Versus Match Survival "Horror" Versus Match: Who Can Escape the Zombified City First?

[Husky_Khan]

During a semi generic Zombie takeover of some random anonymous city, four individuals are trapped near the center of the city and have to make their escape! The city has your usual heavily urbanized downtown with skyscrapers and the like... but there is also a great deal of suburban sprawl as well... and it's all filled with glorious zombies and other biological nasties!!! Joy! Needless to say... you can't just drive on out of the city due to abandoned roadblocks, collapsed bridges/tunnels, huge car blockages and other things. Airports are devastated. Sewers are blocked, noxious and filled with giant mutant crocodiles.

Oh and there's probably generic KILLSQUADS(tm) of elite mooks in Hazmat/MOPP suits with automatic weapons going around killing people for nebulous reasons.

And each of these protags can't just save themselves... but also a healthy, relatively intelligent athletic young female twenty something with negligible combat skills who is either their love interest or loved one and cannot be abandoned.

Most of the adversaries in the city are your standard Zombies and tend to shamble around, but a large portion are also fast zombies who can run, sprint, climb and jump as well. Bites carry an infection but are survivable if treated in the first 24 hours or whatever (so escape by then) and zombies can be killed through the standard destruction of the brain or central nervous system.

There are other monsters too however including (but not limited to):

Lickers (Resident Evil) who can leap, climb, have deadly claws and lancelike tongues and sense targets via noise and are extremely fast and somewhat durable (requiring many pistol shots or a few shotgun blasts to fell).

The Tank (Left 4 Dead) who are just giant, musclebound and sprinty huge zombies who can soak up a lot of damage and possess incredibly superhuman strength.

Volatile (Dying Light) who are extremely fast and nimble and strong and can spit acidic phlegm but typically only come out at night.

Demon (Metro Last Light) Horse sized, bat winged gargoyle like aerial predators who can claw, scream and overturn mid sized vehicles with their mighty strength.

Also... just in case... there are also delightful giant zombie alligators in the sewers and waterways, zombie dogs romping about and the aforementioned KILL SQUADS trying to kill all witnesses!

Who escapes alive and if more then one does... who escapes first? They will not work together (and if you need to, consider the scenarios separate) but they can actively impede or obstruct their rivals since for some reason they and their loved one must escape first for.... plot reasons.

They are:

John Wick: Starts out in a (normal) hotel room with two handguns and fifty rounds of ammunition, and a knife.

John Wick

"When Helen died, I lost everything. Until that dog arrived on my doorstep. A final gift from my wife. In that moment, I received some semblance of hope. An opportunity to grieve unalone. And your son took that from me! Stole that from me! Killed that from me! People keep asking if I'm back. And...

john-wick.fandom.com

Jason Bourne: Starts out in a police substation holding cell with a lockpick.

Jason Bourne

"I can tell you the license plate numbers of all six cars outside. I can tell you that our waitress is left-handed and the guy sitting up at the counter weighs two hundred fifteen pounds and knows how to handle himself. I know the best place to look for a gun is the cab of the gray truck...

bourne.fandom.com

John Rambo: Starts out in a Home Goods store with a really big knife.

John Rambo

"I've lived in a world of death. I tried to come home, but I never really arrived. A part of my mind and soul... got lost along the way. But my heart was still here, where I was born. Where I would defend to the end... the only family I've ever known. The only home I've ever known. All the ones...

rambo.fandom.com

Bruce Wayne: Starts out on a low level buildings rooftop with his armored batsuit (wingsuit yes, taser suit no), grapple gun and a plethora of batarangs, flashbangs and smokebombs.

Bruce Wayne (Nolanverse)

Bruce Wayne was the Batman, a brave and short-tempered vigilante, and an emotionally unstable billionaire in his civilian identity. Prior to his retirement, he helped protect Gotham City from Ra's al Ghul, the Joker and Bane as Batman. Bruce Wayne was born to Thomas and Martha Wayne, two...

dc.fandom.com

 

[Duke Nukem]

During a semi generic Zombie takeover of some random anonymous city, four individuals are trapped near the center of the city and have to make their escape! The city has your usual heavily urbanized downtown with skyscrapers and the like... but there is also a great deal of suburban sprawl as well... and it's all filled with glorious zombies and other biological nasties!!! Joy! Needless to say... you can't just drive on out of the city due to abandoned roadblocks, collapsed bridges/tunnels, huge car blockages and other things. Airports are devastated. Sewers are blocked, noxious and filled with giant mutant crocodiles.

