Tito killed in Operation Rösselsprung

sillygoose

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What if the German intelligence had been better coordinated (there were 3 different units gathering intel and didn't share amongst each other) and their commando operation was properly concentrated and succeeded in killing Tito and taking his entire HQ? What impact does this have on the war in Yugoslavia for the rest of WW2 and the aftermath?
 
Well, if they had better intel, then they would hit the wrong target.
Anyway, it would be quite a blow to partisans and worse, the highest surviving members would be Ranković and Đilas, with Ranković probably winning the power struggle, making Yugoslavia more pliable Soviet satellite and taking much harsher attitude towards Croats than Tito.
 
I would think that without Tito, the struggle between the Partisans and Chetniks would be paused for a bit, before resuming. At the very least, we could see Yugoslavia go the way of Greece IOTL, where there was a civil war that ultimately ended in a Royalist victory. Realistically, the Western Allies might be forced to give their support once again to the Chetniks, despite their spotty record.

Ideally, the Western Allies would secure the independence of Slovenia and Croatia, while a rump Yugoslavia consisting of Serbia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Vojvodina, and Macedonia would end up becoming a more pliable Soviet satellite state. However, how it affects Enver Hoxha's Albania on the other hand, that would be interesting to see. Alternatively, Macedonia could potentially remain a part of Bulgaria if Blaze Koneski doesn't become prominent, albeit as a socialist entity.
 
Well, if they had better intel, then they would hit the wrong target.
Anyway, it would be quite a blow to partisans and worse, the highest surviving members would be Ranković and Đilas, with Ranković probably winning the power struggle, making Yugoslavia more pliable Soviet satellite and taking much harsher attitude towards Croats than Tito.
I would think that without Tito, the struggle between the Partisans and Chetniks would be paused for a bit, before resuming. At the very least, we could see Yugoslavia go the way of Greece IOTL, where there was a civil war that ultimately ended in a Royalist victory. Realistically, the Western Allies might be forced to give their support once again to the Chetniks, despite their spotty record.

Ideally, the Western Allies would secure the independence of Slovenia and Croatia, while a rump Yugoslavia consisting of Serbia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Vojvodina, and Macedonia would end up becoming a more pliable Soviet satellite state. However, how it affects Enver Hoxha's Albania on the other hand, that would be interesting to see. Alternatively, Macedonia could potentially remain a part of Bulgaria if Blaze Koneski doesn't become prominent, albeit as a socialist entity.
Might the Soviets just stay without the seemingly pliable Tito in the driver seat? Might too the Yugoslav partisans fall apart without Tito at the decisive moment? That could have some pretty serious impact on the Hungarian campaign of 1944-45 if the Soviets have to keep large parts of the 3rd Ukrainian Front in Yugoslavia to tie down German forces, which then has major impact on the post-war situation.

It looks like in June 1944, a month after this POD, when the Wallies effectively agreed to recognize Tito as the leader of the Yugoslavs and had the government in exile merge with his movement, so might this be prevented and the partisan movement fracture?
 
Would the Western Allies be willing to recognize Ranković or even Djilas as the leader of the Partisans? If they’re going to align with the Soviets, that would only incentivize the WAllies to recognize the futility of putting Yugoslavia back together.

Although a more possible candidate to lead a pro-Soviet Yugoslav state would be Peko Dapčević, and he might preserve the federal nature of Yugoslavia. ITTL, Yugoslavia might be one of the most loyal Soviet satellite states instead or in addition to Bulgaria.
 
Might too the Yugoslav partisans fall apart without Tito at the decisive moment?
Perhaps if this happened in 1941 or 1942, but by 1944 the party discipline was well entrenched in the partisan army, so while there would be disruptions until Ranković could assemble new HQ and reestablish communication connections, their propaganda could use the martyred supreme leader very effectively.

It looks like in June 1944, a month after this POD, when the Wallies effectively agreed to recognize Tito as the leader of the Yugoslavs and had the government in exile merge with his movement, so might this be prevented and the partisan movement fracture?
The Allies still needed someone fighting in Yugoslavia so death of Tito will delay recognition for couple of months at most.
 
