Fallout The Enclave had a Civil War as to avoid exterminating wastelanders but instead to make them Americans again?

[CarlManvers2019]

I haven’t played Fallout 2 but I wonder, how would things go if the Enclave was split and even shocked about calls for mass genocide and thought that while sorta mutated, the Wastelanders could still be made Americans again

To this end aside from doing said Civil War, they reach out to various Wasteland powers in an effort to rebuild society and get the numbers and resources to stop the genocidal half of the Enclave

“We won’t prove the Communists right about all these accusations of Nazism, these people are Americans, sure they are mutated, poor, uneducated, violent, dirty, drug addicted but I have seen that they are rebuilding civilization to varying degrees. It is up to us as the last enclave of freedom to guide them towards a better path, back to being Americans once more!!!”

I presume this would lead to what remains of the Enclave sorta weakened unfortunately, though they could maybe give the NCR a headstart or make it an era of 1000 Americas

 

[PsihoKekec]

Just because they don't want to mass murder everyone it doesn't mean they are willing to share power. So most likely they wouldn't share power with various emerging states of the shattered USA. They have the map of Vaults, so instead of massacring their inhabitants/using them as test subject, they would incorporate these people into their new America, using Vaults as outpost to spread their influence amongst smaller communities fuhrterly streghtening their regime.

I reckon their grand plan would be to establish forward bases on the mainland, entice the smaller communities to join them via promises of safety and technology, thus increasing your population. Then start building up infrastructure supporting your mainland territories and educating the newly incorporated population. When you encounter larger entities like NCR, try to establish diplomatic links and open trade routes, getting them hooked on your high quality goods (do not sell them anything that could improve their tech base), thus opening channels for your media propaganda.

However, if they overextend themselves, their expansion plans might collapse like house of cards.

 

[Duke Nukem]

The Enclave would probably be the best faction for Post war america If it wasn't for their genocidal tendencies.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The Enclave would probably be the best faction for Post war america If it wasn't for their genocidal tendencies.

What about other corruption or maybe doing politics and messing things up while being “helpful”

I don’t think they’ll want taxes that result in lots of bottlecaps

Or deal with economies that use radioactively preserved food and mutant cow

 

[Duke Nukem]

What about other corruption or maybe doing politics and messing things up while being “helpful”

I don’t think they’ll want taxes that result in lots of bottlecaps

Or deal with economies that use radioactively preserved food and mutant cow

True, but I think most wastelanders will take anything over their current conditions if it meant they would be safe.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

True, but I think most wastelanders will take anything over their current conditions if it meant they would be safe.

How will they even properly tax them?

 

[Navarro]

Just because they don't want to mass murder everyone it doesn't mean they are willing to share power. So most likely they wouldn't share power with various emerging states of the shattered USA. They have the map of Vaults, so instead of massacring their inhabitants/using them as test subject, they would incorporate these people into their new America, using Vaults as outpost to spread their influence amongst smaller communities fuhrterly streghtening their regime.

I reckon their grand plan would be to establish forward bases on the mainland, entice the smaller communities to join them via promises of safety and technology, thus increasing your population. Then start building up infrastructure supporting your mainland territories and educating the newly incorporated population. When you encounter larger entities like NCR, try to establish diplomatic links and open trade routes, getting them hooked on your high quality goods (do not sell them anything that could improve their tech base), thus opening channels for your media propaganda.

However, if they overextend themselves, their expansion plans might collapse like house of cards.

What about ... flying over to the east coast, conquering the minor powers and city states there, then starting to expand and consolidate with the eventual aim of pushing to the Pacific? I know a guy who made a fanfic like that ... think the title started with an "A" ...

 

[Husky_Khan]

Yeah I honestly don't see the Enclave with their mentality doing very well when confronting the New California Republic. The former is rather authoritarian and the latter not... though with Tandi as the democratically elected President for Life it is perhaps deceptively stable since she is basically a 'Great Woman' in history leading this nation. The thing is, we have seen President Richardson. Even if he ditches the genocide boner he doesn't seem to play well with others and I don't see NCR actually willing to bend the knee to the Enclave.

