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What If? These States get ISOTED back to the year 1500AD

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
In this scenario the ROB decides to take 5 US States, 2 Canadian Provinces and 2 Mexican State and transport it back to the year 1500. These are the ones being sent.
US States: Hawaii, South Carolina, Wisconsin, Virginia, Texas
Canada: Ontario, British Columbia
Mexico: Chihuahua, Tamaulipas

All of these time displaced territories have 100 years worth of food in stores, 100 years worth of fuel, 100 years work of electrical power and 100 year worth of items in stores/ warehouses. They also have all the raw materials for manufacturing things for 200 years. They have Satellites in orbit to provide communication, weather monitoring, And other tasks. After the elapsed time they must have made the preparations to be self sufficient. All of these territories know about each other and are working together. How does this change affect the Native populations in North America? How will the European Powers react to the news of way more powerful civilization in the New World?

Edit: These these places are from the years 1990.
 

Buba

A total creep
All of these time displaced territories have 100 years worth of [...]
Eww - no fun :(

BTW - in spite of being gifted manufacturing components/resources, so many items are made outside those territories that there will be technical regression/stagnation lasting a few decades. Setting up new industries will require making machines to make machines, training up people and creating institutional knowledge etc.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
Well, 1990 Virginia and S. Carolina were pre-tech boom, though Virginia still has a lot of know-how for satellite communication, having a bunch of assets of the Contel corporation, and Virginia was their HQ for satellite telecom IIRC*. And while the Federal Halo is smaller in Virginia in 1990 than it is now, a lot of the premier telecom and military corporations were set up in Virginia at the time, plus Virginia has all the infrastructure for running the US Military (Pentagon) and CIA (Langley), as well as the largest shipyards in the world (Newport News) which is capable of building both nuclear aircraft carriers and submarines. This means that from a technical side, Virginia actually has a LOT of basic know-how for modern technology, and bear in mind that while Silicon Valley gets a lot of the credit for the ideas of the tech boom, the early internet's core infrastructure was mainly built in Virginia built out from computer networks for the Federal government that get ISOT with them, so while there will be delays, some sort of Internet will still be developed.

Virginia also has natural uranium reserves and massive coal reserves, so it should be good for electrical power for the foreseeable future even without the infusion of the ISOT extra resources.

The geographic proximity of Virginia and S. Carolina mean they likely will work together. Virginia's governor at the time is Douglas Wilder**, a moderate Democrat, while S. Carolina's is Carroll Campbell, a moderate Republican. There's an easy sea route between the two states as well as the Intracoastal Waterway.

The big issue for both States is going to be Oil. This is obviously where Texas comes in, and sea trade will be the primary means for both to get oil. Texas also has considerable technical know-how, being the home for the Texas Instruments, which manufacture semiconductors and other computer hardware.

Frankly, the odd one out here is Wisconsin. The other US states can all trade and support each other via sea, all have well developed seaports for it, and thus while Texas probably goes its own way as an independent nation, Virginia and S.Carolina probably look at some form of unified government after a time. Wisconsin, on the other hand, has no easy trade routes with anyone. They have some degree of natural wealth, but lack a lot of the institutional knowledge that other states have. Politically they're also the odd duck out, with 1990s Virginia, S.Carolina, and Texas all being very Conservative states. I suspect this means they'll take a different track compared to the coastal states, likely one that is built on uplifting Native American tribes and downteching to some sustainable level, as building up the infrastructure necessary to reconnect to the other states is a massive long term project that might even take longer than their spare resources give them.

Meanwhile the Coastal states will seek to maintain their technological level as much as possible, with long term plans to ensure their ability to secure the resources needed. Virginia is the undisputed master of the oceans in this scenario, given it's ability to build modern warships and holding of the largest military shipyards in the world (no, not just in the ISOT, I mean modern world... Newport News is BIG). There will likely build overland routes between Virginia and S.Carolina over time too, with the region that was N.Carolina likely resettled over time by people moving south from Virginia and North from S.Carolina. I can also see them expanding in the regions of Maryland, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. Pennsylvania especially so that the Virginia/Carolina Collective can gain their own domestic oil production. Likewise you'd like see them expand some south into what was Georgia. Expanding west across the Appalachians will take longer, as building the necessary passes for modern transit will take a long time and there's little demand for it initially.

