Xenomorphs as part of an ecology

[Urabrask Revealed]

We all know, love, and fear one of horror-movie's most known creatures, the Xenomorph.

It has been stated often that an uncontrolled xenomorph infestation spells the doom of any given world, because said aliens end up consuming the ecology to fuel the growth of their hive. But what if the ecology of a world is so hardy, so deadly, or plain strange that a Xenomorph-colony can do little more than occupy a ecological niche and survive that way?

Can you think of any examples? I got two ecologies where they might end up settling an ecological niche:

1. The world of Monster Hunter, where the vast majority of creatures are dinosaurs, dragons, or both. Surviving alone, yet alone creating a hive would be a a challenge for the xenomorph, but doable.

2. Catachan, the gold standard by which all Death Worlds in Warhammer 40k are measured. Everything on the planet, flora and fauna, is ridiculously aggressive and hostile to other lifeforms. Even the catachans themselves are very dangerous, and well-equipped and -trained to fight off enemies. I believe they are nevertheless capable of establishing a hive, even if it's going to face hard times.

Anyone else got ideas of worlds where they become part of the ecology?

 

[Bear Ribs]

Dungeons and Dragons, any edition though I tend to remember 3.5. A Xenomorph is going to wind up maybe a CR5-ish monster I'd say, a severe threat to a random little hamlet but vs. an actual adventurer team, much less any actual serious monster of high level, the Xenomorphs won't last long. Their biology is actually less screwy than some of the other CR5 stuff (Bearded Devils and Ochre Jellies, f'rex). Fighter players will bitch about yet another monster that hoses them by dissolving their weapons, while the wizard once again gets to win with a spell, without risk or loss.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Dungeons and Dragons, any edition though I tend to remember 3.5. A Xenomorph is going to wind up maybe a CR5-ish monster I'd say, a severe threat to a random little hamlet but vs. an actual adventurer team, much less any actual serious monster of high level, the Xenomorphs won't last long. Their biology is actually less screwy than some of the other CR5 stuff (Bearded Devils and Ochre Jellies, f'rex). Fighter players will bitch about yet another monster that hoses them by dissolving their weapons, while the wizard once again gets to win with a spell, without risk or loss.

Dumb fighters bitch about that. Smart firghters retreat then ambush the acid monster. In a way which does not allow them to use thier acid. Thus saving thier equipment for example. Baiting the xenimorph (s) into a narrow cannon shouldn't be to hard. Then trap them with rock slides and shoot them down. Form outside thier range with bows/crossbows. Also have a reserve of bouldbers to rain down on them. When and if they attempt to climb out dead aliens with no acid damage. Fighters are meant to be experienced professional soldiers not beat sticks. They should absolutely be cognizant of tactics and strategy. Frankly the only time a fighter should ever enter a fight without a plan and pre set advantage. Is if he literally has no way to retreat or time to make plans. Anyone who doesn't play fighters that way isn't playing the class how it was meant to be played. Which is why fighters get a bad rap not because the class is bad. Rather because most don't have any idea what a soldier is or does. So they just run the charecter as a straight tank. Instead of actually playing a trained vetran soldier (aka a fighter). Apologies for the derail folks not knowing how to play and downing fighters. Is a pet peeves of mine as I prefer to play them in general.

 

[Scottty]

In order for them to not multiply out of control, something has to be keeping their numbers down. What sort of critter would consider one of those to be a tasty snack?

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

In order for them to not multiply out of control, something has to be keeping their numbers down. What sort of critter would consider one of those to be a tasty snack?

Good question. A predator that picks them as prey would need an acid-resistant body and the ability to crack hardened silicone.
Either that, or they recognize the xenomorphs as a dangerous species they can't quite wipe out.

Take, ugh, Pandora from Avatar for example. I don't think the local animals are capable of wiping said xenomorphs out.

 

[Scottty]

Good question. A predator that picks them as prey would need an acid-resistant body and the ability to crack hardened silicone.

Carbosilicate Amorphs come to mind.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Carbosilicate Amorphs come to mind.

Yeah, but these are civilized beings.

 

[Scottty]

Yeah, but these are civilized beings.