Oh and there's probably generic KILLSQUADS(tm) of elite mooks in Hazmat/MOPP suits with automatic weapons going around killing people for nebulous reasons.

And each of these protags can't just save themselves... but also a healthy, relatively intelligent athletic young female twenty something with negligible combat skills who is either their love interest or loved one and cannot be abandoned.

Most of the adversaries in the city are your standard Zombies and tend to shamble around, but a large portion are also fast zombies who can run, sprint, climb and jump as well. Bites carry an infection but are survivable if treated in the first 24 hours or whatever (so escape by then) and zombies can be killed through the standard destruction of the brain or central nervous system.

There are other monsters too however including (but not limited to):

Lickers (Resident Evil) who can leap, climb, have deadly claws and lancelike tongues and sense targets via noise and are extremely fast and somewhat durable (requiring many pistol shots or a few shotgun blasts to fell).

The Tank (Left 4 Dead) who are just giant, musclebound and sprinty huge zombies who can soak up a lot of damage and possess incredibly superhuman strength.

Volatile (Dying Light) who are extremely fast and nimble and strong and can spit acidic phlegm but typically only come out at night.

Demon (Metro Last Light) Horse sized, bat winged gargoyle like aerial predators who can claw, scream and overturn mid sized vehicles with their mighty strength.

Also... just in case... there are also delightful giant zombie alligators in the sewers and waterways, zombie dogs romping about and the aforementioned KILL SQUADS trying to kill all witnesses!

Who escapes alive and if more then one does... who escapes first? They will not work together (and if you need to, consider the scenarios separate) but they can actively impede or obstruct their rivals since for some reason they and their loved one must escape first for.... plot reasons.

They are:

John Wick: Starts out in a (normal) hotel room with two handguns and fifty rounds of ammunition, and a knife.

John Wick

"When Helen died, I lost everything. Until that dog arrived on my doorstep. A final gift from my wife. In that moment, I received some semblance of hope. An opportunity to grieve unalone. And your son took that from me! Stole that from me! Killed that from me! People keep asking if I'm back. And...

john-wick.fandom.com

Jason Bourne: Starts out in a police substation holding cell with a lockpick.

Jason Bourne

"I can tell you the license plate numbers of all six cars outside. I can tell you that our waitress is left-handed and the guy sitting up at the counter weighs two hundred fifteen pounds and knows how to handle himself. I know the best place to look for a gun is the cab of the gray truck...

bourne.fandom.com

John Rambo: Starts out in a Home Goods store with a really big knife.

John Rambo

"I've lived in a world of death. I tried to come home, but I never really arrived. A part of my mind and soul... got lost along the way. But my heart was still here, where I was born. Where I would defend to the end... the only family I've ever known. The only home I've ever known. All the ones...

rambo.fandom.com

Bruce Wayne: Starts out on a low level buildings rooftop with his armored batsuit (wingsuit yes, taser suit no), grapple gun and a plethora of batarangs, flashbangs and smokebombs.

Bruce Wayne (Nolanverse)

Bruce Wayne was the Batman, a brave and short-tempered vigilante, and an emotionally unstable billionaire in his civilian identity. Prior to his retirement, he helped protect Gotham City from Ra's al Ghul, the Joker and Bane as Batman. Bruce Wayne was born to Thomas and Martha Wayne, two...

dc.fandom.com

They could all escape, but it would be the easiest for Batman to make it out of the city.

 

[Abhorsen]

Batman, then Wick, then Bourne, then Rambo. Basically, the ones most capable of sneaking win. Alternatively, Batman could be last because of his saving people thing.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Batman, then Wick, then Bourne, then Rambo. Basically, the ones most capable of sneaking win. Alternatively, Batman could be last because of his saving people thing.

Rambo is fantastically stealthy, thats his whole gimmick. 9/10 times Wick just Grey-Man's in a straight line up to his target and shoots them, he's impressive because of his ridiculous combat abilities more than his stealth.

 

[PsihoKekec]

But the rescuee he is saddled with isn't stealth. So the best course of action for every one of them is to find the least dangerous path and clear out the enemies in the way.
Batman might have an edge here because he has lot of experience with rescuing civilians.
John Wick has ridcolously OP combat skilz so he just snaps the necks of common zombies in the way and shoots the more dangerous threats, but soon ammo becomes scarce, so he will have to hunt mooks a bit, to get more ammo and assault rifle.
Bourne has a bit less OP skilz, so he will need more ammo, but he can stock up at the police station. His skills at dodging electronic surveillence are useless here though.
Rambo is the least OP of them all, so his task will be the hardest. His skills at improvised weapons do not work that well on enemies that need to have their brain destroyed in order to be stoped.

