Turtledoves world war timeline. Got me thinking

[Coyote]

Yeah he's not a great writer but when book stores existed and the internet was strange.

For me it was a used Bondi blue apple from 1999 (it was 2002)

I hadn't found online much, but now it's not that great.

But I thought, it could be better.

I found a halo one abandoned that was KICK ASS, but it was dead.

Basically they turned around but were trying to decide a diplomatic approach, the colonization fleet was still in orbit, when the Forward Until Dawn shows up, half of it.

They advanced quickly shenanigans.

They tow it into orbit, access the computer wake him up, actually rush with a lot of help from Cortana the Earth, when the Covenant shows up.

Kills their Emperor but gets shot down because they aren't idiots and have planetary and orbital defenses. For meteorites but it works, they get half of the planet glassed.

About half of it isn't but really damaged, they wake up the colonist and prepare for the Covenant to come back, with Cortana really speeding them up because you know now they actually get it.

That was cool, and I can't find it.

Well then there's one where they show up in 1991.

And invade.

I don't think they would so.

Presenting a poorly outlined idea.

So they go, send a message when they get to Mars home.

These people are definitely advanced, but we can live in space.

And we are orbiting a cold miserable rock with a thin atmosphere, and low gravity.

But it's free.

Then notice they don't live much in those desert areas, we could buy them.

Look what they don't have, you know starships, hydrogen fuel.

Oh look they're not united, what, they're fighting over oil, and dumping it right off one of our most habitable places.

So they actually take time to learn a little bit about us.

And just say, these areas you have we want here.

You're not gonna miss these states that can't govern themselves too well, we don't want all of it.

And you, (Australia we will imminent domain those areas you don't live in but we will leave say the southern part the coastal east to you, and pay for your losses.

You can't refuse because we control orbit, but we have hit a snag and our colonization fleet is right behind us.

We hit a spacial anomaly, to that big country falling apart.

Were gonna govern you too till you can govern yourselves.

And you, with the little bit of desert we want.

We will help you claim that hat up there, for some reason you've not taken that's got all those nice rivers even help you make your deserts bloom.

We have amazing irrigation, we also have some plants animals that thrive in that.

So, George Bush, sells out the world.

Not all of it, but when Canada actually does protest.

They actually are invaded.

It sounds ridiculous doesn't it.

But I'm still typing

 

[ATP]

Still better then OTL.

 

[Coyote]

It really is isn't it.

He could have made that SO much better.

Why didn't they just go for diplomacy, surely they figured that out after, but they could have just directed terms accordingly.

They also could focus their efforts on destroying human governments most threatening to sentient life.

Even with a sense of irony.

They find out about the camps, Germany isn't near anywhere they want, but puppetizing the area.

Absolutely they do want North Africa secure, surely even if they did come from a planet that only had small boats, they still have some concept of a coast guard.

From that you get an actual Race navy, and give them a name maybe call the planet and their species by their own language.

They can even do this with a sense of irony.

South of their empire is a liberated Congo that now has its own colony in Europe, Belgium.

Where they toil away and resistance is met by lending a hand, from the New Congolese. It's not hard to get your hand chopped off in what was once Belgium.

 

[ATP]

It really is isn't it.

He could have made that SO much better.

Why didn't they just go for diplomacy, surely they figured that out after, but they could have just directed terms accordingly.

They also could focus their efforts on destroying human governments most threatening to sentient life.

Even with a sense of irony.

They find out about the camps, Germany isn't near anywhere they want, but puppetizing the area.

Absolutely they do want North Africa secure, surely even if they did come from a planet that only had small boats, they still have some concept of a coast guard.

From that you get an actual Race navy, and give them a name maybe call the planet and their species by their own language.

They can even do this with a sense of irony.

South of their empire is a liberated Congo that now has its own colony in Europe, Belgium.

Where they toil away and resistance is met by lending a hand, from the New Congolese. It's not hard to get your hand chopped off in what was once Belgium.

Indeed.Unfortunatelly,they were made by author as Race unable to change their plans,so when they were send on conqest,they go on conqest.

