what if leftists caused 911

[S'task]

I thought that Bush's attacks were on same-sex marriage and that he was silent about transgenderism?

"Transgenderism" wasn't even a thing back then. I'm not even kidding, "Transsexual" was the term then and it was still categorized as a major psychological disorder and required considerable checkoffs from psychologists and long term talk therapy before transitioning was even on the table. The level of medical control on it basically meant that only those people who had serious and well established "gender dysphoria" were even considered for such treatments, and that was considered basically the treatment of last resort after all other options to correct the dysphoria were exhausted.

As such, most on the right didn't even consider it a major issue in the culture war because it basically wasn't, those who transitioned were basically people with a serious mental illness that our best (and last resort) treatment was transitioning. As such they were mostly pitied.

It wasn't until the early 2010s when the psychological definitions were changed and transition went from a last resort that took years of therapy to get to, to a first resort that we saw this sudden influx of transtrenders and the use of trans as a wedge issue.

 

[WolfBear]

"Transgenderism" wasn't even a thing back then. I'm not even kidding, "Transsexual" was the term then and it was still categorized as a major psychological disorder and required considerable checkoffs from psychologists and long term talk therapy before transitioning was even on the table. The level of medical control on it basically meant that only those people who had serious and well established "gender dysphoria" were even considered for such treatments, and that was considered basically the treatment of last resort after all other options to correct the dysphoria were exhausted.

As such, most on the right didn't even consider it a major issue in the culture war because it basically wasn't, those who transitioned were basically people with a serious mental illness that our best (and last resort) treatment was transitioning. As such they were mostly pitied.

It wasn't until the early 2010s when the psychological definitions were changed and transition went from a last resort that took years of therapy to get to, to a first resort that we saw this sudden influx of transtrenders and the use of trans as a wedge issue.

For what it's worth, I think that the gatekeeping in regards to transgender people in the past was too excessive. For instance, this compelled some aspiring eunuchs (who could be viewed as a type of non-binary people) to get back-alley castrations since they could not get them done in a safe, medical setting. Seriously.

 

[Simonbob]

For what it's worth, I think that the gatekeeping in regards to transgender people in the past was too excessive. For instance, this compelled some aspiring eunuchs (who could be viewed as a type of non-binary people) to get back-alley castrations since they could not get them done in a safe, medical setting. Seriously.

That, alone, tells me that they're crazy.

They needed to be locked up for their own safety.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I thought that Bush's attacks were on same-sex marriage and that he was silent about transgenderism?

That was before, in this theoretical scenario, a bunch of woke, CRT pushing, they/them, allied, groomers leveled part of New York City.

"Transgenderism" wasn't even a thing back then. I'm not even kidding, "Transsexual" was the term then and it was still categorized as a major psychological disorder and required considerable checkoffs from psychologists and long term talk therapy before transitioning was even on the table. The level of medical control on it basically meant that only those people who had serious and well established "gender dysphoria" were even considered for such treatments, and that was considered basically the treatment of last resort after all other options to correct the dysphoria were exhausted.

As such, most on the right didn't even consider it a major issue in the culture war because it basically wasn't, those who transitioned were basically people with a serious mental illness that our best (and last resort) treatment was transitioning. As such they were mostly pitied.

It wasn't until the early 2010s when the psychological definitions were changed and transition went from a last resort that took years of therapy to get to, to a first resort that we saw this sudden influx of transtrenders and the use of trans as a wedge issue.

Exactly, the scenario in the OP postulates that a bunch of militant leftist, CRT/Gender theory pushing maniacs blow up the twin towers...The reaction to the groomer faction of that alliance would be far more visceral than any other..because it would be an insane assault on children by an ideology of pedos who just incinerated 3,500 people.

For what it's worth, I think that the gatekeeping in regards to transgender people in the past was too excessive. For instance, this compelled some aspiring eunuchs (who could be viewed as a type of non-binary people) to get back-alley castrations since they could not get them done in a safe, medical setting. Seriously.

So what you're saying, is that instead of shutting down all the large scale insane asylums to prevent abuses therein, President Reagan should have just nuked public sector Unions.

 

[WolfBear]

That, alone, tells me that they're crazy.

They needed to be locked up for their own safety.

Why exactly are they crazy? BIID exists, you know?

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Why exactly are they crazy? BIID exists, you know?

...Which is a disorder. A grotesque, seriously dangerous disorder that leads to really depraved fetishism such a desire by gay men with BIID to become "nuggets".

A person should be institutionalized or medicated and treated for.

 

[WolfBear]

...Which is a disorder.

A person should be institutionalized or medicated and treated for.

And if treatment doesn't work? Then what?

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

And if treatment doesn't work? Then what?

In the mental hospital forever they go.

Sorry, but people with BIID don't get to live that nugget life.

You are not allowed to mutilate yourself to redress a mental disorder.

Transitioning shouldn't even be legal...much less..amputation...as a placebo.

 

[WolfBear]

In the mental hospital forever you go.

Sorry, but people with BIID don't get to live that nugget life.

How exactly is BIID different from transgenderism when both of these might be caused by atypical brain structuring?

The Desire for Amputation or Paralyzation: Evidence for Structural Brain Anomalies in Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID)

.

Desire to amputate healthy limbs shows up in brain scans

Scans of people with the "body integrity identity disorder" show an abnormal response in areas that form a mental body map

www.newscientist.com

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

How exactly is BIID different from transgenderism when both of these might be caused by atypical brain structuring?

The Desire for Amputation or Paralyzation: Evidence for Structural Brain Anomalies in Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID)

.

Desire to amputate healthy limbs shows up in brain scans

Scans of people with the "body integrity identity disorder" show an abnormal response in areas that form a mental body map

www.newscientist.com

I'm not contending they are.

