LGBT and the US Conservative Movement

Yeah, when that happened last, we were lobotomised and castrated in mass by the state, because hated, legal things usually don't stay that way. They get banned or accepted unless there are protections against majority rule for the hated thing.

As for it being a fetish, it just fails to meet the definition, and it is also immutable past a young age, unlike fetishes. Also, unlike fetishes, it's immediately obvious: two men living together long term, and none dating women, it's a pretty big tipoff. A foot fetish, in contrast, can be enjoyed in just the home. This is also why gays were hunted down by the government, while people indulging in a foot fetish weren't.

Finally, unless you believe in using force to keep gays down, there is no option of keeping it quiet. This was a deliberate and strategic choice on the part of the LGBT movement (especially during the AIDS movement, but Harvey Milk was also apart of this) to be out and proud, and now it's basically unchangeable, as no new group will have any incentive to go back in the closet (unless you use legal force). This puts the rest of civilization in a dilemma as we aren't ignorable, so you can love us or hate us. But since in every cohort of American society there's a chance your kid will be gay, the hatred doesn't last.
Remember when gays just wanted the right to not be executed, or arrested for the crime of sodomy? Pepridge farm remembers, then later do you remember when gays just wanted the right to be able to live their lives without being insulted or abused by random persons? Pepridge farm remembers. Then came the argument about gay marriage vs civil partnership compromise, then it was no only gay marriage anything else is seperate but equal, then it's you have to publically support it otherwise you are a Nazi. And now we are adding in transgenders. Anyway with your last sentence what does the fact that someone's child could be gay have to do with anything? I mean just because someone's child could be something they dislike doesen't mean they would support it, I mean look at Islamic nations your child could be a heretic, or an atheist, or apostate yet those nations are still theocracies. Your child could be a drug dealer that doesen't mean you will support selling drugs since a loved one might be involved. Your child might be a pedophile it doesen't mean someone is going to preemtively support pedophilla just in case their child ends up growing to be that.

Well, I would agree that having fetish parades isn’t necessary, and pretty vulgar too. I can see why there is a difference, though, between the political movement associated with homosexuality and an equivalent one for (to continue with the example we have been using) a foot fetish.

One thing is that historically, people could engage in a foot fetish without much fear of punishment. If some couple were already sexually active, if they added that to their activities nobody would know and likely nobody would care. I’ve never heard of anybody getting put in prison or executed for engaging in a foot fetish. Gay people, on the other hand, have been severely punished just in living memory even in relatively liberal Western nations. Alan Turing, for example, was chemically castrated for being gay, despite his contributions to science, mathematics, and the British war effort: how is that for a thank you? There are people still alive who have likely been subjected to harsh punishments for being gay even in the USA or Western Europe. Considering that, I could see how there could be a different attitude about homosexuality than most other sexual proclivities.

Additionally, man with a foot fetish could historically get together with a woman with a foot fetish and enjoy their foot fetishy life together, complete with a full legally recognized marriage. Gay people in the last few decades, after legal punishments ended, could not get married or have the associated advantages of that. At least until gay marriage recently was legalized. That issue isn’t as important as ending punishments for gays, but I could still see it as a cause that gay people would reasonably advocate for.
Foot fetish was the example Doom gave. I think a better example is having a preference for Asians, or blacks, or whites. It's not technically a medical/psychological fetish but it's used as such in the public vernacular when people say someone has jungle fever, or yellow fever they say it is a fetish. You could use the same. People have a right to be with a person of their racial preference because they are attracted to those features, just like a man can have a preference towards masculine features and find them attractive. Also both can't be hidden two men living together is obvious, so is a man who only dates a certain group. Both can be defended by saying people have a right to live with whoever makes them happy as long as it's legal. That doesen't mean that having a preference for blondes, or red heads or in the case of gays their own sex is some sacrosanct thing. It's their preference.
 
They only kicked the NAMBLA out when the normies notice. That is why the NAMBLA still got money from them until congress passed a bill about it in 91. To butcher a phrase, the fact that congress had to act in order to stop the financial relationship is proof that the gay rights movement does not put their money where your mouth says they are.
That's not how the law worked. Congress literally can't pass such a law, as disgusting as they are, they aren't an illegal group. What actually happened was there was a group of groups called the International Lesbian and Gay Association. This group gave no money out to anyone. It basically did nothing useful until it managed to get UN consultive status. Because it was created in 1978, NAMBLA was the first US member, and then they kicked them out in 1994 after the US made a law that it wouldn't support the UN until no organization that had pedophiles in it was part of the UN.

Now does the ILGA actually do anything, or is known for doing anything outside of somehow representing gay groups in the UN (another useless organization)? No. They are completely useless and had no affect on the gay rights movement. So pretending that gay groups that actually mattered liked pedophilia, or even dealt with it, is just wrong.