You likely will see a more moderate approach to dealing with the Native Americans from these states too, likely trying to work with them as much as possible. We really don't have a good idea what 1500s N.America looked like from the Native Perspective, as this was before the massive smallpox epidemic really hit them IIRC. In fact, one of the major efforts that would be undertaken by those states would be smallpox vaccines for EVERYONE ASAP, starting with their own citizens and then spreading out to whatever local tribes they have managed to befriend.

-----------------------
* How does one even know this? My father worked for Contel, in their satellite and government contracting division, in Virginia, in the late 1980s... which does mean that this one has been ISOT per OP...

** I know this sounds bizarre, but he really is. Wilder is still alive and has been very critical of the Democrat Party of Virginia to the point where he's flirted with endorsing Republicans and even was a part of the present Republican Governor's transition team.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
The added benefit of both Virginia and SC is both states can train up recruits for the Military. SC has Fort Jackson and Paris Island. And a new RTC for the Navy can be made in either state. As for Spanish Conquest of Southern North America. It is a hard no. The US Navy and for that matter what makes up the Mexican Military will send the Cortez and company running back to Spain screaming for their Mamas. Their is a new Hegemon on the planet and it ain't Spain, France, Portugal or England.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
The added benefit of both Virginia and SC is both states can train up recruits for the Military. SC has Fort Jackson and Paris Island. And a new RTC for the Navy can be made in either state. As for Spanish Conquest of Southern North America. It is a hard no. The US Navy and for that matter what makes up the Mexican Military will send the Cortez and company running back to Spain screaming for their Mamas. Their is a new Hegemon on the planet and it ain't Spain, France, Portugal or England.
Cortez is demonized in modern history and the Aztecs fetishized by modern Mexico, but actual first hand encounters with the Aztecs will likely quickly change the perspective of most Mexicans. The Aztec Empire was an Evil Empire on par with Nazi Germany, the only reason we don't hear about their atrocities as much is due to historical distance and the concerted effort to demonize European colonialism of the Americas. However, there's a reason all the OTHER native Mexican peoples sided with Cortez over the Aztecs.

Likely the Mexican states and Texas will have to conquer and put down the rabid dog that is the Aztec Empire, otherwise the Aztecs WILL be constantly raiding and kidnapping their citizens for human sacrifice.

There were definitely crimes committed against the native populations by both the Spanish and English colonizers; however, the destruction of the Aztec Empire was not one of them. There was clearly a good guy side in that conflict, and it wasn't the Aztecs.

---------------------

Also, having consulted a map to look up the Mexican states that have been ISOT, both are so proximate to Texas that they likely will just integrate into it politically. They have much more in common with Texas, and trying to go it alone is going to make maintaining their infrastructure that much harder.

Ontario and Wisconsin will also likely unify, but have that major problem of access to international waters and lacking as much industry as Texico and the CAVA combos have. That said, Wisconsin does have access to the Mississippi River, which if I'm reading up on it correctly is navigable from Wisconsin to the Gulf, which does give them a solid trade route and connection to the Intercoastal waterway I mentioned that connects CAVA to Texico. This does mean they'll have the ability to trade and engage with the other ISOT states.

British Columbia and Hawaii on the other hand are basically screwed. Hawaii already has to import most of its energy resources and a lot of food, and even with the century stockpile, that's not going to change quickly or easily. BC and them will be dealing with each other out of necessity, and while Hawaii might be the HQ for the Pacific fleet, it's not where the fleet is built, so unlike CAVA it's not going to be able to build new ships better suited to the situation they find themselves in. BC has no good routes to Ontario and the sea route between it and the other ISOT lands involves rounding Cape Horn... it's a long trip even with modern ships and is generally avoided when possible. The Rocky Mountains basically ensure that a trans-continental connection between Ontario and BC will take a long time to build out, but I suspect they will build it, as it will be the only way to ensure a connection to the rest of the ISOT world.