Do you mean "sentient"? Because that's not the same thing as "civilized".
They're part of the ecosystem of a post-apocalyptic world. The Bradicor civilization collapsed, but some of their organic data-storage systems mutated to become the free-living Amorphs.

Amorphs can east almost literally anything - they take the concept of "omnivore" to a whole new level.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Do you mean "sentient"? Because that's not the same thing as "civilized".
They're part of the ecosystem of a post-apocalyptic world. The Bradicor civilization collapsed, but some of their organic data-storage systems mutated to become the free-living Amorphs.

Amorphs can east almost literally anything - they take the concept of "omnivore" to a whole new level.

Ah, I presumed since Schlock is capable of coorporating and existing with other beings, his species is civilized.
But yes, I meant sentient.

 

[Bear Ribs]

In order for them to not multiply out of control, something has to be keeping their numbers down. What sort of critter would consider one of those to be a tasty snack?

Well in the DnD example Copper Dragons completely no-sell acid and also favor crunchy arthropods like as their favorite food. I can absolutely see them seeking out Xenomorphs for a delicious treat.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Yes Plus Copper Dragons might enjoy feasting on Xenomorphs. Love that spicy food.

Black Dragons might be even more of a threat though, residing in swampy and fetid and often dismal places. Their could be a lot of cross habitation between the two.

Acid resistance and immunity though is pretty rare though compared to cold or fire or poison etc. Outside of extraplanar types like Slaad, fiends or Loths and higher undead (spectral like ghosts and banshees) there aren't many "natural" threats to them.

Spirit Trolls would be ironic counters.

Plus im sure acid resistance metals and the like will be forced more for weapons and armor

 

[Husky_Khan]

Oh I did just recall something. Xenomorphs would be quite a pesky disturbance in the Underdark... or dark areas in general. For a lot of Dungeons and Dragons, infravision is usually a pretty literal term as in most of the species and critters that reside in the Underdark or Dark in general can see the body heat emanating from other creatures out to so many feet. So Drow, Goblinoids, Dwarfs, Elves and Gnomes and their offshoots would still have trouble seeing the xenomorphs... at least by their body heat I'm assuming since they didn't show up on the Colonial Marine scanners either.

Which doesn't meant they're helpless of course, lots of them can use light magic or sight or sense enhancement abilities and folks like the Drow and Deep Gnomes used their ears as much as their eyes and engaged in blind fighting and the like. But still... a bit of a worry.

Illithids/Mind Flayers and Myconids others who use darkvision/low light vision or other forms of sensory perception might not be as mitigated though.

However in 5th edition and prior editions I think DnD moved from infravision to darkvision… so ultimately... it could not be as big a deal. Though again... darkvision isn't nearly as effective since you basically see everything as shades of gray. Which runs contrary to a lot of DnD 'novel' and lore stuff where infravision was often detailed for folks like the Drow.

It's interesting to wonder how effective Illithid mind control/charm abilities would be upon xenomorphs as well or their Queen or if they'd be too powerful/alien to reliably control. Also Beholders would probably be pretty decent counters to Xenomorphs... being that they can for the most part fly and hover and thus avoid all of those nasty claws unless they get pounced upon from above (similarly Drow who have the innate ability to levitate could help with threat mitigation).

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

snip

I like the idea of a drow city having to deal with a Xenomorph infection. How would they go about cleaning it out, what difficulties aside from the obvious (acid blood, no/little heat signature) would they have?

 

[Bear Ribs]

Hmm, Xenomorphs could wipe out a smaller Drow settlement but the larger ones would be resistant, though they'd take losses.

Xenomorphs have the problem that they're very vulnerable at several stages of there lives, the eggs and facehuggers are easily destroyed by anybody unless an adult or queen is guarding them all the time. Further the Xenomorphs can hide decently but can't infiltrate well, they've got zero possibility of disguises and rely entirely on stealth, against a race known for extreme levels of deceit, trickery, and spying on each other.