What happened was this: A largely useless group, the
Remember when gays just wanted the right to not be executed, or arrested for the crime of sodomy? Pepridge farm remembers, then later do you remember when gays just wanted the right to be able to live their lives without being insulted or abused by random persons? Pepridge farm remembers. Then came the argument about gay marriage vs civil partnership compromise, then it was no only gay marriage anything else is seperate but equal, then it's you have to publically support it otherwise you are a Nazi. And now we are adding in transgenders.
You do know how civil rights movements work right? They start with small things, then work there way up. You might as well be saying "Remember when blacks just wanted to not be enslaved?" Obviously, we started with small things and moved forward from there. There was no way in hell it was going to be stopped unless it was put down hard, just like any civil rights movement. Either near-total equality like we have now (not of outcome, but of opportunity), or total domination. Every civil rights movement will have one of the two outcomes.

Anyway with your last sentence what does the fact that someone's child could be gay have to do with anything? I mean just because someone's child could be something they dislike doesen't mean they would support it, I mean look at Islamic nations your child could be a heretic, or an atheist, or apostate yet those nations are still theocracies. Your child could be a drug dealer that doesen't mean you will support selling drugs since a loved one might be involved. Your child might be a pedophile it doesen't mean someone is going to preemtively support pedophilla just in case their child ends up growing to be that.
When someone has a kid that is gay, it's much more difficult to other gays in general. It can be done, but it is an order of magnitude more difficult than to other a different ethnicity or religion, which can be kept at arms length.
 
Transgender people have been part of the LGBT movement from the very start, so the repeated claims that transgender rights are some new and unprecedented escalation are simply counterfactual. Indeed, transgender activism substantially predates the modern Western gay rights movement.
 
Transgender people have been part of the LGBT movement from the very start, so the repeated claims that transgender rights are some new and unprecedented escalation are simply counterfactual. Indeed, transgender activism substantially predates the modern Western gay rights movement.

This is like when you claimed three spirits were transgender when it was just a roll in red man society 377906135971397634.png


You don't so much defend the open wound on the front-groomer brigade as flail and regurgitate Salon articles.

That's not how the law worked. Congress literally can't pass such a law, as disgusting as they are, they aren't an illegal group. What actually happened was there was a group of groups called the International Lesbian and Gay Association.

they're a group that advocates for child rape, teaches people how to rape and groom children and how to cover it up.

NAMBLA is a terrorist organization..They're a literal rape brigade and they should have been WACO'd fifty times over by now.
 
they're a group that advocates for child rape, teaches people how to rape and groom children and how to cover it up.

NAMBLA is a terrorist organization..They're a literal rape brigade and they should have been WACO'd fifty times over by now.
Oh, I agree they are disgusting. But you are allowed to advocate for evil in the US. The Klan, NAMBLA, and Islamist teachers (especially them, they get religious protection too) all get away with this.

The rule is that unless it is a call for imminent lawless action and is likely to succeed, advocacy for use of force is legal. As long as it's kept theoretical, you are fine. Also, discussing committing specific crimes can fall under conspiracy and related things which is illegal (think planning out a bank robbery). There's also true threats. Sadly, NAMBLA specifically knew this, and danced around the rules saying they only wanted to change the law.

Fortunately, having member rolls was quite stupid, and most also had child porn, so they did actually help catch pedos in the long run.

This is like when you claimed three spirits were transgender when it was just a roll in society
377906135971397634.png
377906135971397634.png



You don't so much defend the front hole-groomer brigade as flail and regurgitate Salon articles.
No, @ShadowArxxy is very right here. There were definitely trans people in the early gay rights movement (though it isn't true that one started the stonewall riots, that was a lesbian). Sylvia Rivera for example was a prominent activist. Up until very recently, trans rights were the most minor part of LGBT stuff because you don't need much in terms of law, you just need to pass or get close enough, then live your life.

The issue is that it is now easy to claim to be trans without transitioning, and it gets one moved all the way up the intersectionality podium. It's a simple social problem: low cost, high reward actions are taken frequently, despite both long term consequences and morality. On top of this, the signs of being trans are being uncomfortable with your body. Guess who's uncomfortable with their body? Every teenager.

So it's important to separate people who suffer from dysphoria (actual trans people) from the rest. Actual trans people did very useful stuff for the LGBT movement. The others are trying to set it back decades.
 
Oh, I agree they are disgusting. But you are allowed to advocate for evil in the US. The Klan, NAMBLA, and Islamist teachers (especially them, they get religious protection too) all get away with this.

Yes but every incarnation of the Klan was hunted down by the military minus the current one specifically because of their actions which eventually became criminal and terroristic.

NAMBLA has long ago crossed into criminal conduct town.

