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The Love of Money & Problems It Causes

LordSunhawk

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OK, let me make something very clear.

When Christians speak of 'love of money', we are NOT talking about legitimately acquired wealth, nor about wanting to be paid a fair price for goods and services and labor, nor about investing wisely and saving across generations.

Love of money involves loving money so much that you are willing to commit fraud to get more, willing to steal to get more, willing to embezzle to get more, willing to engage in unethical acts in order to get more. When money is more important to you than family, more important to you than justice, more important to you than God, then you have fallen into the sin of Greed and the love of money.

Likewise 'worshipping at the altar of Mammon' and the rest.

Conflating a condemnation of fraud, embezzlement, and theft with supporting socialism? Really?
 

GoldRanger

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OK, let me make something very clear.

When Christians speak of 'love of money', we are NOT talking about legitimately acquired wealth, nor about wanting to be paid a fair price for goods and services and labor, nor about investing wisely and saving across generations.

Love of money involves loving money so much that you are willing to commit fraud to get more, willing to steal to get more, willing to embezzle to get more, willing to engage in unethical acts in order to get more. When money is more important to you than family, more important to you than justice, more important to you than God, then you have fallen into the sin of Greed and the love of money.

Likewise 'worshipping at the altar of Mammon' and the rest.

Conflating a condemnation of fraud, embezzlement, and theft with supporting socialism? Really?
Excuse me, but members of this thread said that the very concept of money is the problem. You're currently speaking for yourself only.
 

LordsFire

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Excuse me, but members of this thread said that the very concept of money is the problem. You're currently speaking for yourself only.
When you post this:

As is clearly evident by this thread, both those types agree that "worshipping at the altar of Mammon" (a pompous Christian propaganda term for "acknowledging that an economic exchange medium is beneficial to humans and society", aka not being a moron) is bad. In this case we're dealing with Christian zealots, but it appears that their/your ideals are convergent enough to classify both you and commies into a similar, if not entirely identical category of enemy to freedom.
You are failing to in any way specify who you mean, so it is logical for Christians on this thread to conclude you are talking about all of them, because you make no mention of 'non-zealot' Christians.

So, are you strawmanning Christians, or are you just really bad at communicating who you mean?

Either way, please clarify.


This site does a great job of showing how true 'Horseshoe Theory' is for US/Western politics.

Half the time I think the only real difference between the Far-Right and Far-Left is the arguments they use to arrive at nearly the same conclusions.
Also, what conclusions do you mean here?
 
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Bear Ribs

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Excuse me, but members of this thread said that the very concept of money is the problem. You're currently speaking for yourself only.
Who said that? The closest I can find is Bacle who was arguing against it and misrepresenting Love of Money as just Money. Runner up would be Alathon saying money isn't the important thing, labor and production is. However I see half a dozen or so posters talking about love of money, LordSunhawk is hardly only speaking for himself there
 

Alathon

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Excuse me, but members of this thread said that the very concept of money is the problem. You're currently speaking for yourself only.
"Love of money is the root of many evils": what most of us have said.
'money is a convenience for commerce, not a necessity': what I have said.
'people who deal in money without laboring are parasitic': what I have said.

"the very concept of money is the problem": something @GoldRanger has said.

Sounds like you're 're-interpreting' what others say into something different, something they have not said, but which you find easy to attack.
 

GoldRanger

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When you post this:



You are failing to in any way specify who you mean, so it is logical for Christians on this thread to conclude you are talking about all of them, because you make no mention of 'non-zealot' Christians.

So, are you strawmanning Christians, or are you just really bad at communicating who you mean?

Either way, please clarify.




Also, what conclusions do you mean here?
I stated very clearly a few posts upthread that I definitely don't consider all Christians zealots, and that greed is definitely bad and can be a huge problem. But abolishing money altogether is a way too extreme (and stupid) solution. It's like rooting out insurgents by dropping a nuclear bomb on your own city. It's also very similar to Communist talking points. I don't believe all Christians hold such views (referring to abolishing money, NOT that greed is bad, which is both a Christian and a reasonable view.

Who said that? The closest I can find is Bacle who was arguing against it and misrepresenting Love of Money as just Money. Runner up would be Alathon saying money isn't the important thing, labor and production is. However I see half a dozen or so posters talking about love of money, LordSunhawk is hardly only speaking for himself there
Now that's a falsehood if ever I've heard one.

Goods and services are regularly obtained without money and have always been obtained without money. Barter is impractical as a replacement for currency, but good will works just fine -- so long as one is part of a cohesive community centered on something real, like family and/or Christ. It is a failing of degenerate modern societies that they have replaced community with finance as a means of exchanging goods and services. There are still people who do a lot of this, but they tend to be rural, clannish, and poorly represented in corporate media.
"Love of money is the root of many evils": what most of us have said.
'money is a convenience for commerce, not a necessity': what I have said.
'people who deal in money without laboring are parasitic': what I have said.

