Military US Military Is Scared Americans Won't Fight For Globalism

[Agent23]

War will always change, but the need for troops on the ground never will

I mean, the Russians are stalking and killing Ukrainian infantry with FPV drones and vice versa.

So, yeah, unless the footsoldier starts evolving with the times, he is a goner.

Perhaps you are not making s distinction between infantry and occupation troops, guards and special forces infiltration units.

Because the time of large masses of soldiers advancing on foot is IMO over.

 

[Agent23]

…you do realize that mechs like Gundums are hilariously impractical and overcomplicated, right?

That series was literally inspired by starship troopers, and the MI uses powdered exoskeletons, not mechs.

And exoskeletons are something s lot of militaries are looking into right now.

 

[Zachowon]

It isn't though.
FPV drones are mainly used against vehicles.
When you have proper VSHORAD, like a C-RAAM or a CWIS, drones becomes less useful

 

[Marduk]

It isn't though.
FPV drones are mainly used against vehicles.
When you have proper VSHORAD, like a C-RAAM or a CWIS, drones becomes less useful

Yeah, unless EM weapons against low end drones get good enough, it's gonna be either return to battalion level SPAAGs like in WW2, or upgrading the autocannon turret or machinegun RWS of common armored vehicles into the same.

 

[Agent23]

It isn't though.
FPV drones are mainly used against vehicles.
When you have proper VSHORAD, like a C-RAAM or a CWIS, drones becomes less useful

Yeah, unless EM weapons against low end drones get good enough, it's gonna be either return to battalion level SPAAGs like in WW2, or upgrading the autocannon turret or machinegun RWS of common armored vehicles into the same.

Or you can maybe use counter drones and some type of broad range area denial.
Something that can shoot nets or something else that can damage the rotors.

 

[Zachowon]

Or you can maybe use counter drones and some type of broad range area denial.
Something that can shoot nets or something else that can damage the rotors.

Yes I know FPV drones have been used against infantry, but vast majority are against vics.

He'll, we have seen netting stop plenty of them, like camo nets ans the like. So the nets can work, the downside is that due to movement it isn't the easiest, so flak rounds, C-RAAMs etc are good.
He'll EW and potentially laser if that exists

 

[Marduk]

Or you can maybe use counter drones and some type of broad range area denial.
Something that can shoot nets or something else that can damage the rotors.

This ain't bugs bunny show, shooting nets, with what range?
Bullets can damage rotors just fine.

Yes I know FPV drones have been used against infantry, but vast majority are against vics.

He'll, we have seen netting stop plenty of them, like camo nets ans the like. So the nets can work, the downside is that due to movement it isn't the easiest, so flak rounds, C-RAAMs etc are good.
He'll EW and potentially laser if that exists

Nets and cages can stop them from getting small HEAT warheads close enough to pierce armor, but for protecting soft targets that's useless against frag.

 

[Agent23]

This ain't bugs bunny show, shooting nets, with what range?
Bullets can damage rotors just fine.

You'd need to be a lot more precise, and we are talking about small, grenade drop or anti-personel drone like the one in the video.

Wider area of effect would be able to knock a swarm of these.
Maybe it can be a metal net, maybe some type of grapeshot.

Nets and cages can stop them from getting small HEAT warheads close enough to pierce armor, but for protecting soft targets that's useless against frag.

The what now?

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

I mean, the Russians are stalking and killing Ukrainian infantry with FPV drones and vice versa.

So, yeah, unless the footsoldier starts evolving with the times, he is a goner.

Perhaps you are not making s distinction between infantry and occupation troops, guards and special forces infiltration units.

Because the time of large masses of soldiers advancing on foot is IMO over.

The Ukraine war cant really be used as an example of "where war is going" from a US perspective. From a US perspective it's like two 1970s armies having at each other each with a single crate of modern technology.

The options that are the most efficient for fighting a, or fighting as, 1970s army with limited modern resources are not the same as the options that would be most efficient in an American level conflict.

 

[Marduk]

You'd need to be a lot more precise, and we are talking about small, grenade drop or anti-personel drone like the one in the video.

Doable with modern targeting. They don't have a smaller target profile than a missile while being many times slower, so they are an easier target than that, while anti-missile systems for armored vehicles are exiting prototype phase, and anti-missile systems for ships are old news.

Wider area of effect would be able to knock a swarm of these.
Maybe it can be a metal net, maybe some type of grapeshot.

The what now?