Perhaps if this happened in 1941 or 1942, but by 1944 the party discipline was well entrenched in the partisan army, so while there would be disruptions until Ranković could assemble new HQ and reestablish communication connections, their propaganda could use the martyred supreme leader very effectively.

The Allies still needed someone fighting in Yugoslavia so death of Tito will delay recognition for couple of months at most.
Rankovic would have been killed or captured too since he was with Tito in the cave. In the OP I said it wasn't simply Tito who would be taken out, but the entire HQ in the cave.
German air raid on Drvar , 25 May 1944. Rankovic was found along with Tito and other members of the Supreme Headquarters in lumber cave .

Kind of hard to reestablish an HQ or disseminate organized propaganda when the entire supreme HQ staff has been wiped out.

Marshal Tito stands with his Cabinet Ministers and Supreme Staff at his mountain headquarters in Yugoslavia on 14 May 1944. From left to right in the front row are Dr Vladislav S. Ribnikar (Minister of Information), Colonel Sulejman Filipović, Edvard Kardelj and Marshal Tito. From left to right in the back row are Major General Arso Jovanović (Chief of Staff), Radonja Golubović (Tito's secretary), Rodoljub Čolaković (Secretary of the National Anti-Fascist Council), en:Edvard Kocbek (Minister of Education) and Lieutenant General Sreten Žujović. Tito's dog, Tiger, can also be seen in the foreground.
So they'd all be lost. How do the partisans survive as an organized group without all of the above?
 
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I probably mixed him with Ribar, I don't have the book anymore, but I recall that several of his staff were at the new HQ, some 15 km away, along with most of his protection battalion, it's why the Drvar cave was poorly protected.
 
I probably mixed him with Ribar, I don't have the book anymore, but I recall that several of his staff were at the new HQ, some 15 km away, along with most of his protection battalion, it's why the Drvar cave was poorly protected.
Ribar was killed in 1943.

The only reference in the books and papers I have on the operation that I can find to a different location is the area where the foreign missions moved, not anything with Tito's HQ or staff. Apparently Tito got pretty complacent by 1944 due to the Italian surrender and ignored a lot of intel about the airborne attack such as all the aerial recon activity that caused the foreign missions to relocate.
 
Ribar was killed in 1943.
Ivan Ribar, not the Ivo Ribar. Tito did indeed get complacent, but his subordinates didn't, that's why new HQ was prepared, due to concern that Ustashe inteligence learned about the location of the Drvar HQ. Tito however still often stayed in the Drvar HQ over night (driving his intelligence chief and defense battalion commander crazy with worry) and did the same the night before the attack (there was celebration in the town and he could never say no to party).
 

What if the German intelligence had been better coordinated (there were 3 different units gathering intel and didn't share amongst each other) and their commando operation was properly concentrated and succeeded in killing Tito and taking his entire HQ? What impact does this have on the war in Yugoslavia for the rest of WW2 and the aftermath?

First - soviet yugoslavia.Nothing changed in the long term,they would still dissintegrate.
But,like @sillygoose said,it would keep soviet forces there occupied,Hungary fighting better,and maybe some kind of Western Hungary as a result.Althought they would need independent Croatia to survive.

That would be change,stronger Hungary in UE.
 
First - soviet yugoslavia.Nothing changed in the long term,they would still dissintegrate.
But,like @sillygoose said,it would keep soviet forces there occupied,Hungary fighting better,and maybe some kind of Western Hungary as a result.Althought they would need independent Croatia to survive.

That would be change,stronger Hungary in UE.
If the partisans fall apart (fragment into independent competing groups) in May 1944 due to losing their military command structure the knock on effects could go well beyond just the Hungarian/Balkan front going better for the Axis.

The Chetniks now would be the only other major organized group of militants in the country and given their support for the Axis and document history of fighting the Partisans with the decapitating of the Partisans and enhancement of the prestige of the Axis as a result as well as the Chetniks being disfavored at Tehran (which also meant loss of material support) plus the Wallies not invading the Balkans Mihailović would side with the Axis to fight the Partisans. This would be to establish his dominance of Yugoslav military groups and thus ensure his power within the region when Soviet forces arrive. With the Partisans cut off from the Allies missions and thus losing material and air support, as well as being fragmented due to the loss of central leadership as well as directives from the government in exile that helped unify the movement in 1944, they'd likely be nearly destroyed by the Chetniks and defections, if not people just going home due to loss of morale.