Maybe the Enclave can expand in non-NCR areas and while trading Enclave suzereignty for security does seem like an appealing idea for many, I'm not so sure. I'm trying to thing of specific examples but in general I do feel there is an Old West as well as 1950's streak (obviously) in Fallout and what comes with that is the idea of independence both on a individual and community scale.

This was obviously a big theme in Fallout: New Vegas with all of the small towns there very ambivalent and leery about both the NCR and the Legion and there was even an ending No Gods, No Masters which preached it. I feel that was a theme in earlier Fallout games as well however. Like in regards to the Redding storylines especially vis-a-vis their relationship with Vault City and how poorly that ending would turn out if Redding joined Vault City, or Vault City and New Reno or even Redding again in regards to their relations with the NCR... or the Ghoul community and Vault City etc. And the community of Broken Hills.

Basically... security is nice. But I'm not sure how popular Enclave's idea of security would be accepted by the communities by and large considering how the far *softer* security offered by the NCR, or Vault City or what have you was received. Which ultimately means that security would probably he have to brought in... under the very prominent threat (and with Richardson and his types in charge) and use of violence.

In a case like that the security offered by the New California Republic and their Brotherhood of Steel buddies (a friendship that will undoubtedly last) would probably seem far more preferable to that of the NCR.

Unless President Richardson is willing to allow (and convince) the Enclave to be accepted into the NCR I suppose. Try and transform it from the inside and play by Tandi's rules and under her Presidency (for however much longer that will last). Maybe after Tandi passes on the Enclave can try and be more forward with however they want to reshape the world using their inclusion and incorporation into the NCR as a vehicle for that change and Make America Great Again!!!

 

[Navarro]

Yeah I honestly don't see the Enclave with their mentality doing very well when confronting the New California Republic. The former is rather authoritarian and the latter not... though with Tandi as the democratically elected President for Life it is perhaps deceptively stable since she is basically a 'Great Woman' in history leading this nation. The thing is, we have seen President Richardson. Even if he ditches the genocide boner he doesn't seem to play well with others and I don't see NCR actually willing to bend the knee to the Enclave.

Which is why avoiding the NCR for the time being and relocating to the east coast is the way to go. The Enclave has the capability to do that with ease, as they were able to do it after the blow that the destruction of the oil rig represented.

Maybe the Enclave can expand in non-NCR areas and while trading Enclave suzereignty for security does seem like an appealing idea for many, I'm not so sure. I'm trying to thing of specific examples but in general I do feel there is an Old West as well as 1950's streak (obviously) in Fallout and what comes with that is the idea of independence both on a individual and community scale.

If communities are allowed to stick to pre-existing democratic forms of governance, with State/Commonwealth/Federal tiers above them also being democratic (as they were at least in theory under Richardson), I can't see why it would be impossible.

Basically... security is nice. But I'm not sure how popular Enclave's idea of security would be accepted by the communities by and large considering how the far *softer* security offered by the NCR, or Vault City or what have you was received. Which ultimately means that security would probably he have to brought in... under the very prominent threat (and with Richardson and his types in charge) and use of violence.

The threat of violence would be a part. But propaganda and humanitarian aid would also play a major role. Medical support, supplying clean water, etc. And there's the propaganda aspect of "we're the American government, coming to bring back the pre-War glory days!".

In a case like that the security offered by the New California Republic and their Brotherhood of Steel buddies (a friendship that will undoubtedly last) would probably seem far more preferable to that of the NCR.

Which is why you move to a place where the NCR isn't an alternative, and build from there.

Unless President Richardson is willing to allow (and convince) the Enclave to be accepted into the NCR I suppose. Try and transform it from the inside and play by Tandi's rules and under her Presidency (for however much longer that will last). Maybe after Tandi passes on the Enclave can try and be more forward with however they want to reshape the world using their inclusion and incorporation into the NCR as a vehicle for that change and Make America Great Again!!!

That's also a possibility, but it's unlikely to be seriously considered. The Enclave views itself as the legitimate government of the USA - I can't see them willingly subordinating themselves to New California in any scenario.