 

[prinCZess]

Well, John Rambo and his escort are definitely going to make it out alive, but they will be the slowest obviously because starting out in a home goods store with a dainty female sidekick there's going to be an extended montage of them jerry-rigging fighting tools and distractions and the like together whilst John becomes attached to her and vice-versa. The eventual escape will be the culmination of that extended montage and very explodey and big-budget, but it'll take some time to build up to.

Bourne, from what I vaguely remember...kind of has a bad record when it comes to protecting people? And being more akin to the traditional super-spy than an outright action hero as the others are...I think he'd take time at least? Maybe even have difficulty making it? It's been a long time since I watched a Bourne film, but I'm pretty sure he's more guile and hijinks oriented than the others, and kind've like Rambo that seems like it'd take time to prep and organize for him.

Wick and Batman, I think, would compete for first-place in how fast they could make it out...Provided neither gets distracted by alternative heroics that don't pertain solely to their escort. Which it seems a safe bet they both would--maybe Wick would be less likely, but he's still got a pretty strong underlying bit of do-gooderism, and he'd have an associate who'd probably be acting as a firm 'we need to save them too.' conscience for him that would overrule his international man-of-mystery assassin facade.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

His skills at improvised weapons do not work that well on enemies that need to have their brain destroyed in order to be stopped.

Ah yes, the max brooks school of thought.

There is a steep difference between needing your brain destroyed to be killed, and needing your brain destroyed to be stopped. A simple cable across a street would slow any zombie horde to a glacial pace, let alone anything Rambo pieced together.

But the rescuee he is saddled with isn't stealth.

I was responding specifically to a point about "sneaking", by the way. The reason Batman makes it out first is because he's got a thousand times the mobility of the others. As for Wick and Bourne, Bourne probably has to slow down less to collect more ammo, because a police station would have literally as much ammunition as he and the girl could carry stored up, so Bourne probably makes it out faster than John.


This situation basically starts John wick off in an extremely resource tight situation, Rambo in an environment he'd be likely to turtle in, Batman standing right next to the finish line, and Jason Bourne with a thousand rounds of ammunition and several guns. It's not exactly an even fight. Batman will have probably cleared the city limits by the time Wick and Bourne are even done clearing their starting area, the OP might as well have given him a plane.

 

[Husky_Khan]

But the rescuee he is saddled with isn't stealth. So the best course of action for every one of them is to find the least dangerous path and clear out the enemies in the way.
Batman might have an edge here because he has lot of experience with rescuing civilians.
John Wick has ridcolously OP combat skilz so he just snaps the necks of common zombies in the way and shoots the more dangerous threats, but soon ammo becomes scarce, so he will have to hunt mooks a bit, to get more ammo and assault rifle.
Bourne has a bit less OP skilz, so he will need more ammo, but he can stock up at the police station. His skills at dodging electronic surveillence are useless here though.
Rambo is the least OP of them all, so his task will be the hardest. His skills at improvised weapons do not work that well on enemies that need to have their brain destroyed in order to be stoped.

Yeah I figured that Bourne might be the least OP one here being that a portion of his skills are mitigated by the entire fighting Undead and Infected stuff. So giving him an infested police station to start out in doesn't mean an easy sprint but more resources to start off with.

Rambo always seemed a bit more OP but opinions vary. Denying him guns so he can go more improvised seems delightfully entertaining. Plus he's so strong he can decapitate as needed any undead mooks.

I was pondering if Batman could fly out but a large metropolitan area cant really be glided out of... And if he tried I added the Demons bit. Giant flying bullet sponge mutants who knock over technicals should put a damper on Batgliding. Or prolonged scaling and grapple efforts (along with the other special infected) plus like most cities there's a huge surrounding suburban sprawl so there won't be much gliding from house roof to house roof as just remaining on ground level.

Plus Batman is a fair bit different from the other protags being a "realistic" superhero type. The others happily using guns and more conventional tactics.

John Wick always seemed the most OP. So he gets less resources... But it's a city and yes there are Kill Team Looks to make it more interesting.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Probably won't be much turtling. As per my OP, the protaganists and their loved ones will want to leave the metropolitan area as soon as possible. Maybe there's fear that it'll spread too far for proper evacuation or the government is going to carpet bomb or nuke the whole area, plus bunkering up in many cases might be mitigated by the special infected and kill teams roaming about.

