Who else dreads this year?

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
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Here's a fun article:
F) OK, OK, BUT NYC ALWAYS COMES BACK
Yes it does. I lived three blocks from Ground Zero on 9/11. Downtown, where I lived, was destroyed, but it came roaring back within two years. Such sadness and hardship and then quickly that area became the most attractive area in New York.

And in 2008/2009, there was much suffering during the Great Recession, again much hardship, but things came roaring back.

But… this time is different. You’re never supposed to say that but this time it’s true. If you believe this time is no different, that NYC is resilient, I hope you’re right.

I don’t benefit from saying any of this. I love NYC. I was born there. I’ve lived there forever. I STILL live there. I love everything about NYC. I want 2019 back.

But this time is different.

One reason: Bandwidth.

In 2008, average bandwidth speeds were 3 megabits per second. That’s not enough for a Zoom meeting with reliable video quality. Now, it’s over 20 megabits per second. That’s more than enough for high-quality video.

There’s a before and after. BEFORE: No remote work. AFTER: Everyone can work remotely.

The difference: bandwidth got faster. And that’s basically it. People have left New York City and have moved completely into virtual worlds. The Time-Life Building doesn’t need to fill up again. Wall Street can now stretch across every street instead of just being one building in Manhattan.

We are officially AB: After Bandwidth. And for the entire history of NYC (the world) until now, we were BB: Before Bandwidth.

Remote learning, remote meetings, remote offices, remote performance, remote everything.

That’s what is different.

Everyone has spent the past five months adapting to a new lifestyle. Nobody wants to fly across the country for a two-hour meeting when you can do it just as well on Zoom. I can go see “live comedy” on Zoom. I can take classes from the best teachers in the world for almost free online as opposed to paying $70,000 a year for a limited number of teachers who may or may not be good.

Everyone has choices now. You can live in the music capital of Nashville, you can live in the “next Silicon Valley” of Austin. You can live in your hometown in the middle of wherever. And you can be just as productive, make the same salary, have higher quality of life with a cheaper cost to live.

G) AND WHAT WOULD MAKE YOU COME BACK?
There won’t be business opportunities for years. Businesses move on. People move on. It will be cheaper for businesses to function more remotely and bandwidth is only getting faster.

Wait for events and conferences and even meetings and maybe even office spaces to start happening in virtual realities once everyone is spread out from midtown Manhattan to all over the country.

The quality of restaurants will start to go up in all the second- and then third-tier cities as talent and skill flow to the places that can quickly make use of them.

Ditto for cultural events.

And then people will ask, “Wait a second, I was paying over 16% in state and city taxes and these other states and cities have little to no taxes? And I don’t have to deal with all the other headaches of NYC?”

Because there are headaches in NYC. Lots of them. It’s just we sweep them under the table because so much else has been good there.

NYC has a $9 billion deficit. $1 billion more than the mayor thought it was going to have. How does a city pay back its debts? The main way is aid from the state. But the state deficit just went bonkers. Then is taxes. But if 900,000 estimated jobs are lost in NYC and tens of thousands of businesses, then that means less taxes unless taxes are raised.

Next is tolls from the tunnels and bridges. But fewer people are commuting to work. Well, how about the city-owned colleges? Fewer people are returning to college. Well how about property taxes? More people defaulting on their properties.

What reason will people have to go back to NYC?

The good news is that we might rid ourselves of the cultural black hole that is New York. The bad news is that the fleeing masses are essentially a second pandemic, this time of liberal/woke people potentially spreading their bad ideas and political stances everywhere and fucking things up.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
That's utter crap. You do know the internet was specifically designed to withstand multiple nuclear strikes (which has an EMP effect), right?
You do know that most modern military systems claim the same right? Are you saying the internet is more protected then the military?

EMPs would blow powergrids, and that alone would lead to the internet being wiped out. You can say it is protected from en EMP, but an EMP is not going to target the internet, but everything that keeps it running.

I have to know the effects of these first hand, as they are the biggest threat besides nukes I face in my field.
 

Morphic Tide

Well-known member
You do know that most modern military systems claim the same right? Are you saying the internet is more protected then the military?
Given the infrastructure was literally started as keeping the military in touch through nuclear war, and the Internet has more money in it than the entire US GDP at this point, it's a rather safe bet. It'd be weird as fuck, but there's offsite archival of everything major scattered across the planet, and the US electrical grid is itself also redundant and distributed, also with plans for dealing with the EMP effects of nuclear strikes.

You could nuke Silicone Valley and only mildly inconvenience the Internet at large. Specifically by design, even from the people who got nuked.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Given the infrastructure was literally started as keeping the military in touch through nuclear war, and the Internet has more money in it than the entire US GDP at this point, it's a rather safe bet. It'd be weird as fuck, but there's offsite archival of everything major scattered across the planet, and the US electrical grid is itself also redundant and distributed, also with plans for dealing with the EMP effects of nuclear strikes.

You could nuke Silicone Valley and only mildly inconvenience the Internet at large. Specifically by design, even from the people who got nuked.
You act like I don't know what we use...
Almost like my job is to make sure none of that happens to the Army in the first place.