I'm contending both troons and nuggets need to be put in homes forever if neuroscience can't find a way to drug them until they don't want to maul themselves or in the case of troons..groom/rape children after mauling themselves anymore.

You misunderstand me sir, I'm not someone who believes these people should be allowed by the state to "be their true selves" I am someone who believes their "true selves" are a violent and dangerous delusion that needs to be removed from their psyche.

 

[WolfBear]

I'm not contending they are.

I'm contending both troons and nuggets need to be put in homes forever if neuroscience can't find a way to drug them until they don't want to maul themselves or in the case of troons..groom children after mauling themselves anymore.

You misunderstand me sir, I'm not someone who believes these people should be allowed by the state to "be their true selves" I am someone who believes their "true selves" are a violent and dangerous delusion that needs to be removed from their psyche.

Well, I honestly view your approach as being excessively cruel.

What are your thoughts about aspiring cross-dressers such as myself?

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Well, I honestly view your approach as being excessively cruel.

We have atrophied as a culture to the point where someone arguing that medical transitioning is one of the most violent human rights abuses perpetrated today and that they need to be treated for their illness/defect/disorder is cruel and inhumane.

I am not surprise.

What are your thoughts about aspiring cross-dressers such as myself?

Cross dressing on its own, is not in and of itself a symptom of a mental disorder nor does it place children in danger in and of itself? So go be fabulous?

You as a grown ass man wanting to look good in a dress is a personal affair.

You wanting a 9 year old to do the same just because you also do so..is where I'd have a problem.

I'm talking neurological issues brother (Or should I say sister ) not, fucking hobbies.

Unless you have dysphoria in which case..for the love of god find alternatives to mangling yourself.

 

[Simonbob]

Well, I honestly view your approach as being excessively cruel.

What are your thoughts about aspiring cross-dressers such as myself?

The first surgery for trans, I'm told, is neutering.

This stuff starts with distorting your biological balance with hormones, then mutilation, then a bunch of cosmetic surgeries to make you look like something you still aren't.


Frankly, it's horrible stuff. And, 87% later say they regret it.


Crossdressing isn't particually healthy, but you're not maiming yourself or others, so I don't really see it as my problem.



As for being cruel? I'm against kids being broken and maimed. You can call that cruel, I can call you a monster. If an adult wants to cripple themselves, well, I think that's nuts, but it's also not my problem.

So long as you're not hurting others, it's up to you.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

And for those who call this conversation off topic. This would be almost the word for word argument on meet the press with Tim Russert who was a liberal mind ye taking @Simonbob's position the moment the coalition is explored in any depth post the terror attacks.

They won't even acknowledge CRT. They'd go right to "and New York City lies in ruins this Christmas because of a secular paramilitary cult of pedophiles"

And you just know by 03 Collin Powell will somehow be connecting Sadams Bathist Fedora regime with this drek to justify an invasion.

"He's supporting the Groomer militia! Reeee"

Edit- Thank God none of you guys asked me to explain what a Nugget is. That's not how I wanted to conclude 2021.

 

[Simonbob]

Edit- Thank God none of you guys asked me to explain what a Nugget is. That's not how I wanted to conclude 2021.

I really didn't ask.

 

[Skallagrim]

As far as domestic American leftists at the turn of the century go, I think the most openly militant tendency at the time would've been found in the anarchists of the Pacific Northwest: the predecessors of Antifa, best known at the time for kicking off the 'Battle of Seattle' in 1999 against the WTO's conference in that city. So some especially radical, and certainly far better organized/competent/successful, ancom types are your likeliest domestic leftist candidate for the alt-9/11 IMO.

Hilariously, a 'Cascadian National Party' actually launched its website... on September 9th, 2001.

It... didn't become a success.

In an ATL where far-left extremists with 'Cascadian' affiliations cause 9/11 (or any similar terrorist attack), the Cascadia crowd will face worse than merely fizzling out into obscurity. They'll be vilified as treasonous scum. (In most cases, without justification. But public opinion will care little.)

Side effect: if a would-be secessionist movement is closely linked to the terrorists, does that mean that in the ATL, Republicans reach back to their own anti-secessionist origins? In OTL, a lot of Tea Party republicans have/had "states' rights" sympathies. In this ATL, that might be different. National unity may be a central theme of the Republican platform.

 

[Circle of Willis]

Hilariously, a 'Cascadian National Party' actually launched its website... on September 9th, 2001.

It... didn't become a success.

In an ATL where far-left extremists with 'Cascadian' affiliations cause 9/11 (or any similar terrorist attack), the Cascadia crowd will face worse than merely fizzling out into obscurity. They'll be vilified as treasonous scum. (In most cases, without justification. But public opinion will care little.)

Side effect: if a would-be secessionist movement is closely linked to the terrorists, does that mean that in the ATL, Republicans reah back to their own anti-secessionist origins? In OTL, a lot of Tea Party republicans have/had "states' rights" sympathies. In this ATL, that might be different. National unity may be a central theme of the Republican platform.

Good call on the would-be Cascadians. On reflection, in a bout of irony I think their extreme-right counterparts in the Northwest Front might well get slammed by association with Cascadian secessionism, too. If Sikhs can get attacked for merely resembling Muslims IRL, why not white supremacists/neo-Nazis who want to carve an ethnostate out of the American northwest (including the proposed Cascadia) alongside eco-socialists who want to carve their own utopia out of the same area?

These types have been known to either commit grave crimes themselves or to closely associate with neo-Nazi outfits that went on to commit grave crimes (including at least one murder - one such group, 'The Order', murdered a Jewish radio host in Denver in the '80s). So even if they survive the initial public furor, I could envision the growing national-security apparatus continuing to clamp down on them both for 'promoting national disunity' and serious criminal activity anyway.