Bourne, from what I vaguely remember...kind of has a bad record when it comes to protecting people? And being more akin to the traditional super-spy than an outright action hero as the others are...I think he'd take time at least? Maybe even have difficulty making it? It's been a long time since I watched a Bourne film, but I'm pretty sure he's more guile and hijinks oriented than the others, and kind've like Rambo that seems like it'd take time to prep and organize for him.

Yes, off the top of my head, I think he's lost three people he's tried to protect. One in each movie he's appeared in actually now that I think about it... and all of them to super elite counter agents who sniped said loved ones IIRC.

And I do feel he's the least OP of the bunch. But his ability to assess threats and dangers and applying his analytical mind to ways of escape, avoidance and combat if necessary usually allows him some nice minimalistic approaches when it comes to problem solving. And it's why I gave him a starting position with relatively speaking, the most resources. Though as we know from Resident Evil 2 overrun police (sub)stations aren't exactly safe places to be.

Wick and Batman, I think, would compete for first-place in how fast they could make it out...Provided neither gets distracted by alternative heroics that don't pertain solely to their escort. Which it seems a safe bet they both would--maybe Wick would be less likely, but he's still got a pretty strong underlying bit of do-gooderism, and he'd have an associate who'd probably be acting as a firm 'we need to save them too.' conscience for him that would overrule his international man-of-mystery assassin facade.

Yeah I wanted to leave the potential of other survivors as kind of an unspoken thing. It's not one of those 'morals or PIS/CIS free scenarios so to speak' and honestly there are so many variables that it'd be vexing to include them all in the opening post as opposed to having it rise organically out of the subsequent conversation. Another thing is all of the other protagonists will use guns and use them rather expediently if needbe. Most incarnations of Batman tend to actually be gun-averse though that goes with the non-killing code. Batman probably doesn't care too much about killing off infected or zombies of course, and the Nolanverse Batman was never explicitly seen as gun averse but the potential is still there to consider. Regardless... some engagements would be tougher without the access to firepower that other characters might more readily employ.

 

[Arlos]

Rambo is fantastically stealthy, thats his whole gimmick. 9/10 times Wick just Grey-Man's in a straight line up to his target and shoots them, he's impressive because of his ridiculous combat abilities more than his stealth.

I agree, but I think Rambo would be busy actually trying to beat the Horde back for a while, so he may not get out immediately
Same for Batman, not sure about Bourne or Wick.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

I was pondering if Batman could fly out but a large metropolitan area cant really be glided out of... And if he tried I added the Demons bit. Giant flying bullet sponge mutants who knock over technicals should put a damper on Batgliding. Or prolonged scaling and grapple efforts (along with the other special infected) plus like most cities there's a huge surrounding suburban sprawl so there won't be much gliding from house roof to house roof as just remaining on ground level.

The thing is, the odds of Batman actually encountering one of those, much less enough to cost him a great deal of time, on a given route of building hopping, is very low. His Grappling/batgliding would only leave him in the air for a brief moment, a second or two, in which case he would be a silent black shape flitting by, basically impossible to pick out even if the city wasn't noisy and confusing as it is. His movement options and virtually straight line routing let him traverse the city an order of magnitude faster, even ignoring the fact that Wick is going to have to either slow down to a snail's crawl to conserve ammo, or wander in circles for hours looking for a swat team to ambush (which... if they were armored realistically, would be a bad call, for him).

Probably won't be much turtling. As per my OP, the protaganists and their loved ones will want to leave the metropolitan area as soon as possible. Maybe there's fear that it'll spread too far for proper evacuation or the government is going to carpet bomb or nuke the whole area, plus bunkering up in many cases might be mitigated by the special infected and kill teams roaming about.

Unless you give him a specific timeframe, Rambo's idea of "as soon as possible" is going to be measured in days at absolute best. The hit squads and special infected are going to make him go to ground harder, not less. It's literally the core concept of his character: When pressured, Rambo digs in.