BC and Hawaii won't form a union like I think you'd see in the Southwest or East Coast. There's also going to be some serious political tension over control over the mouth of the Mississippi. The Superior Union (of Wisconsin and Ontario) will demand free access to it, but it falls naturally under Texico, who will definitely expand east to grab it up. Politically the Superior Union is going to be much more... Leftist than either Texico or CAVA will be, and will likely take a very different political track to dealing with the native tribes around them as well as how they should engage with the wider world. I actually think the TSU will be more about uplifting and empowering native tribes seeing themselves as having a duty to uplift them to empower them to resist the Evil White Man (that narrative was already deep in the left in the 1990s), whereas CAVA and Texico will deal with them fairly, but will likely try and either integrate or buy up land from them in the regions they need (IE CAVA will definitely end up settling the region that was N.Carolina, as they'll want that land for agriculture and to connect the two states).

The TSU's actions will lead to massive destabilization within the native tribes, much as contact with Europeans did OTL. Those they decide to "uplift" (provide more modern technology to) will rapidly seek to conquer and displace other native tribes (just as those tribes who got hold of European firearms in the OTL did). Whether this ends up triggering the various migrations that the Beaver Wars did in the OTL is unlikely, but what will end up happening is the native tribes driven out by the Uplifted tribes will be forced away from the TSU. At some point these tribes will come into contact and conflict with the tribes around CAVA. I expect CAVA to have taken what amounts to an almost Prime Directive approach to the native tribes around them with the possible exception of vaccine efforts, only trade and relocating natives as absolutely needed to create the contiguous CAVA region. This means that eventually the TSU backed tribes are going to come into conflict with the CAVA itself, likely taking the form of raids on outer circle settlements in what would be Pennsylvania and West Virginia. This then would lead to increasing tensions between CAVA and TSU, and likely a series of Indians Wars in Pennsylvania and along the northern Appalachians.

Texico likely would be in a bind here, as they likely import a lot of food from TSU, while CAVA is likely a trader in higher tech goods and services. They'd probably WANT to side with CAVA, but depending on how food dependent they are on the TSU they might well be forced into neutrality. Meanwhile to the TSU they would likely see the entire conflict as CAVA having taken native lands and thus deserving of the attacks by the Uplifted Tribes.

That said, the Uplifted Tribes are basically dependent on the TSU for their logistics and supply, whereas CAVA likely produces much of their own, as such the conflict would favor the CAVA with the Uplifted Tribes forced into some sort of treaty that pushes them back some distance from CAVA territory and creates a neutral zone between the Uplifted Tribes and CAVA the non-Uplifted tribes begin to flee to as the Uplifted turn their attention back to the other tribes.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
Cortez is demonized in modern history and the Aztecs fetishized by modern Mexico, but actual first hand encounters with the Aztecs will likely quickly change the perspective of most Mexicans. The Aztec Empire was an Evil Empire on par with Nazi Germany, the only reason we don't hear about their atrocities as much is due to historical distance and the concerted effort to demonize European colonialism of the Americas. However, there's a reason all the OTHER native Mexican peoples sided with Cortez over the Aztecs.

Likely the Mexican states and Texas will have to conquer and put down the rabid dog that is the Aztec Empire, otherwise the Aztecs WILL be constantly raiding and kidnapping their citizens for human sacrifice.

There were definitely crimes committed against the native populations by both the Spanish and English colonizers; however, the destruction of the Aztec Empire was not one of them. There was clearly a good guy side in that conflict, and it wasn't the Aztecs.

---------------------

Also, having consulted a map to look up the Mexican states that have been ISOT, both are so proximate to Texas that they likely will just integrate into it politically. They have much more in common with Texas, and trying to go it alone is going to make maintaining their infrastructure that much harder.

Ontario and Wisconsin will also likely unify, but have that major problem of access to international waters and lacking as much industry as Texico and the CAVA combos have. That said, Wisconsin does have access to the Mississippi River, which if I'm reading up on it correctly is navigable from Wisconsin to the Gulf, which does give them a solid trade route and connection to the Intercoastal waterway I mentioned that connects CAVA to Texico. This does mean they'll have the ability to trade and engage with the other ISOT states.