 

[Coyote]

Which is ridiculous.

I think they would have intentionally slowed the development of most of the cultures on their world, but you'd have one on top.

That would be their first city and empire.

Which is why they do pay attention to the Emperor and who he mates with.

The rest of them are genetically engineered to breed in groups like that.

See

It doesn't take much to make the Race more interesting.

So the ones they sent would be a cast of soliders that wouldn't on their own adapt well.

But the ships commanders would be from the ruling caste.

Man he could have done so much more with them.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

The first 4 books of his World War series are awesome, Colonization is hot garbage. Homeward Bound is sort of interesting though. The biggest flaw of the series IMO is Sam Yaeger, I just really disliked that character and always wanted to skip his POV's.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

So they go, send a message when they get to Mars home.

These people are definitely advanced, but we can live in space.

Wouldn't happen without completely rewriting who the Race are. The Race culture has two main traits. One is an almost OCD level dedication to conformity, stability and adherence to orders. The second is that due to being unified for so long and all their previous conquests were such one sided walk overs the concept of "diplomacy" is theoretical roughly as meaningful in the day to day live of the Race as a medieval alchemist musings on the philosopher stone would be to us at best and utterly alien to their mindset at worst.

To the Race the conquest of Tosev 3 isn't due to resources, population or politics or even dickish behavior. Its simply a fact of life. The Race conquer and expand in much the same way breathing is to us. The idea of simply "buying" land would not only miss the point of their mission but is such an Out of Context concept for the Race as a whole it wouldn't even occur to Fleetlord Atvar to dismiss it.

When confronted with evidence the iron age Big Uglies he was expecting to quickly subdue have, from the Race's perspective, instantly progressed into an industrial society and explosive metal bombs not to mention have began to rudimentary attempts to expand their reach beyond their own marshy planet's atmosphere Fleet Lord Atvar would almost certainly accept the humiliations that he could not conquer Tosev 3.

At which point he'd either simply bail and return the Conquest Fleet back to Home or, more likely in my opinion, sacrifice a ship or two as Kinetic Kill ships to wipe out Tosev 3's population both as a face saving measure and to eliminate what would be almost certainly be perceived as a legitimate threat to the Race empire.

Fleetlord Atvar is pragmatic enough to realize Big Uglies innovate far too quickly to be left to their devises for the decades it would take for a message to reach Home and shiplord Straha is enough of an unorthodox radical to foresee this if the former doesn't.

So you'd have to rewrite the Race from the ground up at which point they become a lot less interesting and more of a generic alien invader.

From that you get an actual Race navy, and give them a name maybe call the planet and their species by their own language.

I disagree. The Race being called the Race beautifully illustrates that they have been unified for so long they no longer posses the concept for an "Us vs Them" mentality. They simply ARE and everyone else will BECOME.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

You know I just now realized the Krolp would also exist in the Worldwar verse, They are from Vilcabamba another Turtledove alien invasion story. The Krolp unlike the Race have incomprehensible technology, they also shit stomped 22nd century Earth within hours. Believe every human government launching all of their WMD's and armies managed to kill like 40-50 Krolp. I assume the Race eventually runs into those douchebags in timelines where they flee Earth.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

You know I just now realized the Krolp would also exist in the Worldwar verse, They are from Vilcabamba another Turtledove alien invasion story. The Krolp unlike the Race have incomprehensible technology, they also shit stomped 22nd century Earth within hours. Believe every human government launching all of their WMD's and armies managed to kill like 40-50 Krolp. I assume the Race eventually runs into those douchebags in timelines where they flee Earth.

That would be an irony of ironies. The Race avoid poking the human bear, and essentially being annexed by the 21st century, only to stumble into a foe which makes Big Uglies look like joke in comparison. xD

I remember there was one epic crossover fanfic I read years ago which mixed the World War series, the Domination of Draka, John Ringo's Legacy series and likely a few others I'm forgetting/didn't recognize. While it focused mostly on Earth factions, Avtar and the Race got a few scenes fighting the Posleen that let them be bad ass.