 

[Husky_Khan]

The idea with the OP stating there was a great deal of suburban sprawl is so that gliding out just won't be an always practical option even if you can get out of the immediate downtown area of the city. The main reason Demons are in this scenario is to inhibit gliding/grappling sort of maneuvers to a large extent (and I wanted to avoid things like swarms of crows or bats because that can make things as unbalanced as hordes of sewer rats). Demons tend to nest on tall buildings and while that might be something Batman can avoid on his own in a built up downtown, when things become more low level in the surrounding areas, Demons will likely be roosting in the only tall buildings that one could find in the outer sprawl, inhibiting his escape if he wants to use altitude to get more linear gliding/grappling as a mobility advantage when he leaves the downtown area with its many skyscrapers. And most metropolitan areas have miles and miles of suburban sprawl anyhow and for the purposes of this scenario, this is more of a metropolitan area with broad surburban sprawl surrounding a downtown center of skyscrapers. If he's trying to get out by avoiding the ground (which is why I put Batman in here in the first place since he has a completely different route of travel then the other three and I wanted to see what contrasts there would be) he'd have to deal with, by proportion more of the special infected and mutants since obviously there'd be a lack of zombie types hanging around up there.

Plus he still has to escort some female around with him as well which can always be a hindrance and as PrinCZess pointed out, he might be a bit of a do-gooder.

You may very well be right of course. It's something I pondered as well when formulating this OP. I was trying to find contrasting characters and give them something more interesting then a head start line with identical equipment or something.

In regards to Wick, I can't recall anytimes when he was particularly stealthy but I've only seen each movie once. I feel like he has been stealthy before, usually at the onset of springing some gunfire laden battle. In the latest movie he did take on a SWAT team of goons in the climax who were covered in bulletproof (at least to most of his weapons anyways) armor and equipped with automatic weapons so ambushing them could be something he does. Otherwise there are probably police stations or gun stores or what have you (that may or may not have been looted) but since I feel he's the most 'OP' when it comes to combat, starting him off with less resources makes more sense to me.

I know Rambo definitely turtled up in the latest Rambo film and there were cases of him springing ambushes in the previous movies against his pursuers, but he's been shown to be rather mobile as well such as in the last halves of Rambo III and Rambo IV and in both cases was escorting someone else.

While turtling up is perfectly fine... the goal here is still extricating themselves safely from the situation as quickly as possible. While it's not hardcoded into their brains or anything, all of the protagonists will feel a very pressing need to leave the city before it's too late because waiting too long would be very bad (ie infection spreads too fast, no evacuation if you wait too long, the city will be nuked/carpet bombed, Nemesis music will start playing and Tyrant style mutants show up etc).

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

The idea with the OP stating there was a great deal of suburban sprawl is so that gliding out just won't be an always practical option even if you can get out of the immediate downtown area of the city.

Right, but thats like saying someone gets to drive a car for the first twenty miles of a marathon, but at least they have to run the last stretch. Just the ability to climb onto roofs in a couple seconds and glide over distances that may be objectively short, but in context represent difficult obstacles to pass from the ground, will increase his speed by an order of magnitude over anyone else.

The main reason Demons are in this scenario is to inhibit gliding/grappling sort of maneuvers to a large extent (and I wanted to avoid things like swarms of crows or bats because that can make things as unbalanced as hordes of sewer rats). Demons tend to nest on tall buildings and while that might be something Batman can avoid on his own in a built up downtown, when things become more low level in the surrounding areas, Demons will likely be roosting in the only tall buildings that one could find in the outer sprawl, inhibiting his escape if he wants to use altitude to get more linear gliding/grappling as a mobility advantage when he leaves the downtown area with its many skyscrapers. And most metropolitan areas have miles and miles of suburban sprawl anyhow and for the purposes of this scenario, this is more of a metropolitan area with broad surburban sprawl surrounding a downtown center of skyscrapers. If he's trying to get out by avoiding the ground (which is why I put Batman in here in the first place since he has a completely different route of travel then the other three and I wanted to see what contrasts there would be) he'd have to deal with, by proportion more of the special infected and mutants since obviously there'd be a lack of zombie types hanging around up there.

Unless there are literally hundreds of thousands of "demons", a stealth master wearing a stealth suit moving rooftop to rooftop is going to encounter very few of them, and there are ten times as many obstacles on the ground for everyone else. Everyone has boss monsters to contend with, but the difference with Batman is that is virtually -all- he has to contend with, and not at a higher rate than the others, and while he only has the Demons, everyone else has a large variety of boss monsters, hordes of zombies, and the possibility of encountering a heavily armed group of mercenaries that they likely do not have the resources to engage on favorable terms.
And this still leaves the fact that he's moving in an almost straight line, whereas everyone else is stuck traversing the city maze-like. Theres a reason for the expression "as the crow flies" after all.