Though without a doubt he'd try to switch allegiance to the Soviets as soon as convenient as per OTL, until they show up in strength his group would likely make Yugoslavia quiet for the Axis, which likely helps the pull out of their forces in Greece and throughout the region. Given Mihailović's policy of non-confrontation with the occupiers to save civilian lives we could see substantially more German forces retreating intact out of Greece and presenting a much more formidable force in Croatia. You might potentially see him end up siding with the Axis if Soviet forces target him for being an anti-communist and collaborator with the Axis. That could well change everything to do with the war in the region.

As it was IOTL the Chetniks fought the Bulgarians, which probably would happen here too given that they were traditional enemies, which once again helps the Germans pull out of Greece intact and seriously hampers Soviet progress in the region.
IOTL the Partisans were pretty important to disrupting Axis defenses in Serbia after Romania switched sides and had been building up force in Serbia after breaking out of Bosnia and Montenegro, so with an uncoordinated Partisan movement under attack by the Chetniks the Germans would be free to coordinate and organize other than having to deal with Wallied air attacks (but ITTL not aided by Partisans). That means major operations like Ratweek don't really happen:

Without that operation German forces are free to withdraw by rail before the Bulgarians show up. That largely means the Belgrade offensive of OTL doesn't really happen as the Germans pull out much more quickly and intact as the Chetniks fight the Partisans and Bulgarian invasion which effectively covers their retreat into Hungary. That means more German forces are deployed to the front rather than anti-Partisan actions, which means they can hold the Soviets for a long while as Army Groups E and F then pull back and make the Danube line pretty impregnable. If that happens then Budapest isn't encircled and is not invaded, as the defensive line outside the city holds.

The big impact of that would then be that Poland isn't stripped of the vital panzer divisions that were to be the counterattack forces in case of a Soviet breakthrough, while all the planned new Hungarian divisions that were being stood up have time to actually get formed and deployed. That leaves the 3rd, 6th, and 20th panzer divisions in Poland/East Prussia, as well as the IV SS Panzer corps around Warsaw and the 1st Cavalry Corps on the Narew. Plus if the line in Hungary holds then the 6th Panzer army isn't sent to Hungary in February 1945, which means they can be a pretty major enhancement of Axis forces in the east.

Since IOTL Yalta, where the division of Europe was actually planned, didn't happen until February 1945 and by then Budapest was captured the Vistula-Oder offensive a smashing success, ITTL if the Soviets are stalled on the Danube and Budapest not taken as well as the Vistula offensive not being nearly as successful due to facing much more panzer divisions/armies than IOTL, potentially we could see the Yalta meeting not happen in February or if it does the Wallies getting an occupation zone much further east than IOTL. That is a massive change from OTL and could see Austria, Czechoslovakia, half of Hungary, part of Poland, and maybe most of Germany in the Wallied occupation zone, as the Soviets are stalled much further east in the face of larger German forces. The Cold War would be quite a bit different in that situation.
 
If the partisans fall apart (fragment into independent competing groups) in May 1944 due to losing their military command structure the knock on effects could go well beyond just the Hungarian/Balkan front going better for the Axis.

The Chetniks now would be the only other major organized group of militants in the country and given their support for the Axis and document history of fighting the Partisans with the decapitating of the Partisans and enhancement of the prestige of the Axis as a result as well as the Chetniks being disfavored at Tehran (which also meant loss of material support) plus the Wallies not invading the Balkans Mihailović would side with the Axis to fight the Partisans. This would be to establish his dominance of Yugoslav military groups and thus ensure his power within the region when Soviet forces arrive. With the Partisans cut off from the Allies missions and thus losing material and air support, as well as being fragmented due to the loss of central leadership as well as directives from the government in exile that helped unify the movement in 1944, they'd likely be nearly destroyed by the Chetniks and defections, if not people just going home due to loss of morale.

