WI: What type of Non-Nuclear force would it take to reasonably conquer The United States and hold it effectively?

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Just what is says. How large, morale driven and tech savy would a military force have to be to reasonably beat then occupy, the United States as well as pacify it fully in a war?

This scenario assumes that nukes don't work for ease of making it happen.
 
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Just what is says. How large, morale driven and tech savy would a military force have to be to reasonably beat and then occupy the U.S. then pacify the U.S. fully in a war?

This scenario assumes that nukes don't work for ease of making it happen.
Something on the order of most if not all of the rest of the planet combined(and they would probably have to strip themselves of soldiers and fighting age men) especially that pacify part I mean there are so many guns and people who know how to use them so many different kinds of environment whole armies could just disappear and go "lost, presumed eaten by the locals".
 
Just what is says. How large, morale driven and tech savy would a military force have to be to reasonably beat then occupy, the United States as well as pacify it fully in a war?

This scenario assumes that nukes don't work for ease of making it happen.
How many does China and Inidia have combined population wise?

Basically an all out non nuclear war with China would lead to a US victory but economic turmoil. WE would still be to strong for any other country to attempt to attack us, and that is just our military not within the US borders. Invasion of the US would be met with a LOT of resistance. Even with how things are going, there will be a ongoing rebellion, that would demoralize every single country that tried. It would basically come down to the US military being weakened in an overseas war, then during economic turmoil invasion promising economic help. This is going that the world can run without the US.
 
No one is gonna land a successful Amphibious invasion on the Continental US. They would have to land in Canada, Mexico, Central America or South America and try to head south or North respectively. And even then. We still have enough raw firepower in both Military and Civilian hands to well make an invasion of the US look like this.

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Complete with the damn lightsabers we would be using.
 
No one is gonna land a successful Amphibious invasion on the Continental US. They would have to land in Canada, Mexico, Central America or South America and try to head south or North respectively. And even then. We still have enough raw firepower in both Military and Civilian hands to well make an invasion of the US look like this.

"Firepower in civilian hands" in the United States is pretty much restricted to light small arms with a handful of vintage cannons. That's little more than a speed bump to any remotely serious military invasion force.
 
"Firepower in civilian hands" in the United States is pretty much restricted to light small arms with a handful of vintage cannons. That's little more than a speed bump to any remotely serious military invasion force.
I don't think you understand what kind of stuff a US citizen can get their hands on, or have already.

Also there is the fact that outside of jets, there is nothing the US populace could not take down with what they can make and aquire.
 
"Firepower in civilian hands" in the United States is pretty much restricted to light small arms with a handful of vintage cannons. That's little more than a speed bump to any remotely serious military invasion force.
Yeah if the civilians are gathering in a field like in a video game to fight the military on the opposing side of the field.
 
Yeah if the civilians are gathering in a field like in a video game to fight the military on the opposing side of the field.
Obviously we will do old school charges with sword and pikes and get mowed down by the enemy. Or like world War one where we dig in trenches and wait patiently and hope they don't have aircraft and tanks.
 
what the Viet cong did to us. What the middle east does.
Guerilla warfare
I'd like to think we can do better that, their levels of attrition and rate of success were (are) abysmal even as resistance movements go.



Regardless, there is no military force currently conceivable that could even occupy the USA successfully, let alone after an invasion. Occupying the United States would bankrupt the planet, defeating the United States Militarily would also bankrupt the planet. The United states is the most powerful nation by an order of magnitude easily, and heres something that will confuse all those people out there who get their military education from playing video games, The United States Could not defeat and conquer the United States without bankrupting itself, if two carbon copies of it were placed side by side. To hold an area that large and geographically diverse, with that many armed dissidents, across an ocean, you would need to dramatically overpower the native force, by at least if not more than the margin by which America is militarily superior to the other countries.


In other words in answer to the OP, the answer is "Something resembling fifteen to twenty Americas stapled together into one empire"
 
I don't think you understand what kind of stuff a US citizen can get their hands on, or have already.

I'm well aware of what's legal for civilian ownership in the United States, and it *does not* include prolific RPGs, ATGMs, large numbers of squad automatic weapons, etc. At best, civilian armament in the United States works out to an irregular skirmishing guerilla force -- and the most effective weapons for those are IEDs, not tricked out ARs.

Even then, guerilla warfare is much more effective against a Western style peacekeeping force operating with the gloves on, versus a Soviet-style occupation where the response to sniper fire is "artillery / air support promptly levels the block".
 
"Firepower in civilian hands" in the United States is pretty much restricted to light small arms with a handful of vintage cannons. That's little more than a speed bump to any remotely serious military invasion force.
One of my best friend has a functional rocket launcher with plenty of rockets. His family used it against a bunch of KKK that tried to attack their home back in the 90s. And this is not even bringing up the other off the book weapons that have found there way into civilian hands. Trust me the ATF don't have a clue about all the off the book weapons civilians actually have.
 