British Columbia and Hawaii on the other hand are basically screwed. Hawaii already has to import most of its energy resources and a lot of food, and even with the century stockpile, that's not going to change quickly or easily. BC and them will be dealing with each other out of necessity, and while Hawaii might be the HQ for the Pacific fleet, it's not where the fleet is built, so unlike CAVA it's not going to be able to build new ships better suited to the situation they find themselves in. BC has no good routes to Ontario and the sea route between it and the other ISOT lands involves rounding Cape Horn... it's a long trip even with modern ships and is generally avoided when possible. The Rocky Mountains basically ensure that a trans-continental connection between Ontario and BC will take a long time to build out, but I suspect they will build it, as it will be the only way to ensure a connection to the rest of the ISOT world.

BC and Hawaii won't form a union like I think you'd see in the Southwest or East Coast. There's also going to be some serious political tension over control over the mouth of the Mississippi. The Superior Union (of Wisconsin and Ontario) will demand free access to it, but it falls naturally under Texico, who will definitely expand east to grab it up. Politically the Superior Union is going to be much more... Leftist than either Texico or CAVA will be, and will likely take a very different political track to dealing with the native tribes around them as well as how they should engage with the wider world. I actually think the TSU will be more about uplifting and empowering native tribes seeing themselves as having a duty to uplift them to empower them to resist the Evil White Man (that narrative was already deep in the left in the 1990s), whereas CAVA and Texico will deal with them fairly, but will likely try and either integrate or buy up land from them in the regions they need (IE CAVA will definitely end up settling the region that was N.Carolina, as they'll want that land for agriculture and to connect the two states).

The TSU's actions will lead to massive destabilization within the native tribes, much as contact with Europeans did OTL. Those they decide to "uplift" (provide more modern technology to) will rapidly seek to conquer and displace other native tribes (just as those tribes who got hold of European firearms in the OTL did). Whether this ends up triggering the various migrations that the Beaver Wars did in the OTL is unlikely, but what will end up happening is the native tribes driven out by the Uplifted tribes will be forced away from the TSU. At some point these tribes will come into contact and conflict with the tribes around CAVA. I expect CAVA to have taken what amounts to an almost Prime Directive approach to the native tribes around them with the possible exception of vaccine efforts, only trade and relocating natives as absolutely needed to create the contiguous CAVA region. This means that eventually the TSU backed tribes are going to come into conflict with the CAVA itself, likely taking the form of raids on outer circle settlements in what would be Pennsylvania and West Virginia. This then would lead to increasing tensions between CAVA and TSU, and likely a series of Indians Wars in Pennsylvania and along the northern Appalachians.

Texico likely would be in a bind here, as they likely import a lot of food from TSU, while CAVA is likely a trader in higher tech goods and services. They'd probably WANT to side with CAVA, but depending on how food dependent they are on the TSU they might well be forced into neutrality. Meanwhile to the TSU they would likely see the entire conflict as CAVA having taken native lands and thus deserving of the attacks by the Uplifted Tribes.

That said, the Uplifted Tribes are basically dependent on the TSU for their logistics and supply, whereas CAVA likely produces much of their own, as such the conflict would favor the CAVA with the Uplifted Tribes forced into some sort of treaty that pushes them back some distance from CAVA territory and creates a neutral zone between the Uplifted Tribes and CAVA the non-Uplifted tribes begin to flee to as the Uplifted turn their attention back to the other tribes.
Good assessment. The existence of these 4 powers will also have a more global effect. The presence of very advanced nation states in the New World will both scare and peak the interest of the peoples of the Old World. Some powers might just write North America off altogether and try to colonize South America instead. Some might try to some how get their hands on Advanced Weapons from the New World. Even goes as far as to kidnap some random civilians. Depending on what happens might see small brush wars to keep certain actors out of CAVA and TSU Territory. Don't know how CAVA will deal with the Slave Trade that is going on. Will they do strikes on Settlements in West Africa to obliterate the Slavers. Will they sink all sailing ships heading to West Africa. One Carrier and 2 Nuke Cruisers could literally do the job.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
Good assessment. The existence of these 4 powers will also have a more global effect. The presence of very advanced nation states in the New World will both scare and peak the interest of the peoples of the Old World. Some powers might just write North America off altogether and try to colonize South America instead. Some might try to some how get their hands on Advanced Weapons from the New World. Even goes as far as to kidnap some random civilians. Depending on what happens might see small brush wars to keep certain actors out of CAVA and TSU Territory. Don't know how CAVA will deal with the Slave Trade that is going on. Will they do strikes on Settlements in West Africa to obliterate the Slavers. Will they sink all sailing ships heading to West Africa. One Carrier and 2 Nuke Cruisers could literally do the job.
This is before the Triangle Trade really got started and spun up, so rather than having to do anything that drastic they will just have to make a declaration that slavery will not be tolerated in the Americas. Otherwise I think they'll generally try and stay out of the world stage to much. The future knowledge they have is just to disrupting to everything and the rest of the world doesn't have much to offer them.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
This is before the Triangle Trade really got started and spun up, so rather than having to do anything that drastic they will just have to make a declaration that slavery will not be tolerated in the Americas. Otherwise I think they'll generally try and stay out of the world stage to much. The future knowledge they have is just to disrupting to everything and the rest of the world doesn't have much to offer them.
Just a question. Do you think Hawaii will try and Colonize Australia so that they can grow more food crops. Or New Zealand for that matter?
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
Just a question. Do you think Hawaii will try and Colonize Australia so that they can grow more food crops. Or New Zealand for that matter?
No. Mainly since there's closer and better option: California.