Batman has a tremendous advantage in the city with no downsides (there are boss monsters on the roof, there are boss monsters on the ground, no change) and in the suburbs has a slightly less tremendous advantage with no downsides. The difference between Batman and Jason Bourne in the Suburbs is that nullifying 90% of the threats they might encounter is one grapple to the roof of a house away for batman.

Plus he still has to escort some female around with him as well which can always be a hindrance and as PrinCZess pointed out, he might be a bit of a do-gooder.

Everyone is dragging a woman around, its not going to slow batman down any more than it's going to slow everyone else down. If everyone is moving at 1/2 speed, the proportion remains the same.

In regards to Wick, I can't recall anytimes when he was particularly stealthy but I've only seen each movie once. I feel like he has been stealthy before, usually at the onset of springing some gunfire laden battle. In the latest movie he did take on a SWAT team of goons in the climax who were covered in bulletproof (at least to most of his weapons anyways) armor and equipped with automatic weapons so ambushing them could be something he does. Otherwise there are probably police stations or gun stores or what have you (that may or may not have been looted) but since I feel he's the most 'OP' when it comes to combat, starting him off with less resources makes more sense to me.

So, on his stealth, his usual MO is Grey-Man style "face in a crowd" stealth, not "bury myself in the floorboards and wait five hours for you to walk by" hard stealth like Rambo. Further, the armor was specifically noted to be a problem for him, which was why he was upgraded with armor piercing weapons. Raiding a police station or gun store means more lost time, more slow, low ammunition movement through the streets, while he's passed by Jason and Batman. He can probably manage this, it's just going to take him a long time because he's going to have to go way out of his way for resources while Jason starts with all the resources he needs, and can focus 100% on routing towards the objective.

I know Rambo definitely turtled up in the latest Rambo film and there were cases of him springing ambushes in the previous movies against his pursuers, but he's been shown to be rather mobile as well such as in the last halves of Rambo III and Rambo IV and in both cases was escorting someone else.

While turtling up is perfectly fine... the goal here is still extricating themselves safely from the situation as quickly as possible. While it's not hardcoded into their brains or anything, all of the protagonists will feel a very pressing need to leave the city before it's too late because waiting too long would be very bad (ie infection spreads too fast, no evacuation if you wait too long, the city will be nuked/carpet bombed, Nemesis music will start playing and Tyrant style mutants show up etc).

It's also the entire plot of Rambo 1, he's beaten by the police, freaks out, and buries himself in the woods. More police come, he digs in deeper, the National guard comes in, he digs in deeper, going to ground is his first instinct, not the only thing he does, he goes on the offensive in the films, but it's going to be his first response when faced with a large, complex threat.


Unless there is a specific timer they're given, this is what I'd predict for time, with the caveat that -any- of the players here could very easily die due to pure bad luck, i.e., combat isnt consistent, even John Wick could be shot by an average man who gets him in a bad situation by chance.

Batman would make it out in a few hours. Either he dies or clears, but in either case his rate of movement is too high for anything else.
Jason in a couple of days, mostly because theres a limit to how far the girl could walk in one go.
Wick in one or more days more than that due to re-routing, up to a week.
Rambo at least a week. He's not even going to move for the first 24 hours, probably. More likely he'd hunker down in the store the whole first day making traps and weapons, then observe the zombies for at least a full day, then try to plan a route carefully, before he even thought of moving out.

 

[Husky_Khan]

You don't need thousands of Demons to saturate an area. Most metropolitan areas don't have the supermassive skylines like you'd see in Manhattan. And Demons tend to attack in areas where they have clear lines of attack and typically would avoid mutant (or in this case zombie) infested roads. And since they make their perches in top buildings and there's nothing else to hunt, Batman would be a convenient target if he chooses to attain heights as his basis for movement. Demons wouldn't be harassing the others because they are in a target rich environment. And since smell and sound and potentially some sort of sonar (unconfirmed) is their preferred method of tracking prey, a lot of Batman's stealth will be mitigated, especially if he's carrying someone with him while grappling and gliding. He'd be the only target in a low target environment above the rooftops. Carrying someone whilst going through the air would be far more difficult then walking/running or driving with someone on the ground.

Plus (as you seemed to recognize with your clear or die statement in regards to Batman) since he's so heavily dependent on the grapple gun/wingsuit, if he loses that he would certainly be in a fair bit of a pickle.