Though without a doubt he'd try to switch allegiance to the Soviets as soon as convenient as per OTL, until they show up in strength his group would likely make Yugoslavia quiet for the Axis, which likely helps the pull out of their forces in Greece and throughout the region. Given Mihailović's policy of non-confrontation with the occupiers to save civilian lives we could see substantially more German forces retreating intact out of Greece and presenting a much more formidable force in Croatia. You might potentially see him end up siding with the Axis if Soviet forces target him for being an anti-communist and collaborator with the Axis. That could well change everything to do with the war in the region.

As it was IOTL the Chetniks fought the Bulgarians, which probably would happen here too given that they were traditional enemies, which once again helps the Germans pull out of Greece intact and seriously hampers Soviet progress in the region.
IOTL the Partisans were pretty important to disrupting Axis defenses in Serbia after Romania switched sides and had been building up force in Serbia after breaking out of Bosnia and Montenegro, so with an uncoordinated Partisan movement under attack by the Chetniks the Germans would be free to coordinate and organize other than having to deal with Wallied air attacks (but ITTL not aided by Partisans). That means major operations like Ratweek don't really happen:

Without that operation German forces are free to withdraw by rail before the Bulgarians show up. That largely means the Belgrade offensive of OTL doesn't really happen as the Germans pull out much more quickly and intact as the Chetniks fight the Partisans and Bulgarian invasion which effectively covers their retreat into Hungary. That means more German forces are deployed to the front rather than anti-Partisan actions, which means they can hold the Soviets for a long while as Army Groups E and F then pull back and make the Danube line pretty impregnable. If that happens then Budapest isn't encircled and is not invaded, as the defensive line outside the city holds.

The big impact of that would then be that Poland isn't stripped of the vital panzer divisions that were to be the counterattack forces in case of a Soviet breakthrough, while all the planned new Hungarian divisions that were being stood up have time to actually get formed and deployed. That leaves the 3rd, 6th, and 20th panzer divisions in Poland/East Prussia, as well as the IV SS Panzer corps around Warsaw and the 1st Cavalry Corps on the Narew. Plus if the line in Hungary holds then the 6th Panzer army isn't sent to Hungary in February 1945, which means they can be a pretty major enhancement of Axis forces in the east.

Since IOTL Yalta, where the division of Europe was actually planned, didn't happen until February 1945 and by then Budapest was captured the Vistula-Oder offensive a smashing success, ITTL if the Soviets are stalled on the Danube and Budapest not taken as well as the Vistula offensive not being nearly as successful due to facing much more panzer divisions/armies than IOTL, potentially we could see the Yalta meeting not happen in February or if it does the Wallies getting an occupation zone much further east than IOTL. That is a massive change from OTL and could see Austria, Czechoslovakia, half of Hungary, part of Poland, and maybe most of Germany in the Wallied occupation zone, as the Soviets are stalled much further east in the face of larger German forces. The Cold War would be quite a bit different in that situation.

It could happened.And Warsaw could be intact,becouse uprising was ordered by local commander only becouse he belived that soviets are coming.No nearby soviets,no uprising.

About Hungarian units - in OTL only 2 armored and 1 calvary divisions was still fighting for real,but here it would change.
Considering that they would hold river against enemy who was unable to destroy their air forces with 8:1 advantage in air/hungarian air forces was destroyed by USAAF/ they could hold it.
And they would get new medium tanks Turan 3,romanian - new tank destroyers/Marasel,i think/

Germany probably lost to soviets only East Prussia.

But,if war last longer,it would be ended with A bombs on Berlin.Considering that Japan wanted capitulate and their only condition was keeping Emperor,bomb on Berlin would be enough.

Interesting thing - soviets could start WW3 in this scenario,becouse they would feel cheated.After getting their own A bomb,of course.
 
It could happened.And Warsaw could be intact,becouse uprising was ordered by local commander only becouse he belived that soviets are coming.No nearby soviets,no uprising.
Unfortunately this POD won't impact the Warsaw Uprising. That is too related to Bagration to change. This POD would only change the situation around Poland in the December 1944-February 1945 period; by December the third Battle of Warsaw was already over and the city depopulated.