Distance from Hawaii to New Zealand is 4606 miles.
From Hawaii to Australia is similar.
From Hawaii to California is 2467.

Thus they're more likely to head to California and develop farming in the very lush Central Valley with a port around where San Francisco is for export, likely connecting into a trade with BC.

The issue of course will be how Hawaii and BC deal with natives tribes. BC has some leeway as it doesn't have as much need to displace tribes for essential materials. Hawaii, on the other hand, really will need to work for food independence as well as fuel. Colonizing California solves many of those issues, with California having oil and good growing land. The rough part for Hawaii is they have the lowest population to work with of the ISOT lands, so they might have to get creative, perhaps somehow working to actively integrate and uplift natives into their polity (as opposed to TSU who just uplifts and let's loose) to increase their labor pool.

What I can see Hawaii doing is working to forge a trans-Pacific trade route with China, Japan, and India for luxury goods that can't be produced by any of the N.American ISOT powers (IE China, Silk, spices, etc.) and then leveraging those luxury goods to trade for things from the ISOT nations. CAVA might not be overly interested, as they can easily manage to make their own trade route to those regions via the Cape of Good Hope, but for the TSU and Texico they might have easier times getting it from Hawaii... not sure though it would depend on how the overland routes are opened between BC and the TSU and if Hawaii's California colony develops an overland route to Texico.
 

Buba

A total creep
Which, if any, of the ISOTed areas have above replacement birthrates?

Can't Hawaii team up with BC? And/or Little Yippy Dog?
I'd suggest expansion - together with BC - into Washington and Oregon. There is excellent farmland there. California has something in the water that makes it a breeding ground for leftard morons and thus should be given a broad berth ...
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
No. Mainly since there's closer and better option: California.

Distance from Hawaii to New Zealand is 4606 miles.
From Hawaii to Australia is similar.
From Hawaii to California is 2467.

Thus they're more likely to head to California and develop farming in the very lush Central Valley with a port around where San Francisco is for export, likely connecting into a trade with BC.

The issue of course will be how Hawaii and BC deal with natives tribes. BC has some leeway as it doesn't have as much need to displace tribes for essential materials. Hawaii, on the other hand, really will need to work for food independence as well as fuel. Colonizing California solves many of those issues, with California having oil and good growing land. The rough part for Hawaii is they have the lowest population to work with of the ISOT lands, so they might have to get creative, perhaps somehow working to actively integrate and uplift natives into their polity (as opposed to TSU who just uplifts and let's loose) to increase their labor pool.

What I can see Hawaii doing is working to forge a trans-Pacific trade route with China, Japan, and India for luxury goods that can't be produced by any of the N.American ISOT powers (IE China, Silk, spices, etc.) and then leveraging those luxury goods to trade for things from the ISOT nations. CAVA might not be overly interested, as they can easily manage to make their own trade route to those regions via the Cape of Good Hope, but for the TSU and Texico they might have easier times getting it from Hawaii... not sure though it would depend on how the overland routes are opened between BC and the TSU and if Hawaii's California colony develops an overland route to Texico.
It would also be a good Idea to make some refueling depots on Wake Island, Midway and Guam. That way they can have ways to refuel their ships between Asia and North America.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
Which, if any, of the ISOTed areas have above replacement birthrates?