 

[Coyote]

The first 4 books of his World War series are awesome, Colonization is hot garbage. Homeward Bound is sort of interesting though. The biggest flaw of the series IMO is Sam Yaeger, I just really disliked that character and always wanted to skip his POV's.

I didn't like how the Race kept the same people in command, unless they age much slower than us.

The only thing, I actually am disappointed he didn't continue after that book.

I want to know what happened

So the Race knew about a "cold" world, I bet they didn't like it, but we would feel right at Home.

America ends up with it's own planet, and only a piece of it's own.

But no matter, that becomes the center of an interstellar empire.

Let's call it New Virginia, but it's basically New Caprica.

It's a planet with a climate similar to Canada, but with four fold Canada's living space.

 

[Agent23]

I remember there was one epic crossover fanfic I read years ago which mixed the World War series, the Domination of Draka, John Ringo's Legacy series and likely a few others I'm forgetting/didn't recognize. While it focused mostly on Earth factions, Avtar and the Race got a few scenes fighting the Posleen that let them be bad ass.

Got a link or do you remember the name?

Draka and legacy of the Aldenata getting merged is eitertaining enough, but how didn't the Darheel or the Posleen fuck over the race long ago?
And how did the Space Elves let the Draka grow into what they were, canonically they run Earth's governments from behind the scenes and have been doing so for centuries.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

I didn't like how the Race kept the same people in command, unless they age much slower than us.

That is basically who the race are, They are very slow to change. Straha and his faction does attempt to remove Atvar as well and Ussmak does lead a mutiny over what he considers bad leadership.

 

[Coyote]

That is basically who the race are, They are very slow to change. Straha and his faction does attempt to remove Atvar as well and Ussmak does lead a mutiny over what he considers bad leadership.

Right

He wanted to nuke the planet, which really they could have destroyed most of the major population centers and kept the Deserts.

Eeh or what if they just wanted the planet, and maybe wanted to keep say a few hundred of us alive as curiosities for their zoos.

That would have been dark.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Honestly sounds like you should just use the Krolp instead.

 

[Coyote]

Honestly sounds like you should just use the Krolp instead.

Tell me about this.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Tell me about this.

They are from Turtledoves story "Vilcabamba" they invade 22nd century Earth and with all of the armies WMD's and technology of that era we last a few hours and only manage to kill around 40-50 Krolp. The story itself takes place after the initial invasion and a failed uprising. It deals with a US rump state that tries to resist Krolp mining expansion but it doesn't end well for them and within another 50 years the US no longer exists.

 

[Typhonis]

Was any reason given why the Lizards didn't bring any of their space based industry with them? Yes, I know. It was written in the 90's BUT they built several starships , more than likely in orbit and using Nuclear Thermal Rockets. So why not bring along a bit of industry so they could maintain their military forces?

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Was any reason given why the Lizards didn't bring any of their space based industry with them? Yes, I know. It was written in the 90's BUT they built several starships , more than likely in orbit and using Nuclear Thermal Rockets. So why not bring along a bit of industry so they could maintain their military forces?

They had ground based production stuff and their ships had some production as well. The biggest factor for a lack of it though is that the Lizards believed they would be fighting medieval humans.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Got a link or do you remember the name?

Draka and legacy of the Aldenata getting merged is eitertaining enough, but how didn't the Darheel or the Posleen fuck over the race long ago?
And how did the Space Elves let the Draka grow into what they were, canonically they run Earth's governments from behind the scenes and have been doing so for centuries.

Sadly I'm afraid it was far too long ago, more than a decade, since I last read it and I only remember bits of pieces most notably one of the first encounters between the Race army and the Posleen where Atvar, going full 1950's, deliberately baits them into position and spams nuclear missiles at them to stop their advance.

 

[Typhonis]

They had ground based production stuff and their ships had some production as well. The biggest factor for a lack of it though is that the Lizards believed they would be fighting medieval humans.

They are still, what 20 years from resupply? That is a problem and if they are using chemical slugthrowers. Well, how long do the primers last? Because old ammunition is a safety hazard. Thus you need to use the resources at hand to repair equipment and resupply your troops. Even if you are facing primitives.