Grenade fragments will get through a net or cage even if the grenade itself won't.
For protecting armored vehicles from a small shaped charge, a meter or so empty space is a lot of protection. For protecting a person or soft skinned vehicle from fragments, it's not.

 

[Zachowon]

That is why you have Frag ammo like the old SPAAGs.

 

[Agent23]

Doable with modern targeting. They don't have a smaller target profile than a missile while being many times slower, so they are an easier target than that, while anti-missile systems for armored vehicles are exiting prototype phase, and anti-missile systems for ships are old news.

I am sorry, I thought we were discussing defending INFANTRY.

Good luck mounting a CIWS and advanced computerized targeting system on Zach.

Grenade fragments will get through a net or cage even if the grenade itself won't.
For protecting armored vehicles from a small shaped charge, a meter or so empty space is a lot of protection. For protecting a person or soft skinned vehicle from fragments, it's not.

Hence you should probablyount the drone repellent on another drone.

 

[Scottty]

…you do realize that mechs like Gundums are hilariously impractical and overcomplicated, right?

Big stomping mechs are for intimidating primitive peoples who don't have access to rockets and launchers.

Still no way in hell they’ll go for it. It would be giving the Uneducated Masses Weapons of War and no one in the US political establishment is going to go for that.

Something something Second Amendment...
Also, since when do fighter pilots count as "uneducated masses"?

That series was literally inspired by starship troopers, and the MI uses powdered exoskeletons, not mechs.

And exoskeletons are something s lot of militaries are looking into right now.

The MI was fighting an enemy that depended heavily on melee combat and sheer numbers.
Replace those big-crab-claw-on-legs bugs with, say, Zerg Hydralisks, and the troopers would have been in a lot more trouble.

 

[Agent23]

Big stomping mechs are for intimidating primitive peoples who don't have access to rockets and launchers.



Something something Second Amendment...
Also, since when do fighter pilots count as "uneducated masses"?

Physically they are impractical due to the inverse square law, a high profile, lots of complex components for a bipedal walker with hands vs. A threaded vehicle with a turret and a launcher...

The MI was fighting an enemy that depended heavily on melee combat and sheer numbers.
Replace those big-crab-claw-on-legs bugs with, say, Zerg Hydralisks, and the troopers would have been in a lot more trouble.

In the book they had advanced tech, cities, a manufacturing base, etc.

 

[Marduk]

I am sorry, I thought we were discussing defending INFANTRY.

Good luck mounting a CIWS and advanced computerized targeting system on Zach.

Jeeeez, ever heard of this concept known as "combined arms"?
If the infantry can't have any vehicles or even towed weapons in 2-3km of it, that means they are probably recon or special forces, and if there are drones over them, that means they screwed up and their mission is over because that means they got spotted.
Even then, their options are a EM "rifle", MANPADS, or with the trend with fancy sight goes, wouldn't be surprised if squad LMGs would be good enough against drones.

Hence you should probablyount the drone repellent on another drone.

That is bound to be either tricky to use or very expensive.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

…you do realize that mechs like Gundums are hilariously impractical and overcomplicated, right?

Physically they are impractical due to the inverse square law, a high profile, lots of complex components for a bipedal walker with hands

These are concerns for the little guy without money to spare.

 

[Agent23]

Jeeeez, ever heard of this concept known as "combined arms"?

We were primarily speculated about infantry/small detachments/area control and pateols, and adding more expensive pieces on the board to defend it and concentrating previously more sparese forces for defense against smaller and cheaper drone swarms would be a nice lure for glide bombs, massed artillery and swarms of more a d more advanced drones.

If the infantry can't have any vehicles or even towed weapons in 2-3km of it, that means they are probably recon or special forces, and if there are drones over them, that means they screwed up and their mission is over because that means they got spotted.

And when you have a broad front like we see in the current war with lots of tenches and the like, what then?
And sometimes there is lots of space you need to guard, garrison/recon.

Even then, their options are a EM "rifle", MANPADS, or with the trend with fancy sight goes, wouldn't be surprised if squad LMGs would be good enough against drones.

A man pad is more expensive than a lot of these cheap ass drones, EM rifles - well we will see if they get adapted en masse and can work against hardened electronics.

That is bound to be either tricky to use or very expensive.

Well, we already have recorded drone fights, so yeah...

Maybe small units can be accompanied by shorter ranged but hescoer drones to provide a screen.