Blue Volatiles meanwhile can "see" through most camouflage since they are night predators and are pretty fast and strong and while Batman could evade them with his grapples, at distance they can still spit acid at you or your escort. I haven't played/seen the game enough to recall if they are are encountered alongside other undead masses. I'd have to look into it. Though I was assuming they were more solitary... but I could be confusing it with one of the other special undead.

Lickers meanwhile typically are encountered by their lonesomes or with their own kind and away from masses of other infected/undead. And the fact they are capable of incredibly fast climbing/crawling (in that they can climb as fast as other brief can jog or maaaaaybe run) combined with their leaping abilities and general durability/silence and whatnot means being above the rooftops would still be a dangerous thing. Sticking above the rooftops could very likely mean a disproportionate number of encounters with Lickers since they too would be away from the masses of undead on the ground... though not to that extent that the packs of Demons would.

But yes, the other characters could still encounter Demons in relatively open areas, or Lickers in isolated interiors/alleys/tunnels or Tanks wherever. And Dogs and Kill Teams as other threats. Not sure how much a threat the Kill Teams would be to Batman encounter level wise (though if they have helicopters or set up on rooftops for vantage points I suppose it'd be more pernicious) but it might affect the others disproportionately, especially if their location is detected and they remain in place or what have you.

The reason I chose most of those special undead (besides Tanks) was so that it'd be more of a miniboss fight or things to avoid like they are shown to be in their respective games and again, they'd impair some characters more then others.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

You don't need thousands of Demons to saturate an area.

Yes you would. Tens of thousands, unless the hand of god is placing Demons in his way, he'd be sneaking along a tiny percentage of buildings, and they'd be spread out evenly, meaning the number he could theoretically encounter would be rather low unless they were on every other building in the city.

And Demons tend to attack in areas where they have clear lines of attack

So almost nowhere in a burning city.

And since they make their perches in top buildings and there's nothing else to hunt, Batman would be a convenient target if he chooses to attain heights as his basis for movement.

A convenient hidden target moving fast cover to cover for an extremely small number of Demons.

Demons wouldn't be harassing the others because they are in a target rich environment.

Do you even hear yourself? The Demons wouldn't be attacking them because they'd be bogged down by the much, much denser obstacles they have to deal with? This is supposed to suggest the people on the ground would be moving faster?

And since smell and sound and potentially some sort of sonar (unconfirmed) is their preferred method of tracking prey, a lot of Batman's stealth will be mitigated

If it's unconfirmed I don't really care about it. But in any case, Neither Smell nor Sonar would be fantastic for locating an individual at significant range on the uneven, heating unit laden modern urban rooftop, in the middle of a burning city full of screaming people and gunfire.

a lot of Batman's stealth will be mitigated, especially if he's carrying someone with him while grappling and gliding.

No more than anyone else's.

Plus (as you seemed to recognize with your clear or die statement in regards to Batman) since he's so heavily dependent on the grapple gun/wingsuit, if he loses that he would certainly be in a fair bit of a pickle.

The wingsuit is actually somewhat secondary to the Grappler, the only thing it does is increase his rate of traversal further.

Blue Volatiles meanwhile can "see" through most camouflage since they are night predators

I have no idea how that's supposed to follow logically, camouflage works totally fine on night predators, did you mean to mention some kind of supernatural ability they had or infrared vision or something?

Blue Volatiles meanwhile can "see" through most camouflage since they are night predators and are pretty fast and strong and while Batman could evade them with his grapples, at distance they can still spit acid at you or your escort. I haven't played/seen the game enough to recall if they are are encountered alongside other undead masses. I'd have to look into it. Though I was assuming they were more solitary... but I could be confusing it with one of the other special undead.

Unless they're prone to gathering on rooftops, they're not going to know he's there, and if they notice him, he'll be to the next building before their six brain cells formulate a response.

Lickers meanwhile typically are encountered by their lonesomes or with their own kind and away from masses of other infected/undead. And the fact they are capable of incredibly fast climbing/crawling (in that they can climb as fast as other brief can jog or maaaaaybe run) combined with their leaping abilities and general durability/silence and whatnot means being above the rooftops would still be a dangerous thing. Sticking above the rooftops could very likely mean a disproportionate number of encounters with Lickers since they too would be away from the masses of undead on the ground... though not to that extent that the packs of Demons would.

I cant think of a single part of the franchise where a Licker waited on the rooftops of a building for prey. They like to attack from close range out of hiding, so I dont see anything likely about your scenario. Lickers that notice batman (the significant minority of the small number he MIGHT encounter) above might scamper after him, which is no different than anyone else, considering they'd be looking for prey on the ground, not the sky, wherever they were lurking.