Now Drow, they're extremely paranoid and organized into houses that constantly try to murder each other. Each house is pretty much equipped with it's own army, castle, and holdings and they jealously guard these. So the Xenomorphs might easily destroy a single location from within, but they aren't going to easily cross into another house's territory without getting spotted. This sharply limits their options. In the "open" to the degree that the Underdark has this, Drow can levitate, a huge percentage are various shades of caster who can fly, and many of them have spider-themed items to cling to walls. The Xenomorphs will not find it easy to cling to the ceiling and or lay ambushes because the Drow already think in terms of 3D strategy and a Drow who doesn't constantly look for such things is a Drow who got eaten by a Cloaker when she was four.

In combating the Xenomorphs the Drow's Melee-Magthere trained attackers are obviously a no-go (further proof of the uselessness of males of course). The Drow reliance on hand crossbows and ranged weapons might kinda help but I doubt a hand crossbow will do much to a Xenomorph unless it's seriously magic'd up. The Priestesses and Sorcerers on the other hand are going to be murder (Smart Priestesses will not being using their snake-whips though). Since the Xenomorphs have basically jack to defend against it I expect lots of scry-and-die tactics if they aren't nesting in an already-shielded location, ie. inside an existing great house's fortress.

Clearing out a fully-destroyed house's fortress will be a complete bitch. It'll be designed to hose enemy Drow from step 1, loaded with traps, and probably filled with anti-magic to the gills. I'd expect orc and goblin slaves to be sent in as sacrificial lambs to draw the Xenomorph's attention, followed by a rain of fireballs, lightning bolts, and assorted magic nastiness once the Xenomorphs reveal themselves. It would, of course, be more efficient to use summons instead of wasting good slaves so the Drow won't use summons except in battle. They may try to starve the Xenomorphs out but I think Drow generally don't take to sieges and are more likely to try to act aggressively.

I've never been completely clear if Xenomorphs are sentient or not. If they're truly intelligent the Drow might use psionics and mind control to enslave them. If they're animal intelligence they could do the same via control animal spells and druidic magic but there aren't many Drow druids. Either way I can see Xenomorphs soon being a popular choice in gladiatorial games and possibly as very dangerous guard animals. Cheap too, just throw a facehugger at some worthless male you don't need and boom! Valuable creature to use. It even works on Goblin and Orc males which are even more worthless than Drow males. Eventually we may see Xenomorphs burst out of giants to produce humongous versions as mounts.

 

[S'task]

Well in the DnD example Copper Dragons completely no-sell acid and also favor crunchy arthropods like as their favorite food. I can absolutely see them seeking out Xenomorphs for a delicious treat.

In most editions of DnD Copper Dragons are also good aligned, and given how Xenomorphs reproduce and prey on sapient species through fear and the like, they might go a step BEYOND just finding them tasty snacks to actively seeking them out and destroying them. And then turning the remains into a puppet which they have do a little dance through the middle of town to amuse and scare the locals, kinda like this:


Oh, right, I probably should have mentioned that Copper Dragons are CHAOTIC Good, and are noted for enjoying practical jokes and tricks...

 

[Lanmandragon]

The issue in D&d is going to realistically be. That some jag off dark wizard is going to modify the hell out of xenos. They'll then massd breed them and well invade somewhere. God help everyone if it's a PC and not an NPC. Because I would 💯 figure out a way to slap a facehugguer onto a tarraquse. Just imagine a xenomorphic tarrasque "Unlimited Powerrrrrrrr".

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Dumb fighters bitch about that. Smart firghters retreat then ambush the acid monster. In a way which does not allow them to use thier acid. Thus saving thier equipment for example. Baiting the xenimorph (s) into a narrow cannon shouldn't be to hard. Then trap them with rock slides and shoot them down. Form outside thier range with bows/crossbows. Also have a reserve of bouldbers to rain down on them. When and if they attempt to climb out dead aliens with no acid damage. Fighters are meant to be experienced professional soldiers not beat sticks. They should absolutely be cognizant of tactics and strategy. Frankly the only time a fighter should ever enter a fight without a plan and pre set advantage. Is if he literally has no way to retreat or time to make plans. Anyone who doesn't play fighters that way isn't playing the class how it was meant to be played. Which is why fighters get a bad rap not because the class is bad. Rather because most don't have any idea what a soldier is or does. So they just run the charecter as a straight tank. Instead of actually playing a trained vetran soldier (aka a fighter). Apologies for the derail folks not knowing how to play and downing fighters. Is a pet peeves of mine as I prefer to play them in general.