"the very concept of money is the problem": something @GoldRanger has said.

Sounds like you're 're-interpreting' what others say into something different, something they have not said, but which you find easy to attack.
You're literally saying that money is not needed at all as long as everyone does everything for free and believes in Jesus Christ strongly enough :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

Alathon

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You're literally saying that money is not needed at all as long as everyone does everything for free and believes in Jesus Christ strongly enough :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
Everyone giving freely to those in need, secure in the knowledge that they will receive in need?

Sounds like the Kingdom of Heaven.
 
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GoldRanger

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Everyone giving freely to those in need, secure in the knowledge that they will receive in need?

Sounds like the Kingdom of Heaven.
Which to me sounds like a codeword for a communist utopia. Maybe in the afterlife such a thing is possible, but that's not my place to say. Here in the mortal world, this is an impossibility.
 

Alathon

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Which to me sounds like a codeword for a communist utopia. Maybe in the afterlife such a thing is possible, but that's not my place to say. Here in the mortal world, this is an impossibility.
I'm willing to believe it's impossible for you... who have yet to acknowledge that you were straw-manning half the thread.
 

GoldRanger

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I'm willing to believe it's impossible for you... who have yet to acknowledge that you were straw-manning half the thread.
It's impossible for any human community larger than a family, for any longer than a couple of years. Including a Christian one.

I was not strawmanning. In fact, you're trying to argue right this fucking minute that society doesn't need money.
 

Alathon

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It's impossible for any human community larger than a family, for any longer than a couple of years. Including a Christian one.

I was not strawmanning. In fact, you're trying to argue right this fucking minute that society doesn't need money.
Excuse me, but members of this thread said that the very concept of money is the problem. You're currently speaking for yourself only.
 

GoldRanger

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And that's exactly what you, a member of this thread, is saying.

Money is bad, we can totally live without it = arguing against the concept of money, it's the exact same fucking thing. If you meant something else state your meaning in plain English instead of larping as an SB mod and trying to accuse me of debating in bad faith.
 

King Arts

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It's impossible for any human community larger than a family, for any longer than a couple of years. Including a Christian one.

I was not strawmanning. In fact, you're trying to argue right this fucking minute that society doesn't need money.
Looking at Israeli kibbutz and early villages before coins were minted for money proves you wrong. Those societies used barter. While money is better than barter it isn’t necessary since we existed before it. God did not create money before or at the same time as Adam. Humans made money.
 

GoldRanger

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Looking at Israeli kibbutz and early villages before coins were minted for money proves you wrong. Those societies used barter. While money is better than barter it isn’t necessary since we existed before it. God did not create money before or at the same time as Adam. Humans made money.
LOL the Kibutzes failed spectacularly, the ones that survived are completely privatized.

Seriously, am I being pranked? Are the right-wingers here genuinely advocating for Communism now? Because holy fucking shit.

And no shit that humans created money. Did I ever say otherwise?
 

LordsFire

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LOL the Kibutzes failed spectacularly, the ones that survived are completely privatized.

Seriously, am I being pranked? Are the right-wingers here genuinely advocating for Communism now? Because holy fucking shit.

And no shit that humans created money. Did I ever say otherwise?
King Arts is hardly 'right wing.' I don't know if I've seen him argue for a single conservative or right wing position, but given I don't keep highly detailed mental records of his positions, it's possible I'm forgetting a thing or two.
 

PsihoKekec

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The only reason marxist garbage got traction in the west is because worship of money replaced actual values, it was the monied elite that pushed atomization of society into individual economic units for better monetization, it is no surprise that the modern left works for corporations.
 

Abhishekm

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Meh, paper money has always been kinda dodgy. Its just the kinda dodgy people have to put up with. Like road signs and licensing.

Sure the argument can be that Gold and any actually backed currency is kinds like Barter but with a preagreed common item. But thats what money is you know minus the having it actually backed by anything more than the word of politicians....I forget what point I as trying to make. Ah well, Fractional Reserve banking is still a inflation con though.

Mediums of Exchange people! They break down if people can pretent to have more of it than they do!
 
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Captain X

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The reason Marxist garbage got purchase in the west is because it failed to live up to its stated principles of equality of opportunity. This allowed the Marxists to just do some slight edits to their materials to replace "class" with "race." They sell an appealing message about "equality" or "equity," but what it really amounts to is revenge for real or imagined past "crimes" which probably weren't even committed by the people they want revenge against.
 

Terthna

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Meh, paper money has always been kinda dodgy. Its just the kinda dodgy people have to put up with. Like road signs and licensing.

Sure the argument can be that Gold and any actually backed currency is kinds like Barter but with a preagreed common item. But thats what money is you know minus the having it actually backed by anything more than the word of politicians....I forget what point I as trying to make. Ah well, Fractional Reserve banking is still a inflation con though.

Mediums of Exchange people! They break down if people can pretent to have more of it than they do!
Paper money isn't the problem; the entire system is corrupt.
 
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