He'd be the only target in a low target environment above the rooftops

He'd be the only (hidden) target in an (enormous) area for a (vastly smaller) pool of enemies, yes.

But yes, the other characters could still encounter Demons in relatively open areas, or Lickers in isolated interiors/alleys/tunnels or Tanks wherever. And Dogs and Kill Teams as other threats. Not sure how much a threat the Kill Teams would be to Batman encounter level wise (though if they have helicopters or set up on rooftops for vantage points I suppose it'd be more pernicious) but it might affect the others disproportionately, especially if their location is detected and they remain in place or what have you.

It is very unlikely that any of the men here would even meet a "kill team" in an entire city, and wether from Helicopter or ground Batman is the one they are least likely to spot against the terrain, being an uneven, dark object moving amongst miles and miles of uneven, dark shapes.

Unless you literally fiat kill teams directly into their path, or there are literal legions of them throughout the city, the odds that one of a hundred infantry squads in an entire city would run across an individual on a random course purely by chance are astronomical.

Carrying someone whilst going through the air would be far more difficult then walking/running or driving with someone on the ground.

Driving is a non starter, and carrying someone rooftop to rooftop is something we know Batman can do, so the difficulty is irrelevant. Only the speed is relevant, and the speed is at minimum an order of magnitude higher for building hopping than for street to street stealth and fighting.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Most downtown areas of metropolitan areas tend to be rather small, so thousands of demons wouldn't be required.

Spoiler: Skylines

Houston

Boston

Detroit

Minneapolis

Phoenix

Most of the downtown areas don't consist of more then a score of buildings which could be considered skyscrapers and wouldn't need thousands of demons to cover them. And the city itself isn't 'burning.' I don't recall stating the city was on fire... though there might be buildings or localized fires. In regards to clear areas, heating units on rooftops probably won't be much impediment since they can fly through windows and holes in the ground and around rubble strewn Moscow and post apocalyptic Russia more or less fine. When I meant clearings I didn't mean soccer field level flatness or anything like that... but the inference of a 'clearing' where there could actually be trashcans or rubble or trees or bushes or the like. But not loads of zombies or townhomes and other urban in-fill.

So other clearings could be, along with the sides of buildings, most modestly large rooftops, parking ramps, freeways/roads/bikelanes that are free of traffic or significant numbers of undead, parks, railyards, stadiums, fields, various other underdeveloped lots, waterways, stockyards, parking lots in less populated areas. Stuff like that.

In regards to Blue Volatiles negating camouflage, that's what happens in game and in lore as far as I know. The mechanism for it being so isn't explained in game but since I brought it up after the Demons the inference as to how they get past optical based camouflage wasn't that it was magical but merely not stated in the lore but there are potential alternatives... like there are with Demons. Regardless they're fairly effective night predators and darkness and camouflage aren't very effective in negating their detection/senses, whatever they use. Also Volatiles aren't exactly lacking in reaction speed due to lack of intelligence. They probably have a predatory animal level of intelligence as opposed to your typical 'dumb' zombie. And Batman depending on speed across rooftop to rooftop would be mitigated by physically carrying an individual.

As for Lickers, they did operate outside in Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City, often by spilling in from holes or windows in the ceiling and the like from the outside. I can't recall them being encountered besides within Resident Evil 2 and its many spinoffs, most of which I haven't played, as well as Resident Evil 5 but considering their nests tend to be away from hordes of undead and they tend to climb on walls and ceilings, I don't see any reason to preclude them from being outside, since they have operated outside in some of the media already like in Resident Evil: Damnation and the lickers operating outside in Resident Evil: Retribution as well. So having them encountered in paths where hordes of Zombies aren't seeking living prey in a city overrun with the infrected/undead makes sense to me and again the reason they were placed was as an impediment to that sort of unconventional route of traveling. The guys taking traditional paths would encounter more zombies and infected while those that engage in other paths would encounter other special infected more likely or Kill Teams.

As for thread fiat, I'm down with making it as convenient as can be to foment interesting conversation for as long as possible. If the chances of them encounter a kill team are small, then sure, feel free to consider an option where they are being more actively hunted in addition to when you think it'd be unlikely. I'd love to see those variables discussed and explored just like I would in a Demon heavy city... or a city where Lickers may or may not congregate outdoors. It's all good to me. I love discussing this kind of stuff as long as it's not being needlessly contrarian or negative.