Can't Hawaii team up with BC? And/or Little Yippy Dog?
I'd suggest expansion - together with BC - into Washington and Oregon. There is excellent farmland there. California has something in the water that makes it a breeding ground for leftard morons and thus should be given a broad berth ...
In 1990 the entire US had above replacement birthrates, of the states in question Texas has the highest, but all of them are fairly safe. Plus given the situation I suspect you'll see an increase in birthrates over time, not to level similar to the rest of the world, but rather than see a drop off from 1990 to 2000 in birthrates as we actually did, I suspect the situation will lead to increased birthrates or at least stabilization of them over that period.

As to why I don't see Hawaii teaming up with BC or Chihuahua all goes down to distance. Unlike Virginia and S. Carolina which are highly proximate; or Texas, Chihuahua, and Tamaulipas / Wisconsin and Ontario, which are geographically contiguous, Hawaii isn't close enough to BC gain any benefit of governmental merging nor do they gain a lot by merging with BC. Chihauhau also doesn't have any easy access to the Pacific Ocean, all its major rivers are tributaries to the Rio Grande and thus connect it to the Gulf of Mexico. They'd have to expand west (which is over mountains) to get to the Pacific, something I don't see being in Texico's immediate interest, though perhaps in the long term once the Aztecs are pacified and regular trade has been established with CAVA and TSU.

As to why California over Washington and/or Oregon, the main reason is the simple fact for as good as the farmland is in those states, it pales in comparison to that of the Central Valley of California. Control of the Central Valley would turn Hawaii from being a net food dependent into a food superpower once agriculture there was up in running. Seriously, go look at the ridiculously sheer amount of agriculture done in the Central Valley of California, that location alone grows large percentages of numerous crops on a worldwide scale now. It alone would be sufficient to secure Hawaii while ALSO providing them agricultural trade goods for deal with the other Displaced and the rest of the world. Plus it puts them closer to the California oil reserves, and Hawaii will desperately be seeing to secure it's energy supply.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Good for 1500 world.At least for North and Central America.But - they probably still fall to 1950-1960 technological level,at least for few generations.
Do not matter,when they would fight Aztecs and MAYBE spaniards.

Maybe they manage to prevent future revolutions in Europe? if people knew,that it always lead to massgraves and new worst elites,they could not try it.
Or not.

But,they certainly coud save Hungary from Ottomans.That alone would be good change.
And,if they showed PLC their future,we could have smarter and still strong Poland.
Good for Europe,again.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
There's a big side benefit in this change. Many Animals went extinct in recent History. From the Stellar Sea Cow to the Dodo Bird. Animals that are still alive in this timeline. I can see civilian organizations perhaps with some military escort going around the world to get small groups of animals we know are gonna go extinct and bring them to preserves in North America. It would be a great thing for preventing true Nature tragedies.
 

ATP

Well-known member
There's a big side benefit in this change. Many Animals went extinct in recent History. From the Stellar Sea Cow to the Dodo Bird. Animals that are still alive in this timeline. I can see civilian organizations perhaps with some military escort going around the world to get small groups of animals we know are gonna go extinct and bring them to preserves in North America. It would be a great thing for preventing true Nature tragedies.

There should stil be Moa on New Zeeland,and that giant birds on Madagascar.Sadly,big lemurs probably arleady all gone.
And...last auorch died in Poland in 1627 !
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
There should stil be Moa on New Zeeland,and that giant birds on Madagascar.Sadly,big lemurs probably arleady all gone.
And...last auorch died in Poland in 1627 !
The various states have the manpower and the muscle to save all these animals. Any opposition to their efforts would be swept aside like a Borg Cube showing up in the Expanse. And these species can be preserved on various places in the states.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
The various states have the manpower and the muscle to save all these animals. Any opposition to their efforts would be swept aside like a Borg Cube showing up in the Expanse. And these species can be preserved on various places in the states.

Those in Australia,too! althought,you could wait there.Aborigens would not hunt them,when Moa,Madagascar bird and auroch was on road to extinction.
 

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