Alternate History WI there was a nocturnal kind of Homo Sapiens discovered during the Roman Empire?

[Urabrask Revealed]

By chance, two strains of Homo Sapiens evolved into being. One strain is the good ol' Homo Sapiens, in this timeline know as Homo Sapiens Lumus, and the other is a nocturnal variant of Homo Sapiens, dubbed Homo Sapiens Umbrus.

While the greek texts had first descriptions of Homo Sapiens Umbrus, where they are described as barbarians from the North, with owlish eyes and elonged ears as well as pale skin, the greeks never had any sound proof of their existance, and it was only with the expansion of the Roman Empire into Germanian territory that their existance was truly documented.

Opposite to Homo Sapiens, Homo Sapiens Umbrus works, hunts, and lives during night time, and sleeps during the day. Sunlight isn't deadly or even harmful, but due to their biology, they do find it unpleasant and prefer to interact with Homo Sapiens Lumus during sunset or -rise if they can't meet at night.

Now what I would like to know, how would the Roman Empire interact with these people? Would they try to integrate them, seeing as their abilities have some useful military application, or would they be seriously creeped out by them? And how would their existance influence the development of History?

 

[Erwin_Pommel]

*Slowly raises white-ash stake and bundle of garlic while cautiously standing in a river*

"VAMPIRE!"

But yeah, I can certainly see a few tall tales appearing or them just being wiped out because of their strange looks. Or, they'll just get dumped in Russia if they survive long enough. No idea how the Romans themselves act though beyond creating a night-time recon group with them.

 

[Scottty]

Having such a subspecies already there in Northern Europe is a very large butterfly - it would make its effects known long before the time of the Roman Empire.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Having such a subspecies already there in Northern Europe is a very large butterfly - it would make its effects known long before the time of the Roman Empire.

I tried to handwave that by letting them be discovered by the Roman Empire, but assuming this doesn't apply how soon are we talking?

 

[Deleted member]

Primarily, it will influence human migration patterns.

 

[Scottty]

I tried to handwave that by letting them be discovered by the Roman Empire, but assuming this doesn't apply how soon are we talking?

Let's approach this another way - why were they not discovered earlier than that?

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Let's approach this another way - why were they not discovered earlier than that?

To be honest, I can't explain well.

As already mentioned, they were known to the greek cities where they were seen on the same level as centaurs and satyrs, but there was no direct contact. The gauls on the other hand did meet with them, but relations were poor, and the roman republic dismissed their stories as telltales, only truly documenting them when the empire tried to push the boundaries beyond the rhine.

Put shorter, they were known about, but not thoroughly documented until the romans came around.

 

[S'task]

So, let's step back a few thousand years and make some determinations based on the basic biology ideas here. Umbrans are going to favor more northern climates, though not arctic, as the longer nights are more conductive to their lifestyle and the longer daytimes and more intense sunlight of the tropics are not. This means in early migration, they'd have moved into northern climate zones while Lumens tended to stick towards the more central ones.

While in the hunter/gathering era of humanity, it is quite feasible these tribes wouldn't have had much overlap, not just due to the Umbrans moving north out of Africa faster, but also due to carrying load of land, areas where the Umbrans live is going to be harvested and so you'd not see Lumens moving into those areas as readily due to that.

One interesting effect is that domesticated species might well end up similarly having two "branches", ones bred by Umbrans being nocturnally inclined while the ones we know are developed as normal by the Lumens.

However, unless they are significantly less technologically advanced than Lumens, which I cannot see happening... I really cannot see them remaining isolated for so long into history. Humans innately form bands, and if the only difference between Lumens and Umbrans are that they are diurnal vs nocturnal, but are otherwise psychologically the same, by the time of the Romans there would have been Umbran Empires and warlords, and conquerors just as there were Lumen ones. Competition for resources and food would have caused conflict between Umrban and Lumen peoples for millennia before the rise of the Romans, and those conflicts would have had the same result as every other conflict in human history: one side or the other wins, and absorbs their neighbor, forces them to take up their ideals and lifestyle, etc.

In Europe, given it's more northerly climate and the migration patterns, it's very likely that, well, the Umbrans and Lumens cease being distinguishable tribes perhaps even before Rome, but certainly after Rome. Rather, there's likely interbreeding and general mixing. This might also be the case across central Asia and the Far East, and eventually "Lumen" or "Umbran" becomes less of a physical distinction and more of a cultural one in those regions, as whoever's branch's culture became dominate in a region ended up determining if the culture was diurnal or nocturnal. (Bear in mind, in Europe it is suspected that something similar happened with another hominid, that they ended up, functionally, absorbed into "homo sapiens"). All that said, while I think you'd end up with many more people active at night in most civilizations, I think most cultures would end up diurnal, as the advantages of working in the daylight greatly outweigh that or working at night, and those with high amounts of Umbran ancestry would just have to adapt or they'd find jobs that allow them to work nights, much as people who are night owls already tend to do.