]The rule is that unless it is a call for imminent lawless action and is likely to succeed, advocacy for use of force is legal. As long as it's kept theoretical, you are fine. Also, discussing committing specific crimes can fall under conspiracy and related things which is illegal (think planning out a bank robbery). There's also true threats. Sadly, NAMBLA specifically knew this, and danced around the rules saying they only wanted to change the law.

I don't agree there, they got up to some truly fucked up shit that was indisputably criminal. Plus didn't they have a connection to Jim Jones through Harvey Milk? Or am I thinking of another demented circus act?

No, @ShadowArxxy is very right here. There were definitely trans people in the early gay rights movement (though it isn't true that one started the stonewall riots, that was a lesbian). Sylvia Rivera for example was a prominent activist. Up until very recently, trans rights were the most minor part of LGBT stuff because you don't need much in terms of law, you just need to pass or get close enough, then live your life.

No you misread me...I'm saying I'm with the old school Gay righties who said Troons have no business being in the movement because mental illness being associated with the LGB movement was expressly what they fought against.

So it's important to separate people who suffer from dysphoria (actual trans people) from the rest. Actual trans people did very useful stuff for the LGBT movement. The others are trying to set it back decades.

People who suffer from dysphoria are neurologically disabled and not of an orientaiton.

What they have is an affliction, what you are is definitely not that.
 
. There were definitely trans people in the early gay rights movement (though it isn't true that one started the stonewall riots, that was a lesbian). Sylvia Rivera for example was a prominent activist. Up until very recently, trans rights were the most minor part of LGBT stuff because you don't need much in terms of law, you just need to pass or get close enough, then live your life.

On the contrary, trans rights have been historically de-emphasized within the Western LGBT movement primarily because they were actively pushed out by more politically influential upper class gay men. The "biggest" modern examples would be the decades-long exclusion of trans people from even basic civil rights protections in New York State, and the ENDA debacle of 2007.
 
The "biggest" modern examples would be the decades-long exclusion of trans people from even basic civil rights protections in New York State, and the ENDA debacle of 2007.
Saying “even basic civil rights protections” makes it sound like Trans people are being thrown into gulags or something. You mean that it wasn’t illegal to discriminate against Trans people.
 
On the contrary, trans rights have been historically de-emphasized within the Western LGBT movement primarily because they were actively pushed out by more politically influential upper class gay men. The "biggest" modern examples would be the decades-long exclusion of trans people from even basic civil rights protections in New York State, and the ENDA debacle of 2007.

Trannies have civil rights protections...,..the same as everyone else.

Trannies wanna be a superclass, protected above all others. Wanting to subjugate normal people, forcefully take children from their homes and to use emotional and professional blackmail to essentially force lesbians to have sex with them doesn't make them victims of discrimination fighting for their freedom.

It makes them violent bigots who want state sanctioned rape.
 
Yeah, the “rights” demanded by the T part of LGBT go way beyond those that the LGB part have traditionally fought for. Not wanting to get arrested and severely punished for consensual sexual activity is a worthy goal, and wanting gay marriage isn’t unreasonable either.

But when we get to what Trans people consider their rights, we go totally off the rails. Boys going into girls’ locker rooms, men going into women’s prisons, men competing against women in the Olympics, giving pre-pubescent children hormone blockers, mutiliating the genitals of minors, forcing the entire world to pretend the emperor has clothes on. It’s not just about rights, it’s about forcing the world to conform to their own delusions.

Even non-discrimination is nuts. Imagine you own a daycare center and a non-passing MTF transsexual wants a job. It’s a 6’4” guy with broad shoulders, beard stubble, wearing a dress who wants a job. Is it wise to hire them when you’re hoping that parents come in and hand off their children to this person?
 
Yeah, the “rights” demanded by the T part of LGBT go way beyond those that the LGB part have traditionally fought for. Not wanting to get arrested and severely punished for consensual sexual activity is a worthy goal, and wanting gay marriage isn’t unreasonable either.

But when we get to what Trans people consider their rights, we go totally off the rails. Boys going into girls’ locker rooms, men going into women’s prisons, men competing against women in the Olympics, giving pre-pubescent children hormone blockers, mutiliating the genitals of minors, forcing the entire world to pretend the emperor has clothes on. It’s not just about rights, it’s about forcing the world to conform to their own delusions.

I want to point out, that the ritualized mutilation of the genitalia of children and impaired people for political or ceremonial purposes has been recognized as an atrocity since the 1890's. That people who believed in eugenics and social Darwinism still had enough sense to see SRS for the horror that it is and we're celebrating it while fellating ourselves about how sophisticated and evolved we are is not only tragic, but infuriating.