We also can put said things into effect in the US bit have not yet ateast as far as I have read.

I was just giving one example.
The other big one is from cyberattacks to the power grid and the like.

Guess what needs power to run.

In the end our reliance on the internet will fail.
 

Abhorsen

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Osaul
You do know that most modern military systems claim the same right? Are you saying the internet is more protected then the military?
Yes, actually. Its decentralized design (commissioned by the military, btw, specifically to preserve communications after a nuclear strike from the USSR) means that even if you blow up major servers, the network itself will stay connected. It's not that the machines are better, it is that the network (because it is a decentralized network) is robust to removing a huge amount of it, so anyplace that wasn't directly hit by an EMP will still be able to communicate with anywhere else that wasn't hit.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
You act like I don't know what we use...
Almost like my job is to make sure none of that happens to the Army in the first place.

We also can put said things into effect in the US bit have not yet ateast as far as I have read.

I was just giving one example.
The other big one is from cyberattacks to the power grid and the like.

Guess what needs power to run.

In the end our reliance on the internet will fail.
You do realize that an EMP strong enough to take out the internet isn't going to stop at just that, right? You're not talking about going back to the days before the internet; you're talking about going back to the days before electricity. It's a nightmare scenario where not just our "reliance on the internet" will fail, but our reliance on being able to see at night that will fail.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Yes, actually. Its decentralized design (commissioned by the military, btw, specifically to preserve communications after a nuclear strike from the USSR) means that even if you blow up major servers, the network itself will stay connected. It's not that the machines are better, it is that the network (because it is a decentralized network) is robust to removing a huge amount of it, so anyplace that wasn't directly hit by an EMP will still be able to communicate with anywhere else that wasn't hit.
IF an EMP was to b launched over the US it would strike the whole country, as would nukes, not just certain areas....
You do realize that an EMP strong enough to take out the internet isn't going to stop at just that, right? You're not talking about going back to the days before the internet; you're talking about going back to the days before electricity. It's a nightmare scenario where not just our "reliance on the internet" will fail, but our reliance on being able to see at night that will fail.
Oh I know, I know.
 

Abhorsen

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IF an EMP was to b launched over the US it would strike the whole country, as would nukes, not just certain areas....
EMPs don't have that kind of range. Maybe a bunch of them, but that is unlikely. Regardless, if there is a nuclear salvo that didn't eliminate the US entirely, what is left would have internet connection.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
In the case of EMPs strong enough to destroy the entire US electonic infrastructure, I think I would prefer to be outside a city anyway, not trapped in a deathzone with ten million other people when even the elevators don't work anymore and there's enough food for maybe a day before we start eating each other.

The fact that Zoom would no longer function would be so far down my list of priorities at that point I'd need a telescope to find it.
 

JagerIV

Well-known member
It won't last.

The whole online only will not work soon, and are making it easier for a single strike of an EMP to wipe out our economy

Okay, you started with a statement that was debatable, which meant there was room for discusion, then switched to EMP discussion, which is completely irrelevant. You know whats even more vunerable to a nuke? New York City! So, in order to improve surviablitiy vs nukes, people spread out over 30 medium sized cities would have made us much more resiliant since forever than having so many eggs in the NYC basket. Yet NYC is still there. Nuclear Survivial is irrelevant to whether or not NYC will recover or not, which is the point of conversation.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
EMPs don't have that kind of range. Maybe a bunch of them, but that is unlikely. Regardless, if there is a nuclear salvo that didn't eliminate the US entirely, what is left would have internet connection.
I did mean multiple not one.
...This statement is so utterly wrong that it has me seriously doubting your credibility not just on this issue, but about everything.
I meant the Nukes would cover the country which would include an EMP effect. The wording was wrong.
Okay, you started with a statement that was debatable, which meant there was room for discusion, then switched to EMP discussion, which is completely irrelevant. You know whats even more vunerable to a nuke? New York City! So, in order to improve surviablitiy vs nukes, people spread out over 30 medium sized cities would have made us much more resiliant since forever than having so many eggs in the NYC basket. Yet NYC is still there. Nuclear Survivial is irrelevant to whether or not NYC will recover or not, which is the point of conversation.
My whole point is, the internet age will end. It may not be with its destruction, but it will end.

Also for those wondering, US Military use of the internet is horrible compared to civilian word, except for CYBER, who get everything new.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
I did mean multiple not one.

I meant the Nukes would cover the country which would include an EMP effect. The wording was wrong.

My whole point is, the internet age will end. It may not be with its destruction, but it will end.
Okay... but anybody out to nuke the US is going to prioritize hitting New York so the folks that move to the countryside and telecommute via Zoom may now be unemployed but at least they're (maybe) still alive. This is no reasonable argument against internet telecommuting.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Won't get past the ionosphere. At worst we loose some of our satellite coverage, but space is full of all sorts of electromagnetic troubles and space craft are built to de3al with it as much as their mass budget allows.
I guess that's just Hollywood not accounting for how tech really works or has advanced
 

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