Turkic migrations without the spread of Islam?

[WolfBear]

What would Turkic migration have looked like without the spread of Islam? In real life, after various Turkic tribes, such as the Seljuks, proto-Ottomans, et cetera adopted Islam, they migrated from Central Asia to Anatolia and set up base there, eventually forming empires such as the Sultanate of Rum and the Ottoman Empire (which subsequently expanded elsewhere as well). But how would Turkic migration patterns have been different without Islam? As in, had Islam never actually been created at all?

For the record, for reference, here is a present-day map showing the locations of the speakers of various Turkic languages in the present-day:

 

[WolfBear]

FWIW, the idea of vast Turkic empires existed even before Islam; for instance, there was the Gokturk Khanate (later the Gokturk Khanates, plural) in the 6th and 7th centuries:

 

[Buba]

IMO no difference

 

[ATP]

IMO no difference

Indeed.They would still kick ERE and persian asses.

 

[WolfBear]

Indeed.They would still kick ERE and persian asses.

The earliest Muslims were Arabs, not Turks. We're talking about Turks here.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

I'm just wondering if the proto-Turkic peoples would have more of a success in trying to conquer parts of what had been various Chinese lands under a variety of dynasties.

 

[Ricardolindo]

What would Turkic migration have looked like without the spread of Islam? In real life, after various Turkic tribes, such as the Seljuks, proto-Ottomans, et cetera adopted Islam, they migrated from Central Asia to Anatolia and set up base there, eventually forming empires such as the Sultanate of Rum and the Ottoman Empire (which subsequently expanded elsewhere as well). But how would Turkic migration patterns have been different without Islam? As in, had Islam never actually been created at all?

For the record, for reference, here is a present-day map showing the locations of the speakers of various Turkic languages in the present-day:

Most Turks of Central Asia are likely to convert to Buddhism. The Turks of the Eurasian steppe would presumably remain pagan for several centuries like in our timeline. If some Turks still migrate to Azerbaijan and Anatolia, they would probably convert to Christianity, though they may still assimilate the locals.

 

[TheRejectionist]

I would probably not be able to make jokes to make Armenian genocide jokes to my gf.

 

[WolfBear]

I would probably not be able to make jokes to make Armenian genocide jokes to my gf.

She's Turkish?

Most Turks of Central Asia are likely to convert to Buddhism. The Turks of the Eurasian steppe would presumably remain pagan for several centuries like in our timeline. If some Turks still migrate to Azerbaijan and Anatolia, they would probably convert to Christianity, though they may still assimilate the locals.

So, we could still see a Turkic-Anatolian mix in Anatolia, only Christian rather than Muslim?

Fun fact: There is a noticeable amount of East Eurasian ancestry among Anatolians right now in real life:

 

[TheRejectionist]

She's Turkish?



So, we could still see a Turkic-Anatolian mix in Anatolia, only Christian rather than Muslim?

Fun fact: There is a noticeable amount of East Eurasian ancestry among Anatolians right now in real life:

She is. From Aegaen region. You will probably not believe me, but the second and third joke was on that subject.

The first one was much more nastier.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

It might be amusing in a world without the Islamization of the Turkic peoples, the Turkic language could use the Greek alphabet if they were christianized.

 

[Atarlost]

The Turks didn't migrate because of Islam. They adopted Islam because they migrated. Without Islam those who migrated into regions where Islam held sway OTL would instead adopt Nestorianism. Since Nestorianism doesn't provide the excuse of Jihad for conquest those who make it further west may find it more advantageous to adopt Orthodoxy.

 

[WolfBear]

It might be amusing in a world without the Islamization of the Turkic peoples, the Turkic language could use the Greek alphabet if they were christianized.

Interesting idea. A Turkic Cyrillic, anyone?

The Turks didn't migrate because of Islam. They adopted Islam because they migrated. Without Islam those who migrated into regions where Islam held sway OTL would instead adopt Nestorianism. Since Nestorianism doesn't provide the excuse of Jihad for conquest those who make it further west may find it more advantageous to adopt Orthodoxy.

If they became Orthodox, would they actually be enemies with the Byzantine Empire, though?

 

[Ricardolindo]

The Turks didn't migrate because of Islam. They adopted Islam because they migrated. Without Islam those who migrated into regions where Islam held sway OTL would instead adopt Nestorianism. Since Nestorianism doesn't provide the excuse of Jihad for conquest those who make it further west may find it more advantageous to adopt Orthodoxy.

I find Buddhism more likely to dominate in Central Asia than Nestorianism.

 

[Atarlost]

If they became Orthodox, would they actually be enemies with the Byzantine Empire, though?

I think technically no, but I'm not sure that would change much. Someone like Mehmed II might besiege and conquer Constantinople, but it would probably be considered a civil war and the new Turkish dynasty considered just as legitimately Roman as any dynasty of either side of the Roman Empire that claimed the purple after a civil war.

 

[WolfBear]

I think technically no, but I'm not sure that would change much. Someone like Mehmed II might besiege and conquer Constantinople, but it would probably be considered a civil war and the new Turkish dynasty considered just as legitimately Roman as any dynasty of either side of the Roman Empire that claimed the purple after a civil war.

Interesting; that makes sense.

I find Buddhism more likely to dominate in Central Asia than Nestorianism.

Similar for Afghanistan and Pakistan?

 

[WolfBear]

She is. From Aegaen region. You will probably not believe me, but the second and third joke was on that subject.

The first one was much more nastier.

I don't see three jokes here?

 

[TheRejectionist]

I don't see three jokes here?

The first one is "What's the difference between a cockroach and Turkish person? Well both are annoying, but you don't feel the urge to squash the first!"

 

[WolfBear]

The first one is "What's the difference between a cockroach and Turkish person? Well both are annoying, but you don't feel the urge to squash the first!"

But you never used the word "cockroach" here before?

 

[Buba]

A Turkic Cyrillic, anyone?

It exists. Or rather - existed. Do a search for
"Karamanlides"
Also - in the Soviet Union the various Turkish languages were/are written in Cyrillic ...