The 1945 Viet Minh vs. the 1914/1940 French military

[WolfBear]

How would the 1945 Viet Minh have compared against the 1914 French military? What about the 1945 Viet Minh vs. the 1940 French military from right before the Fall of France?

In real life, the Viet Minh were able to defeat the French in the First Indochina War, but only after years of fighting and not quite a total victory since South Vietnam still remained outside of Communist rule for the time being. However, they were fighting against a France that had its military power destroyed by Nazi Germany in 1940 and which was under Nazi German occupation for several years, which won't be the case here.

Anyway, any thoughts on how these two match-ups would have went?

 

[sillygoose]

How would the 1945 Viet Minh have compared against the 1914 French military? What about the 1945 Viet Minh vs. the 1940 French military from right before the Fall of France?

In real life, the Viet Minh were able to defeat the French in the First Indochina War, but only after years of fighting and not quite a total victory since South Vietnam still remained outside of Communist rule for the time being. However, they were fighting against a France that had its military power destroyed by Nazi Germany in 1940 and which was under Nazi German occupation for several years, which won't be the case here.

Anyway, any thoughts on how these two match-ups would have went?

The VM would have a lot better weapons, which coupled with guerrilla warfare and lots of experience would give them a major edge fighting in their own country. The 1940 French military would be a different animal altogether, but still the VM would have an edge given the lack of French aircraft.

 

[WolfBear]

The VM would have a lot better weapons, which coupled with guerrilla warfare and lots of experience would give them a major edge fighting in their own country. The 1940 French military would be a different animal altogether, but still the VM would have an edge given the lack of French aircraft.

Can the French build aircraft over time and send them over to Indochina?

 

[sillygoose]

Can the French build aircraft over time and send them over to Indochina?

Sure, but given the problems in Europe they wouldn't. Then there is a problem of keeping European designed aircraft working in the colonies; the British had issues with that in SE Asia when they were fighting there in WW2.

Also I was a bit off about the Viet Minh; turns out they depended on Japanese defectors in 1945 to start getting trained up in actual tactics and military skills:

First Indochina War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

After their surrender, the Japanese Army gave weapons to the Việt Minh. In order to further help the nationalists, the Japanese kept Vichy French officials and military officers imprisoned for a month after the surrender. OSS officers met repeatedly with Hồ Chí Minh and other Việt Minh officers during this period.[41] The Việt Minh recruited more than 600 Japanese soldiers and gave them roles to train or command Vietnamese soldiers.[42][43]

Then things play out like the First Indochina war:

First Indochina War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[WolfBear]

Sure, but given the problems in Europe they wouldn't. Then there is a problem of keeping European designed aircraft working in the colonies; the British had issues with that in SE Asia when they were fighting there in WW2.

Also I was a bit off about the Viet Minh; turns out they depended on Japanese defectors in 1945 to start getting trained up in actual tactics and military skills:

First Indochina War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then things play out like the First Indochina war:

First Indochina War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What if you'll get the 1940 French military with no war going on in Europe during this time?

 

[sillygoose]

What if you'll get the 1940 French military with no war going on in Europe during this time?

They still need to keep stuff at home in case. Most stuff. France in the 1930s was seriously messed up, so by 1940 they were well short of being ready for a serious conflict.

 

[WolfBear]

They still need to keep stuff at home in case. Most stuff. France in the 1930s was seriously messed up, so by 1940 they were well short of being ready for a serious conflict.

What about the 1940 French military vs. the 1941 Viet Minh?

 

[sillygoose]

What about the 1940 French military vs. the 1941 Viet Minh?

France 100%.

 

[WolfBear]

France 100%.

No contest? The Viet Minh really were that weak in 1941? If so, what about them in 1942, 1943, or 1944 vs. 1940 France?

 

[sillygoose]

No contest? The Viet Minh really were that weak in 1941? If so, what about them in 1942, 1943, or 1944 vs. 1940 France?

Yes. They were pretty weak in 1945, but much more developed than in 1941.

 

[WolfBear]

Yes. They were pretty weak in 1945, but much more developed than in 1941.

Interesting. So, the 1940 Fall of France really did significantly help the Viet Minh, eh?

 

[sillygoose]

Interesting. So, the 1940 Fall of France really did significantly help the Viet Minh, eh?

Oh yeah. So did the Japanese.

 

[ATP]

The VM would have a lot better weapons, which coupled with guerrilla warfare and lots of experience would give them a major edge fighting in their own country. The 1940 French military would be a different animal altogether, but still the VM would have an edge given the lack of French aircraft.

They have - but all obsolate,except few MS406 and Potez 63.

 

[WolfBear]

Oh yeah. So did the Japanese.

Just how much would the Viet Minh have been hurt by the lack of Chinese aid and Chinese safe havens?

 

[sillygoose]

Just how much would the Viet Minh have been hurt by the lack of Chinese aid and Chinese safe havens?

Did they have much during the First Indochinese war?

 

[ATP]

Just how much would the Viet Minh have been hurt by the lack of Chinese aid and Chinese safe havens?

There would be no soviet help,too - they have no means to deliver.But,Viet could told soviets about history 1920-1950 - it would help Sralin.