About Hungarian units - in OTL only 2 armored and 1 calvary divisions was still fighting for real,but here it would change.
I have to strongly disagree with that; there were a number of infantry divisions still fighting and fighting relatively well given the disadvantages they had. The Waffen-SS Hungarian divisions though could be stood up here and trained in Hungary rather than Poland with all the problems that ensued from that. They'd have been regular sized (9 battalions rather than the 6 of the 1944-45 period). In fact the Vlassov division would even have a chance to get into real combat rather than the demonstration they made before trying to surrender to American forces (and failing). Given that they were actually pretty well equipped, experienced, and well led not to mention quite large (18,000 men) if they had motivation to fight in February they could actually do pretty well for themselves.

Considering that they would hold river against enemy who was unable to destroy their air forces with 8:1 advantage in air/hungarian air forces was destroyed by USAAF/ they could hold it.
And they would get new medium tanks Turan 3,romanian - new tank destroyers/Marasel,i think/
I'm not sure how the Hungarians would get Romanian tanks.

Germany probably lost to soviets only East Prussia.
Maybe not. IOTL units were transferred from East Prussia to Poland to help once the Soviets broke through, but ITTL with 5 extra panzer divisions plus two extra cavalry (of those 1 panzer and the 2 cavalry) would be in East Prussia along with the divisions not transferred (1 elite panzer division and 1 elite panzergrenadier division) it might actually be possible for East Prussia to hold. They'd lose territory of course, but so long as Rokossovsky's front could be checked then per OTL those holding east of Koenigsberg actually could continue maintaining their positions.

But,if war last longer,it would be ended with A bombs on Berlin.Considering that Japan wanted capitulate and their only condition was keeping Emperor,bomb on Berlin would be enough.

Interesting thing - soviets could start WW3 in this scenario,becouse they would feel cheated.After getting their own A bomb,of course.
It would have to last into at least August for the A-bomb to potentially come into play (IOTL it was strongly discouraged to be used in Europe given that there weren't suitable undamaged targets to try it against and Truman wouldn't be as inclined to use it on Germany anyway). I doubt it would given that the failure in the west of the Ardennes offensive would mean the western front falls apart per OTL, so by April US and British forces would be able to threaten Berlin. It would just mean the Soviets are well short of the city by that point and potentially checked on the Warthe river.

I'm not so sure Stalin would be eager for WW3 given how badly the USSR was crippled by WW2. A lot of private comments he made indicated he wanted to rebuild for 20 years before starting trouble and was more interested in the US being tied down in Asia rather than focused on Europe since that could undermine the USSR's position. Given that he refused to allow a census to be held until the mid-1950s Stalin was very eager to cover up how bad WW2 losses were.

Actually with the Soviets checked so far east they might not agree to attack Japan ITTL which opens up a massive can of worms and would suck the US into mainland Asia with all sorts of nasty consequences politically for Truman especially if Stalin cuts a deal with Japan while supplying Mao's guerrillas.
 
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I honestly think this discussion is significantly over-rating the speed-bumps imposed on the Soviet steamroller in the absence of a functioning Yugoslav Partisan force.
 
I honestly think this discussion is significantly over-rating the speed-bumps imposed on the Soviet steamroller in the absence of a functioning Yugoslav Partisan force.
How so? Given the logistical issues the Soviets had in the Balkans and the necessity of utilizing both the Bulgarians and Partisan forces, without the Partisans and Tito around to work out the alliance with the Bulgarians to end fighting already happening between the Bulgarian and Serb forces (traditional hostility going back to the Balkan Wars and WW1) the Soviets won't really have enough ability to advance quickly enough to tear apart Axis forces on the retreat. The Chetniks fighting with the Germans against any Partisan forces that remain as well as the Bulgarians (which happened IOTL) and potentially Soviet forces if the Soviets try to disarm them as they did IOTL (they didn't resist for a variety of reasons including fear of not complying would mean being turned over to the Partisans to be dealt with) and impose a communist regime or just simply work with communist Partisans, would be a massive problem for the Soviets.