>Retreat then-
Theres your problem.
Any fighter can come up with a clever strategy to fight one of the "vaporize your equipment" monsters, but when your expensive weapon vaporized the first time you encountered a monster the damage is done already.
A mid to high level fighter that gets blasted with Mo(therfucking)rdenkainen's disjunction is injured more effectively than if he was literally killed. The penalties of being killed are paltry in comparison to loosing a dozen levels of wealth. You might as well just retire at that point, you're never going to catch back up.

 

[Lanmandragon]

>Retreat then-
Theres your problem.
Any fighter can come up with a clever strategy to fight one of the "vaporize your equipment" monsters, but when your expensive weapon vaporized the first time you encountered a monster the damage is done already.
A mid to high level fighter that gets blasted with Mo(therfucking)rdenkainen's disjunction is injured more effectively than if he was literally killed. The penalties of being killed are paltry in comparison to loosing a dozen levels of wealth. You might as well just retire at that point, you're never going to catch back up.

Uh huh that's why I said "if possible". I get what your saying I'm just saying a fighter. Is not the retarded they are generally played as.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

The issue in D&d is going to realistically be. That some jag off dark wizard is going to modify the hell out of xenos. They'll then massd breed them and well invade somewhere. God help everyone if it's a PC and not an NPC. Because I would 💯 figure out a way to slap a facehugguer onto a tarraquse. Just imagine a xenomorphic tarrasque "Unlimited Powerrrrrrrr".

Fortitude saves and psychotically aggressive magi-biology. Your parasite is not infecting the Tarrasque, your parasite is now a prisoner of the Tarrasque.

But you are right, someone would probably try (and succeed) in using xenomorphs as some kind of biological weapon.

Hmm, Xenomorphs could wipe out a smaller Drow settlement but the larger ones would be resistant, though they'd take losses.

Xenomorphs have the problem that they're very vulnerable at several stages of there lives, the eggs and facehuggers are easily destroyed by anybody unless an adult or queen is guarding them all the time. Further the Xenomorphs can hide decently but can't infiltrate well, they've got zero possibility of disguises and rely entirely on stealth, against a race known for extreme levels of deceit, trickery, and spying on each other.

Now Drow, they're extremely paranoid and organized into houses that constantly try to murder each other. Each house is pretty much equipped with it's own army, castle, and holdings and they jealously guard these. So the Xenomorphs might easily destroy a single location from within, but they aren't going to easily cross into another house's territory without getting spotted. This sharply limits their options. In the "open" to the degree that the Underdark has this, Drow can levitate, a huge percentage are various shades of caster who can fly, and many of them have spider-themed items to cling to walls. The Xenomorphs will not find it easy to cling to the ceiling and or lay ambushes because the Drow already think in terms of 3D strategy and a Drow who doesn't constantly look for such things is a Drow who got eaten by a Cloaker when she was four.

In combating the Xenomorphs the Drow's Melee-Magthere trained attackers are obviously a no-go (further proof of the uselessness of males of course). The Drow reliance on hand crossbows and ranged weapons might kinda help but I doubt a hand crossbow will do much to a Xenomorph unless it's seriously magic'd up. The Priestesses and Sorcerers on the other hand are going to be murder (Smart Priestesses will not being using their snake-whips though). Since the Xenomorphs have basically jack to defend against it I expect lots of scry-and-die tactics if they aren't nesting in an already-shielded location, ie. inside an existing great house's fortress.

Clearing out a fully-destroyed house's fortress will be a complete bitch. It'll be designed to hose enemy Drow from step 1, loaded with traps, and probably filled with anti-magic to the gills. I'd expect orc and goblin slaves to be sent in as sacrificial lambs to draw the Xenomorph's attention, followed by a rain of fireballs, lightning bolts, and assorted magic nastiness once the Xenomorphs reveal themselves. It would, of course, be more efficient to use summons instead of wasting good slaves so the Drow won't use summons except in battle. They may try to starve the Xenomorphs out but I think Drow generally don't take to sieges and are more likely to try to act aggressively.

