world war 1 Versallies what if

[Cherico]

Weather its a different president in the us, real politic or something else the powers that Be in Versallies decides to throw in a poison pill that will ensure that the germans don't let the Kaiser back in.

So what do they do? Split off east prussia to become the kingdom of Prussia and let Kaiser Wilhelm be the king of that land. East Prussia other then losing the coridor to the poles are spared the endemities the war guilt, and the reperations payments. The kingdom gets a fresh start but the Kaiser is the one who has to sign versallies.

This is done so that the german's will be able to point to the Kaiser as the one who sold out germany in order to save his own ass. The kaiser having a choice between being king of nothing or being king of prussia signs.

The new republic of germany is thus forced to deal with Wilhelms last deal as king while he goes off to live in east prussia and continue to be king of a smaller country that doesn't have the restrictions germany deals with.

How does this change germany and german politics? and the world in general?

 

[Buba]

Well, East Prussia is a piss poor agri backwater, hence its non-appearance in Weimar politics does not change things much. The only industry there is the Elbing Schihau naval shipyard, which will really, really struggle.

I somehow suspect that East Prussian military will be on the biggish size for a country of such size and GDP ...

There will be pressure for Reunification, though. And here you slyly introduced Wilhelm II as the wild card

I wonder if the NSDAP will grow into the largest political force like in OTL. It should not? Or maybe it will have a very strong "yeoman farmer" slant? As a leftist revolutionary movement it might become the expression of small farmers and landless farm workers and clash with the junkers. See the lyrics of Horst Wessel Lied.

Originally the Polish speaking south was to be gifted to Poland, but Polonophobic Lloyd George made it a plebiscite area. The plebiscite was held at the height of Soviet succeses in 1920 - guess the result? Also - the Lutheran Masurians were not that interested in joining pisspoor, Catholic, "asiatic" Poland. Here the plebiscite would be as bad - or worse - for Poland, as Masurians often identified as "Polish speaking Prussians" - I imagine such an outlook to be reinforced.

Poland will be the greatest champion of East Prussia's independence. Or should. In my book an indepedent East Prussia is aboon which should be cherished and nurtured, as this kills the "corridor".
However, never underestimate human stupidity - and Piłsudski's Junta was not the brightest, and its successor outright moronic ... Warsaw might make "reunify East Prussia with Poland" noises, pissing off everybody and pushing Koenigsberg into the arms of Berlin-based revanchists.

 

[WolfBear]

Without East Prussia, I wonder if Wilhelm Marx wins the 1925 German Presidential election. If so, this should give Weimar democracy a huge shot in the arm.

 

[Skallagrim]

The problem with this is that it allows Wilhelm to retain some pride. Good for him, of course, but it paints the Entente as smug bastards imposing their will and humiliating the Kaiser and Germany. As opposed to OTL, where the Kaiser looked like a foolish coward running with his tail between his legs.

Sure, they'll try to paint it as "the Kaiser sold out Germany". But is it seen that way by the Germans? That's a big gamble. Because there's a good chance that this set up forever welds German revanchism to monarchism. "We will retake what was stolen. Our land. Our honour. Our sacred Imperial crown. Long live Germany! Long live the Kaiser!"

That scenario is too obvious to overlook.

 

[WolfBear]

The problem with this is that it allows Wilhelm to retain some pride. Good for him, of course, but it paints the Entente as smug bastards imposing their will and humiliating the Kaiser and Germany. As opposed to OTL, where the Kaiser looked like a foolish coward running with his tail between his legs.

Sure, they'll try to paint it as "the Kaiser sold out Germany". But is it seen that way by the Germans? That's a big gamble. Because there's a good chance that this set up forever welds German revanchism to monarchism. "We will retake what was stolen. Our land. Our honour. Our sacred Imperial crown. Long live Germany! Long live the Kaiser!"

That scenario is too obvious to overlook.

With the German Kaiser remaining in power, it could be harder for Hitler to implement his atrocities. Or maybe not consider that Kaiser Bill already talked about gassing Jews back in 1919 :

The Kaiser and His Court: Wilhelm II and the Government of Germany | Reviews in History

reviews.history.ac.uk

Such Hitler-like rages made Eulenburg predict an imperial nervous breakdown, something, however, that never occurred. Still, there were occasions when rumours spread that the Kaiser would have to be committed--again, something which never actually took place. Fits of rage, unfortunately, were not the only characteristic that the Kaiser shared with Hitler. Full-blooded anti-Semitism was another and Rohl makes it perfectly clear that Wilhelm II had nothing to learn in this respect from the Fuhrer. If, like Hitler, he had Jewish friends as a youth, he later turned on the Jews as Germany's most deadly enemy, informing Sir Edward Grey, for example, in 1907 that "They want stamping out." He also believed in a international conspiracy of Jewish capitalists and communists - the Golden International, blaming the First World War, Germany's defeat and his own - abdication on an international} conspiracy of Jewish freemasons, so that in exile in Holland his anti-Semitism reached fever pitch. In 1919 he wrote to General von Mackensen: "Let no German.... rest until these parasites have been destroyed and exterminated." He called for an international, Russian-style pogrom against them condemning them as a "nuisance" that humanity must in some way destroy. Then in his own hand, he added: " I believe the best would be gas." It was altogether natural, therefore, that, before he died in June 1941, he welcomed Hitler's victories as confirmation of the fighting qualities of the troops of 1914-1918. He boasted: " The hand of God is creating a new World and working miracles....We are becoming a U.S. of Europe under German leadership, a united European Continent, nobody ever hoped to see.....The Jews are being (sic) thrust out of their nefarious positions in all countries, whom they have driven to hostility for centuries."

 

[Skallagrim]

With the German Kaiser remaining in power, it could be harder for Hitler to implement his atrocities. Or maybe not consider that Kaiser Bill already talked about gassing Jews back in 1919 :

The Kaiser and His Court: Wilhelm II and the Government of Germany | Reviews in History

reviews.history.ac.uk

Wilhelm was pretty rabid at times. He was also absolutely convinced that Japan was going to conquer the world (somehow), and cause a "yellow deluge" that would wash away all civilisation.

Of course, the worst of his spite came forth from his bitter defeat and exile in OTL. When he felt good about himself, and was filled with confidence, he much preferred to be the (at least in his own mind) magnanimous monarch. So we may imagine that his "confinement" to East Prussia will be a bitter period for him (albeit plausibly less so than in OTL), but that any restoration of the Kaiserreich will see him feeling vindicated. Which will affect how he feels about things like genocide.

Not that there aren't scenarios where things could go badly wrong.

 

[WolfBear]

Wilhelm was pretty rabid at times. He was also absolutely convinced that Japan was going to conquer the world (somehow), and cause a "yellow deluge" that would wash away all civilisation.

Of course, the worst of his spite came forth from his bitter defeat and exile in OTL. When he felt good about himself, and was filled with confidence, he much preferred to be the (at least in his own mind) magnanimous monarch. So we may imagine that his "confinement" to East Prussia will be a bitter period for him (albeit plausibly less so than in OTL), but that any restoration of the Kaiserreich will see him feeling vindicated. Which will affect how he feels about things like genocide.

Not that there aren't scenarios where things could go badly wrong.

Even if he experiences a recovery period, he could still be angry at Jews over "the deluge"--as in, the period of his life where he was stuck in East Prussia and completely powerless and non-influential over the rest of Germany.