ISOT The Westerlands Are ISOT’ed to the(Literal)Stone Age

[CarlManvers2019]

Hear Me Roar: House Lannister and the Westerlands in the War of the Ring - Chapter 1 - Willywalkerstrikesagain - Multifandom [Archive of Our Own]

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Inspired by this fic, except the entirety of the Westerlands(plus its overseas traders, warriors/soldiers, people and deceased and their possessions)find their entire land transferred to some part of Europe during the Stone Age

They don’t die or get affected by disease or infection from the Stone Age and vice-versa

What happens when they find themselves to essentially be the most advanced civilization around(eventually)and all the nearby human tribes have yet to even discover bronze tools?

What happens with the de-facto royal family(Lannisters)without six more kingdoms to fight for?

 

[Deleted member 88]

I hope this isn't necroing, but if it is I apologize not sure what the rules are here on that.

The first question is when in the stone age? The Neolithic? Paleolithic? 10,000 BC, 20,000 BC? 8,000 BC?

That question could mean the difference between the westermen simply colonizing the world vs. actually interacting with local populations to any appreciable extent.

For the sake of the response, I'll assume late stone age-say 9,000 BC.

At this time in Europe-it was still mostly hunter gatherer bands but Gobekli Tepe is around and the beginnings of agriculture are occurring in the near east.

In this context-the Lannisters and Westermen arrival have dramatically increased the world population on their own and will swamp any of their immediate neighbors.

With the lack of anyone to trade with, not even Egypt or Mesopotamia, the westerlands likely remain self sufficient with some adventurers and lords heading outwards, likely seeking land to claim. But given certain crops haven't been domesticated yet-they'd have to do that work themselves.

Once the general situation becomes clear(and given the technology and population level-this will take quite a long time), the Lannisters will come to the conclusion they were transported to a world in its equivalent dawn age of sorts. They'd probably take this as a sign from the gods that their destiny is to rule it. But even so, expansion will be slow and colonization outward will take time.

In a few hundred to a thousand years-the golden lion will likely be seen from the Urals to Spain.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

In a few hundred to a thousand years-the golden lion will likely be seen from the Urals to Spain.

How long till its people become “decadent” in the Robert E Howard sense, guy applies “decadent” even to mere iron age civilizations

 

[Deleted member 88]

How long till its people become “decadent” in the Robert E Howard sense, guy applies “decadent” even to mere iron age civilizations

I mean, they pretty much already are in comparison to everyone around them. The average westermen peasant is fantastically better off than the early Neolithic hunter gatherers he might come across.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

I mean, they pretty much already are in comparison to everyone around them. The average westermen peasant is fantastically better off than the early Neolithic hunter gatherers he might come across.

And thus more “lazy” and “fat”

I was also sorta referring to how REH’s idea of barbarism has said “barbarian” characters being far nore honest about their assholeness and actually loyal unless betrayed

Queen of the Black Coast - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Conan gets in trouble for his sense of honor that’s rather incompatible with civilizationnat the start, because he won’t rat out a friend in trouble

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Probably just REH’s romanticised take on barbarism

 

[CarlManvers2019]

I mean, they pretty much already are in comparison to everyone around them. The average westermen peasant is fantastically better off than the early Neolithic hunter gatherers he might come across.

What about in the sense of Rome growing decadent and falling even though it had problems like poverty still existing and enemies or possible future enemies around?

 

[Deleted member 88]

The westermen won’t have enemies.

Eventually I could see Lannister vassals carving out their own domains and striking out on their own and challenging Lannister power in the further future.

But there are no states or advanced societies strong enough to challenge the Westerlands.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The westermen won’t have enemies.

Eventually I could see Lannister vassals carving out their own domains and striking out on their own and challenging Lannister power in the further future.

But there are no states or advanced societies strong enough to challenge the Westerlands.