Now, all that said, if we presume that the Umbrans moved north faster than Lumens, it is likely that Umbrans were the first ones across the Bering Land Bridge and likely made up the majority of those who became the Native Americans. This would have some significant alterations of the later European contact with the Americas, and could ALSO result in significantly different situation for the Americas that the Europeans arrive to. For instance: would central American religions have been so Sun focused, or would they have instead been Moon focused? It would also lead to a larger culture shock when the Europeans arrived dealing with purely nocturnal natives.

 

[WolfBear]

Let's approach this another way - why were they not discovered earlier than that?

Because they arrived in Europe from another dimension during the time of the Roman Empire?

By chance, two strains of Homo Sapiens evolved into being. One strain is the good ol' Homo Sapiens, in this timeline know as Homo Sapiens Lumus, and the other is a nocturnal variant of Homo Sapiens, dubbed Homo Sapiens Umbrus.

While the greek texts had first descriptions of Homo Sapiens Umbrus, where they are described as barbarians from the North, with owlish eyes and elonged ears as well as pale skin, the greeks never had any sound proof of their existance, and it was only with the expansion of the Roman Empire into Germanian territory that their existance was truly documented.

Opposite to Homo Sapiens, Homo Sapiens Umbrus works, hunts, and lives during night time, and sleeps during the day. Sunlight isn't deadly or even harmful, but due to their biology, they do find it unpleasant and prefer to interact with Homo Sapiens Lumus during sunset or -rise if they can't meet at night.

Now what I would like to know, how would the Roman Empire interact with these people? Would they try to integrate them, seeing as their abilities have some useful military application, or would they be seriously creeped out by them? And how would their existance influence the development of History?

Seems like this could work wonders for the Roman economy, having it hum as well during the night as it would during the day. Umbrus could also have value in nighttime military operations, but of course, you'd first want to make sure that you can actually rely on them.

 

[Skallagrim]

One way to quasi-plausibly have them exist is for them to live in the very far North, e.g. Northern Scandinavia and Russia, essentially replacing the peoples who live there in OTL. The idea is that thry cannot be in the path of the Indo-European migrations, because if they are, they A) can't be all that unknown, and B) will have been either wiped out or assimilated. So locating very much out-of-the-way is the only viable path, unless we go with industrial-strength butterfly repellant.

If you locate them in the Far North, you can have Roman explorers who described the "midnight sun" in OTL go into detail about these strange inhabitants of the Far North. And it can make sense that they'd live there... if they aestivate during the 24-hour-day summer (same way OTL species hibernate during winter) and only awaken during the permanent night of the Northern winter. Of course, then, there's little to eat. They certainly don't have any opportunity to pursue agrarian ventures. They must hunt, in the long dark winter. They must be carnivores. (And possibly... they hunt and eat the day-walkers. So now vampires are real.)

Already being adapted to the dark, there's little doubt that they'd live in warrens and burrows, underground. They'd remain there during the day.

In this scenario, contact with the Romans is going to be minimal, and things only really get going during the mediaeval period. I don't think it ends well for our nocturnal cousins. They'll get crusaded sooner than you can say "spawn of the devil!"



P.S. -- If we're going with Latin nomenclature, I think Homo Sapiens Diurnalis and Homo Sapiens Nocturnalis would make more sense.

 

[WolfBear]

In this scenario, contact with the Romans is going to be minimal, and things only really get going during the mediaeval period. I don't think it ends well for our nocturnal cousins. They'll get crusaded sooner than you can say "spawn of the devil!"

But surely they can come around to accept the teachings of Jesus Christ, no?

 

[Earl]

They'll get crusaded sooner than you can say "spawn of the devil

I dont think that has to be the end of the story though, as the Church would probably be interested in converting them. Hell, there were people interested in converting Dogmen:

Do the Dog-Headed Men Have Souls? // Letter from 9th Century Monk // Primary Source - YouTube

Of course we have the issue that upon encountering them, well...Humans have a hard time treating others of diffrent skin color with respect and dignity (granted not nearly as much atthis time then later down the line but you get my point). A diffrent species? That be a harder pill to swallow. Also take into account the Crusaders might not exactly listen to the Church in this instance.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Seems like this could work wonders for the Roman economy, having it hum as well during the night as it would during the day.

Depends. I don't think day time dwellers trying to get some sleep after a day's work would appreciate being woken up by the sound of a blacksmith hammering at 2 AM in the morning. Then again, maybe the night dwellers would work a bit away from the daytime people's housing districts.

 

[Skallagrim]

I dont think that has to be the end of the story though, as the Church would probably be interested in converting them. Hell, there were people interested in converting Dogmen:

Do the Dog-Headed Men Have Souls? // Letter from 9th Century Monk // Primary Source - YouTube

Of course we have the issue that upon encountering them, well...Humans have a hard time treating others of diffrent skin color with respect and dignity (granted not nearly as much atthis time then later down the line but you get my point). A diffrent species? That be a harder pill to swallow. Also take into account the Crusaders might not exactly listen to the Church in this instance.

I think you have it right when you say the Church may be interested in converting them, but many others... won't be.

 

[Earl]

I think you have it right when you say the Church may be interested in converting them, but many others... won't be.

Yeah...Do wonder if theyll be used as a Slave Race? But their Vampire reputation would make that problematic probably.