless of merit or morality.
But this seems to be basically the similar form of aggression Russia perpetrated on Ukraine and Georgia. Not exactly the same and it's not black and white but, and depending on what Azerbaijan's intentions on this are, Azerbaijan is in the wrong here IMHO. They're striking what is clearly Armenian territory and the justifications I've seen so far haven't merited such a disproportionate response.
But I can see why Azerbaijan is doing this. It's the best time for them to do so. Armenia is in Russia's camp and Russia is distracted by Ukraine. Europe wants Azeri oil and trans-Caspian pipelines including ones proposed from Kazakhstan are planned on going through Azeri territory. Armenia's only other ally is Iran and they're a pariah state. Georgia is firmly opposed to Russia thanks to the 2008 War. Turkey and Israel are supportive of Azerbaijan. It's the best time for Azerbaijan to pursue it's interests regardless of merit or morality.
It's certainly unlikely that Russia is going to kick loose forces to go have a war somewhere ELSE right now.
Very sad what's happening to Armenia.
It's quite interesting, though, that this isn't the first time that Armenians got burned as a result of their association with Russia. In the 1910s, Russia tried using Armenians as pawns against the Ottoman Empire, which in turn fueled Ottoman paranoia against the Armenians and which in turn led to the Armenian Genocide. Over a century later, Armenia is likewise suffering as a result of Russia's foolish adventures, albeit in Ukraine rather than in the Caucasus. Maybe Armenia should simply seek a modus vivendi with Azerbaijan and Turkey? And abandon Russia for the West?
Looks like there might be a tentative cease fire in place.
But this isn't the first cease fire announced since this all started not too long ago in fact. But hopefully it can be maintained. CSTO had a meeting about it and are planning on sending a Commission to the area to help de-escalate.
There were a fair number of drone strikes shown up on Social Media again.
Allegations that Azeri Drones took out Armenian S-125 and S-300 Air Defense Systems.
Political leaders from countries as diverse as Iran and the United States have asked the Azeris to stand down, Iran stating that it wouldn't accept any changes to the internationally recognized borders of the two countries.
But this isn't the first cease fire announced since this all started not too long ago in fact. But hopefully it can be maintained. CSTO had a meeting about it and are planning on sending a Commission to the area to help de-escalate.
There were a fair number of drone strikes shown up on Social Media again.
Allegations that Azeri Drones took out Armenian S-125 and S-300 Air Defense Systems.
Political leaders from countries as diverse as Iran and the United States have asked the Azeris to stand down, Iran stating that it wouldn't accept any changes to the internationally recognized borders of the two countries.
What about N-K?
They seem to be referring to the borders between Armenia and Azerbaijan.
The Azeris AFAIK actually haven't even struck the Armenian enclave in Nagorno-Karabakh recently, just along the Azeri-Armenian border.
What do the Azeris want? A land corridor to their enclave west of Armenia?
BTW, off-topic, but it's interesting that many US states, primarily liberal ones, have already recognized N-K:
Looks like this cease fire failed as well. They're back to fighting again.
Apparently even the Russian Peacekeepers Came Under Azeri Fire.
Apparently even the Russian Peacekeepers Came Under Azeri Fire.