 

[Marduk]

We were primarily speculated about infantry/small detachments/area control and pateols, and adding more expensive pieces on the board to defend it and concentrating previously more sparese forces for defense against smaller and cheaper drone swarms would be a nice lure for glide bombs, massed artillery and swarms of more a d more advanced drones.

Such small caliber guns have coverage ranges of a kilometer or two, who said anything about concentration?
If the enemy has airstrikes, masses of artillery and shit available to spam at every .50 AA with some electronics strapped to it, drones are the least of your problems.

And when you have a broad front like we see in the current war with lots of tenches and the like, what then?
And sometimes there is lots of space you need to guard, garrison/recon.

What do you think i meant by WW2/Cold War style battalion level air defense?
Towed and truck/halftrack mounted AA had production numbers going into tens to even hundreds of thousands. With modern higher availability of light trucks, probably a larger proportion of them truck mounted.
In modern incarnation:

Excalibur Army To Deliver Ukraine With 15 Viktor Mobile Anti-aircraft Gun Systems - MilitaryLeak.COM

The Czech defense company Excalibur Army finalized the production of 15 Viktor mobile anti-aircraft gun systems for Ukraine. Ukrainian industry news site

militaryleak.com

A man pad is more expensive than a lot of these cheap ass drones, EM rifles - well we will see if they get adapted en masse and can work against hardened electronics.

Yeah, but that's for spec ops and recon that can't have a vehicle watch them from the rear with a cheap lead dispenser, for them expensive gear is kinda expected.

Well, we already have recorded drone fights, so yeah...

Maybe small units can be accompanied by shorter ranged but hescoer drones to provide a screen.

And those drone fights show how fucking tricky it is, and high chances of damage even to the attacking drone. Also doesn't work against suicide FPVs because they come in too fast to intercept like this yet are some of the cheapest.
They may be cheap, but a burst of 7.62, .50 or 20mm would usually be even cheaper and quicker.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

That series was literally inspired by starship troopers, and the MI uses powdered exoskeletons, not mechs.

And exoskeletons are something s lot of militaries are looking into right now.

If we want a bit more realistic exosuits, there’s always Knightmare Frames from Code Geass. Or something like this:

Japan Real Life Mech Kuratas

 

[Agent23]

Such small caliber guns have coverage ranges of a kilometer or two, who said anything about concentration?
If the enemy has airstrikes, masses of artillery and shit available to spam at every .50 AA with some electronics strapped to it, drones are the least of your problems.

Still, you get to pay for a lot of less capable units, and your money for hescy weapons is reduced.

What do you think i meant by WW2/Cold War style battalion level air defense?

Much bigger troop formation, I'd assume, with specialized air defense vehicles.

Towed and truck/halftrack mounted AA had production numbers going into tens to even hundreds of thousands. With modern higher availability of light trucks, probably a larger proportion of them truck mounted.

If those can actually counter drones correctly, and survive against other bigger threats like light artillery, mortars, etc.
At this rete the target gets juicer and juicer and easier to track and spot for artillery, and possible in dsnger of anti-vehicpe mines.And the units will be limited to fairly easy to access ground where such vehicles can operate, this negdting some of the infantry's advdnteges.
Being able to spread out and fo through more difficult tersin without sinking in mud or needing something resembling a good road.

In modern incarnation:

Excalibur Army To Deliver Ukraine With 15 Viktor Mobile Anti-aircraft Gun Systems - MilitaryLeak.COM

The Czech defense company Excalibur Army finalized the production of 15 Viktor mobile anti-aircraft gun systems for Ukraine. Ukrainian industry news site

militaryleak.com

Great, we are reinventing the technical truck, might as well buy a Toyota Helix at this rate.

Yeah, but that's for spec ops and recon that can't have a vehicle watch them from the rear with a cheap lead dispenser, for them expensive gear is kinda expected.

And I think that for adequate garrisoning/ground control you will need a lot more flexible, small detached units.

And those drone fights show how fucking tricky it is, and high chances of damage even to the attacking drone. Also doesn't work against suicide FPVs because they come in too fast to intercept like this yet are some of the cheapest.

Original air combat IIRC started when a bunch of WWI pilots started shooting themselves with revolvers IIRC, they were shooting their own propellers in the process, things evolved quite fast from there.

They may be cheap, but a burst of 7.62, .50 or 20mm would usually be even cheaper and quicker.

If you can adequately hit a bunch of moving tsrgrte coming at you at speed, maybe.

Assuming they don't use computer assisted controls and guidance to dodge, or some of them don't disperse smoke or chaff to fuck with your visibility or sensors.