It can't be overstated just how much the Partisans messed up the Axis retreat which heavily facilitated the Soviet advance:

Invert that so the Chetniks have the upper hand in Yugoslavia and fight for the Germans as they already were and instead impede the Soviet and/or the Bulgarian forces while not allowing the SOE/OSS to operate against the Germans and direct air strikes in conjunction with Partisan ground attacks and so too does the pace and cost of advance invert. Plus it saves the Axis forces quite a few casualties from May 1944 on as well as allows their rear areas to be covered as they fought the Soviets as they advanced on Belgrade via Hungary.

Remember too that Army Group E had 300,000 men in Greece and a large number were unable to pull out in time and those that did mostly lost their heavy equipment as the Partisan attacks coupled with directed Wallied air strikes shut down the rail lines and forced them to use easily ambushed side roads. The loss of equipment effectively rendered the divisions fit only for anti-Partisan fighting and they were able to check them once the Soviets moved into Hungary and over the Danube; had they had their heavy equipment and supplies due to being able to retreat in good order they'd have freed up AG-F and 2nd panzer to focus on the Soviets exclusively with all their strength while potentially being able to help out; if the Chetniks remain on the German side then that represents a pretty massive strength increase when coupled with the Croats since the Soviets will instead be distracted dealing with them or at least leaving the Bulgarians to do so. Losing the 130,000 man 1st Bulgarian army in Hungary would be a huge problem since they held the Drava river line with the Yugoslav army IOTL starting in November, which freed up the 57th army to advance south of Lake Balaton.

Some numbers:
Then, the last major German attempt to crush the Partisans occurred on 25-27 May 1944 when a combined airborne and armored assault, code-named Fall Rösselsprung (Operation Knight’s Move) was directed on the village of Drvar. The Germans were attempting to decapitate the Partisan command by capturing or killing Tito (Josip Broz) the commander of the General Staff of the National Liberation Partisan Detachments of Yugoslavia. The total of the Second Panzer Army losses in the operation, its preliminaries and aftermath (the period from 21 May to 10 June) were 620 KIA, 1,869 WIA, and 285 MIA. Partisan casualties are unknown, but were severe as well. However, Tito made good his escape and established a new headquarters on the island of Vis in the Adriatic Sea. Losses in AG F units were 30 KIA, 74 WIA, and 6 MIA.

From 11 June to 30 November 1944, when the German Second Panzer Army was transferred from the command of OB Southeast and AG F to OKH and AG XXXX, it lost an additional 2,384 KIA, 8,181 WIA, and 3,110 MIA in battles with the Partisans. AG F losses from 11 June to the end of 1944 were 377 KIA, 1,193 WIA, and 554 MIA. Losses suffered by AG E in the withdrawal from Greece, 1 October to 31 December 1944 were 2,876 KIA, 9,637 WIA, and 3,823 MIA. Overall, it appears that the German losses in the anti-Partisan War in the Balkans in 1944 were 8,331 KIA, 26,448 WIA, and 11,806 MIA. Partisan losses for the year were 80,650 KIA, 147,650 WIA (including 8,066 DOW), and 5,600 MIA.

German losses in OB Southeast from 1 January to 20 April 1945 were 5,678 KIA, 20,110 WIA, and 8,638 MIA. Partisan losses in 1945 were 72,925 KIA, 130,000 WIA (including 7,800 DOW), and 7,800 MIA. However, it may be correct to say that the Partisan War in the Balkans ceased to be an insurgency sometime in September and October of 1944. From that time it assumed more and more of the attributes of a conventional conflict – indeed, in November 1944 the Partisans fielded the first of two armored brigades against the Germans.
 
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If soviet was smart and forget about conqering Hungary,then they could push with all they have to Oder line.But that would be all.
 
If soviet was smart and forget about conqering Hungary,then they could push with all they have to Oder line.But that would be all.
Assuming the scenario I laid out is what happens the Soviets still are stuck with the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Ukrainian Fronts in Hungary; they could transfer out some rifle corps and their tank corps, but that's about all they could maybe commit to Poland; even then employing them would be virtually impossible except after the exploitation phase or by relieving a worn out existing tanks army since the front was so constricted in January and logistics were so constrained as result until the Oder was reached. However if due to German reserves they are stopped at the Warthe and Soviet forces haven't overrun and wiped out German forces like they did IOTL it would be somewhat difficult to gain and advantage by employing Soviet forces in Hungary to Poland instead.
 

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