I've never been completely clear if Xenomorphs are sentient or not. If they're truly intelligent the Drow might use psionics and mind control to enslave them. If they're animal intelligence they could do the same via control animal spells and druidic magic but there aren't many Drow druids. Either way I can see Xenomorphs soon being a popular choice in gladiatorial games and possibly as very dangerous guard animals. Cheap too, just throw a facehugger at some worthless male you don't need and boom! Valuable creature to use. It even works on Goblin and Orc males which are even more worthless than Drow males. Eventually we may see Xenomorphs burst out of giants to produce humongous versions as mounts.

Oh I did just recall something. Xenomorphs would be quite a pesky disturbance in the Underdark... or dark areas in general. For a lot of Dungeons and Dragons, infravision is usually a pretty literal term as in most of the species and critters that reside in the Underdark or Dark in general can see the body heat emanating from other creatures out to so many feet. So Drow, Goblinoids, Dwarfs, Elves and Gnomes and their offshoots would still have trouble seeing the xenomorphs... at least by their body heat I'm assuming since they didn't show up on the Colonial Marine scanners either.

Which doesn't meant they're helpless of course, lots of them can use light magic or sight or sense enhancement abilities and folks like the Drow and Deep Gnomes used their ears as much as their eyes and engaged in blind fighting and the like. But still... a bit of a worry.

Illithids/Mind Flayers and Myconids others who use darkvision/low light vision or other forms of sensory perception might not be as mitigated though.

However in 5th edition and prior editions I think DnD moved from infravision to darkvision… so ultimately... it could not be as big a deal. Though again... darkvision isn't nearly as effective since you basically see everything as shades of gray. Which runs contrary to a lot of DnD 'novel' and lore stuff where infravision was often detailed for folks like the Drow.

It's interesting to wonder how effective Illithid mind control/charm abilities would be upon xenomorphs as well or their Queen or if they'd be too powerful/alien to reliably control. Also Beholders would probably be pretty decent counters to Xenomorphs... being that they can for the most part fly and hover and thus avoid all of those nasty claws unless they get pounced upon from above (similarly Drow who have the innate ability to levitate could help with threat mitigation).

Ew. Realms.

Anyway I'd probably have Xenomorphs stated as Vermin, and thus immune to traditional mental attacks. They may be clever, but they operate at most times far more like an insect colony or even organic machines than they do animals or, indeed, anything with an Ego. Many supernatural vermin are capable of bizarre levels of complicated behavior, yet vermin they remain.

Acid resistance and immunity though is pretty rare though compared to cold or fire or poison etc. Outside of extraplanar types like Slaad, fiends or Loths and higher undead (spectral like ghosts and banshees) there aren't many "natural" threats to them.

The thing is while Acid immunity isnt super common, there are more than a few things that might just tank the damage and crush them. Acid that can reduce steel to mush isn't exactly uncommon in DnD, and Hicks got blasted right in the face and survived.

Uh huh that's why I said "if possible". I get what your saying I'm just saying a fighter. Is not the retarded they are generally played as.

What you said was "Dumb fighters would bitch about it" in response to "Fighters would bitch about it", that sentiment is key to my response.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Fortitude saves and psychotically aggressive magi-biology. Your parasite is not infecting the Tarrasque, your parasite is now a prisoner of the Tarrasque.

But you are right, someone would probably try (and succeed) in using xenomorphs as some kind of biological weapon.




Ew. Realms.

Anyway I'd probably have Xenomorphs stated as Vermin, and thus immune to traditional mental attacks. They may be clever, but they operate at most times far more like an insect colony or even organic machines than they do animals or, indeed, anything with an Ego. Many supernatural vermin are capable of bizarre levels of complicated behavior, yet vermin they remain.


The thing is while Acid immunity isnt super common, there are more than a few things that might just tank the damage and crush them. Acid that can reduce steel to mush isn't exactly uncommon in DnD, and Hicks got blasted right in the face and survived.



What you said was "Dumb fighters would bitch about it" in response to "Fighters would bitch about it", that sentiment is key to my response.

I don't see any material difference but whatever it's not that important. Hmm what would you org a queens cr at for 3.5? I'm saying cr19ish maybe?