It will get even harder to keep united with distance

And like the Ayleids/Wild Elves/Heartland High Elves of Cyrodill, they may just pay lip service to the Kings of the Summerset Isles

How would they handle conquering other peoples? I don’t think modern Westeros is so used to tribals

 

[Deleted member 88]

I imagine in the early years Tywin will keep tight control over colonization efforts.

Lords will take lands and their peasants will start to cultivate them, and thus the Westerlands territory will expand gradually.

Problem might be second sons and spares-with no prospects in the west(or fewer) that's a recipe for unrest.

Eventually I expect the vassals of the lannisters to colonize so far afield, as well as the various Lannister cadet branches and cousins-that they will beyond House Lannister of Casterly Rock's ability to control them. Simply due to the logistical limits of feudal technology and horses. This will of course continue as more of the world is settled-within say 500 years-House Lannister of Casterly Rock may still survive-but it will likely be one kingdom among many, with its relations and vassals having colonized so far afield they are different nations for all intents and purposes-say for example the westerlands are ISOTed to say what would be modern france-eventually colonists will make it to what would be Russia-by that point their basically a separate kingdom whose ancestors were Lannister vassals or cousins.

Paleolithic populations would be of no real consequence-at best they might be a small nuisance, but they will easily be absorbed or destroyed simply due to the Westermen's much greater numerical weight.

As an aside-Hear Me Roar is probably the greatest ASOIAF/LOTR crossover ever and one of the best Lannister fics in the fandom and I would argue one of the best fics overall-and I would be happy to see it rebooted one day and completed.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

How exactly would they go on about absorbing said paleolithic peoples? I imagine things will be pretty awkward even should the Westerlanders come in in-peace and not raid

They may think that they’re “demons” because metal armor, especially iron, is beyond them

How would religion, especially one as organized as the Faith of the Seven survive and adapt? I imagine that some place will be the area for a new High Septon and it may not even be in the Westerlands

Also, what would happen to the main Lannister family? I imagine that Jaime will be pressured to become King or Prince of The Westerlands/Rock

Or Joffrey(what a disaster)will become King.....and Tywin has to spend time telling people not to follow his insanely violent and violently insane orders

 

[Deleted member 88]

How exactly would they go on about absorbing said paleolithic peoples? I imagine things will be pretty awkward even should the Westerlanders come in in-peace and not raid

They may think that they’re “demons” because metal armor, especially iron, is beyond them

How would religion, especially one as organized as the Faith of the Seven survive and adapt? I imagine that some place will be the area for a new High Septon and it may not even be in the Westerlands

Also, what would happen to the main Lannister family? I imagine that Jaime will be pressured to become King or Prince of The Westerlands/Rock

Or Joffrey(what a disaster)will become King.....and Tywin has to spend time telling people not to follow his insanely violent and violently insane orders

The Paleolithic peoples do not have either the numbers or the technology to meet the Westerosi on even subordinate terms.

They will be destroyed or assimilated. Its hard to visualize-but the population densities as well as the technological disparity mean that the paleolithic peoples aren't even really going to be factor.

The Faith of the Seven would likely develop the notion the Seven brought them to this world for the sake of spreading the faith, and for House Lannister ruling said world. Though as time goes on I expect splinter sects will emerge which will form their own religions.

Yeah Jaimie will be pressured into being his father's heir. No one to marry him off to except a vassal(unlike Eowyn-which is where Hear Me Roar seemed to be going), as for Joffrey-Cersei's children will likely be given Castamere or some other seat as there is no point in having a Baratheon king anymore. Cersei and Tyrion alongside the various Lannister cousins likely marry various vassals or otherwise live uneventful lives(though Tyrion might have some adventures somewhere).

Joffrey won't be a source of conflict like he was in Hear Me Roar-because there is nobody around for him to actually use to cause trouble. Tywin's vassals obey him, not his grandson. The boy king without a throne.