Even non-discrimination is nuts. Imagine you own a daycare center and a non-passing MTF transsexual wants a job. It’s a 6’4” guy with broad shoulders, beard stubble, wearing a dress who wants a job. Is it wise to hire them when you’re hoping that parents come in and hand off their children to this person?

Given hormone therapy caused psychosis is a thing? I legitimately don't think its safe to let even passing trans people near kids.

I've several daughters, I'd pull them from their school and pray the trans person doesn't end up raping one of the kids..which they..sadly often do.
 
Remember when gays just wanted the right to not be executed, or arrested for the crime of sodomy? Pepridge farm remembers, then later do you remember when gays just wanted the right to be able to live their lives without being insulted or abused by random persons? Pepridge farm remembers.
:rolleyes: How very dare they...
 
Saying “even basic civil rights protections” makes it sound like Trans people are being thrown into gulags or something. You mean that it wasn’t illegal to discriminate against Trans people.

No, I mean that trans people did not gain the same civil rights that gay people did.
 
How about not being able to be kicked out of your apartment or get fired from your job because they find out you're trans?
 
How about not being able to be kicked out of your apartment or get fired from your job because they find out you're trans?

Lol they shouldn't be allowed to lie about what they are for medical reasons, that's a liability issue and their hormone therapy and eventual organ failure and mental problems are a cost that is passed onto the other employees.

You wanna mangle yourself then take hormone therapy that's dangerous even when you're injecting your body with hormones it's supposed to have? Then you need to be prepared to hear that employees and landlords may not want to deal with the risks and implications of that.
 
How about not being able to be kicked out of your apartment or get fired from your job because they find out you're trans?
Now what you say sounds reasonable on the face of it. People shouldn’t be kicked out of their homes for personal choices that don’t affect others. But how much do you know about trans people and their surgeries. You can read stories online about the are just makes a sound that leaks puss and smells like rotting flesh b cause spoiler alert an inverted penis is not a vagina. Now if your neighbor in an apartment caused a disgusting smell because their puss wound that they have to dilate and that has hairballs INSIDE it would that not limit your enjoyment of your own house? Your ability to live a peaceful comfortable life? Note I’m not going to be talking about the other mental issues trans people frequently have. Just the physical, and by the way you can look up the horror stories of srs surgeries online read stories about poor women whose husbands have decided to become trans.
 
How about not being able to be kicked out of your apartment or get fired from your job because they find out you're trans?
As in many of such issues, its far more complicated than it seems. Certainly there are few cases in which people do that just out of pure antipathy and disgust towards transgender people.
But equally certainly there are also many more gray area cases. Like people that do it because of more or less accurate stereotypes of risks involved in dealing with such people. Say, in case of apartments, its fairly well known, and in some areas probably very accurate too, that there is a disproportionate risk that the trans tenant to be is going to lead unusually vivacious lifestyle of some kind that will get the neighbors to complain or call the cops all the time.
Perhaps not. But the owner is aware of the risk and may be willing to take it... or perhaps have another, less risky tenant available. Or worse yet, rumors or warning signs of this kind of problems are already out there. Or just simply its one of those non-passing trans cases that's just gonna make the neighbors uncomfortable, which may also impact the owner and his business in a meaningful way.

And speaking of that, this is an even more of a potential issue in workplaces. A lot of them have dress and grooming codes, sometimes quite strict, and sometimes for a good reason. They consider it absolutely unacceptable to look like a freak. Many won't even allow you to look like a perfectly average working class t-shirt+jeans dude. Nevermind, say, a member of metalhead subculture walking around the office and dealing with customers with unkempt long hair, three day stubble, wearing an unzipped black leather jacket presenting some suitably edgy band shirt.
Why is that so? These workplaces are very much insistent on "professional" corporate look, yadda yadda, and especially about not making customers and coworkers uncomfortable by workers looking like freaks, such rules sometimes being strict to quite extreme and hard to justify degrees.
On the other hand, the T lobby argues that there should be an exception to the "no looking like a freak" rules (formal or informal) for their social group, so that even the worst cases of "IT'S MA'AM!" should be immune from this kind of scrutiny, regardless of the practical effect they threaten to have on perceptions of the business, likely to far worse degree than the abovementioned metalhead.
Is this fairness? Is this justice? Why should some identities be more important than others, as in, protected? And why should these be the alphabet soup ones and not others?
That goes into the appropriateness of the whole concept of "protected classes" and "protected characteristics", which in hindsight perhaps aren't a good idea at all.

Of course the lobby for said identity would, at least at first, use the least controversial examples to push their case, but as their political influence rises and broadly worded laws are introduced, suddenly it turns out that these protections will also be used, or you could say abused, by the gray area cases, and if feeling secure enough, the lobby will stand behind them too, and claim that the laws protecting these is a feature, not a bug that prompts for exceptions to the laws.
 

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