I'm well aware of what's legal for civilian ownership in the United States, and it *does not* include prolific RPGs, ATGMs, large numbers of squad automatic weapons, etc. At best, civilian armament in the United States works out to an irregular skirmishing guerilla force -- and the most effective weapons for those are IEDs, not tricked out ARs.
Yes. And that would be a ridiculous by historical standards amount of irregular skirmishing guerilla force. Sure, you are right, even that won't stop an armored division...
But lets not underrate the issue of guerilla forces either.

It will turn logistics and occupation into hell. Won't stop them alone for sure if the other side is willing to take and\or inflict massive amounts of death. However, as long as the war still goes on, every armored vehicle, soldier and artillery shell that has to be kept in reserve, or worse, used to fight the guerillas, is one that is not available on the frontlines. Moreover, every piece of material stolen or destroyed by guerillas is also not serving the enemy's war effort either.
Worse, as the meme goes, and is the accurate answer to "hurr can't win a war with small arms alone", the most obvious thing guerillas will do is to use their small arms to take opportunities to steal supplies from the enemy military still busy fighting a war, with any stolen heavy weapon ammo (especially artillery shells) being easily repurposed into IEDs.
Now they have small arms and IEDs, and its not funny anymore.
And if the invading army are major users of single use disposable light anti tank weapons, like a lot of major powers are, that's gonna be another supply looting priority.

In specific case of USA, ARs are just an overblown by both sides for political and cultural reasons contention point. Great for ambushing squads of support personnel, even small groups of soldiers, but lets not forget the other guns.

Handguns - concealable, filling a very different niche in a guerilla's arsenal than a rifle, for the exact reasons why they are the favorite of criminals plaguing America's cities aswell.

Medium and big game hunting rifles - with a night vision scope for a bonus. There are immense logistical costs to effectively securing an area from potential 1000-1500m range sniper 24\7, and its not much cheaper to hunt him down after he strikes either. The very fact that many are willing to tie down such expensive and limited assets as tanks, artillery and aircraft into hunting down a sniper testifies to the threat they pose.

Rare but underrated - anti materiel rifles. Most of the above points apply, except with expanded options for large scale havoc, as the name implies. There is quite a number of hard to guard places in which mere few well placed .50 cal bullets can cause 6 to 8 digit USD worth of damage to military equipment and civilian infrastructure that is kinda important to fighting a war.
Even then, guerilla warfare is much more effective against a Western style peacekeeping force operating with the gloves on, versus a Soviet-style occupation where the response to sniper fire is "artillery / air support promptly levels the block".
Not unless they have infinite logistics cheat codes. Artillery is not free, citizen. And lets not even talk about how much airstrikes cost...
Counterpoints:
Chechenya vs Russia - lost but secured concessions
Afghanistan vs Soviet Union - won with foreign covert support
Poland and USSR vs occupation by THE Nazis - meaningfully contributed to the war effort of the winning side
 
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I'm well aware of what's legal for civilian ownership in the United States, and it *does not* include prolific RPGs, ATGMs, large numbers of squad automatic weapons, etc. At best, civilian armament in the United States works out to an irregular skirmishing guerilla force -- and the most effective weapons for those are IEDs, not tricked out ARs.
Shaped Charges are 1800s technology.

Even then, guerilla warfare is much more effective against a Western style peacekeeping force operating with the gloves on, versus a Soviet-style occupation where the response to sniper fire is "artillery / air support promptly levels the block".
Yeah just level the entire country with some trillion dollars worth of materiel. Thats not a very stretched definition of "Conquering" or "holding" at all.
 
I will point out these are the people who will make up a portion of the civilian ranks.

Former Sappers
Former Navy Seals
Former EODs
Former Army Rangers
Former Green Berets
Former Marine Force Recon
Former Seabees
Former SWCC Sailors
Former Riverine Sailors
Former P Jays
Former Forward Air Controllers
Former Army Infantry
Former Marine Corps Rifleman

And those numbers are in the millions.
 
I will point out these are the people who will make up a portion of the civilian ranks.

Former Sappers
Former Navy Seals
Former EODs
Former Army Rangers
Former Green Berets
Former Marine Force Recon
Former Seabees
Former SWCC Sailors
Former Riverine Sailors
Former P Jays
Former Forward Air Controllers
Former Army Infantry
Former Marine Corps Rifleman

And those numbers are in the millions.
Do not forget people from the Intel community like HUMINT and SIGINT. We can do our job with civilian bought equipment.
 
I once read some sci-fi story about mini drones used to take down important figures before major army with normal drones taken over.
As long as invaders would have enough of them,they could conqer and occupy not only USA,but entire continent.
I simply do not knew,if such technology arleady exist.
 
I once read some sci-fi story about mini drones used to take down important figures before major army with normal drones taken over.
As long as invaders would have enough of them,they could conqer and occupy not only USA,but entire continent.
I simply do not knew,if such technology arleady exist.
Bunkers negate any advantage of such drones
 

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