He probably gets packed off to the maesters or otherwise marginalized-as losing his kingdom and birthright for a world of primitives and savages is likely going to leave him agitated and angry. But he's just Tywin's grandson here. So maybe he will get scared straight or beaten into obedience.

Generally in Hear Me Roar style ISOTs(that is scenarios where the Lannisters and Westermen are ISOTed out of Westeros into some other world)-the "Baratheon" children are basically superfluous or are political pawns depending on the exact context. As without the Iron Throne, their just Cersei's kids. Their not heirs of the Rock, and don't really advance Tywin's ambition or secure his legacy.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The Faith of the Seven would likely develop the notion the Seven brought them to this world for the sake of spreading the faith, and for House Lannister ruling said world. Though as time goes on I expect splinter sects will emerge which will form their own religions.

I can imagine that trying to preach even to small groups of neolithic tribesmen who manage to communicate, will result in said split-offs having said tribesmen decide that "The Warrior" is another name for their equivalent of an extremely crazy war god......may weird out the Septons and Septa's to know that their noble Warrior has been translated to them to be such a monster and whoremonger

Yeah Jaimie will be pressured into being his father's heir. No one to marry him off to except a vassal(unlike Eowyn-which is where Hear Me Roar seemed to be going), as for Joffrey-Cersei's children will likely be given Castamere or some other seat as there is no point in having a Baratheon king anymore. Cersei and Tyrion alongside the various Lannister cousins likely marry various vassals or otherwise live uneventful lives(though Tyrion might have some adventures somewhere).

I wonder what it would take to convince Jaime to be his father's heir and marry some girl who's not Cersei.

Probably a girl less than half his age, would be among the only or most of the candidates available for him.

Generally in Hear Me Roar style ISOTs(that is scenarios where the Lannisters and Westermen are ISOTed out of Westeros into some other world)-the "Baratheon" children are basically superfluous or are political pawns depending on the exact context. As without the Iron Throne, their just Cersei's kids. Their not heirs of the Rock, and don't really advance Tywin's ambition or secure his legacy.

Unless Jaime croaks or disappears, somehow Tywin still hasn't remarried for decades(maybe because he married Joanna for love but expects different from his own children and everybody else) and he really doesn't like Tyrion, I could see him going from Joffrey to Tommen.

Tommen will be less innocent and nice if so

 

[Deleted member 88]

I can imagine that trying to preach even to small groups of neolithic tribesmen who manage to communicate, will result in said split-offs having said tribesmen decide that "The Warrior" is another name for their equivalent of an extremely crazy war god......may weird out the Septons and Septa's to know that their noble Warrior has been translated to them to be such a monster and whoremonger



I wonder what it would take to convince Jaime to be his father's heir and marry some girl who's not Cersei.

Probably a girl less than half his age, would be among the only or most of the candidates available for him.



Unless Jaime croaks or disappears, somehow Tywin still hasn't remarried for decades(maybe because he married Joanna for love but expects different from his own children and everybody else) and he really doesn't like Tyrion, I could see him going from Joffrey to Tommen.

Tommen will be less innocent and nice if so

Honestly these Paleolithic tribesman might not even really comprehend much about the Seven. They’d be animists. If even that. Presumably believing spirits exist in various animals, rocks and trees. Actual polytheism or monotheism isn’t even in their mental set.

Jaimie can’t really refuse. And Cersei will be married off herself to cement ties with the lannister’s vassals. He can delay and say no-but eventually without anywhere else to go he’s going to have to marry. Or run off to some distant land-but he’d be on his own then.

Hmm-honestly I don’t think so. Laws of succession aside-I don’t think Tywin would want the Rock to go to a Baratheon if it all possible. I suppose Joffrey or Tommen could change their names but I don’t see that happening. But yeah-that’d be an issue though because Tywin wants a Lannister legacy-he doesn’t want Casterly Rock in the hands of Baratheons(so far as he knows).

Probably. Tommen is going to have innocence and gentleness beaten out of him regardless.