Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Chuck Wendig? He posed himself with an axe and beard to look cool but he's a hack with fart humour.
Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind
- Thread starter Urabrask Revealed
- Start date
f1onagher
Well-known member
I love that second to the last scene. Baby Yoda's just like, oh crap shields up.
I have mixed feelings about a number of rumors I've heard about season two, like Ahsoka showing up, but I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully, we can get a little more space western and a little less wacky hijinks.
it is not a rumour, It has been confirmed. She WILL be in it
Certified_Heterosexual
The Falklands are Serbian, you cowards.
You can hate on Disney and EA all you want, but GOLLY GEE lookit these HECKIN WHIZZ-BANG GRAPHICARINOS!
Sorry man, I know you meant well in your post but come the fuck on. What is this, 2005? Nobody's impressed with CGI anymore.
Last edited:
Guncannon
Pessimistic Pilot
Well somebody needs to get laid, what's got your panties in a bunch?
I thought it was a good video too.
To Zachowon Star Wars was never corrupted by Disney. When Disney took over Star Wars, the franchise he knew and grew up with had died and there was nothing left to corrupt. So he's right, from a certain point of view...
A Certain Point Of View?
Did I shutter? Anyways, maybe now Zachowon senses the struggle within Star Wars. Maybe he sees the good in it still. Maybe... it can still be redeemed. Like the saga from the Jedi Archives known as the Redemption of Revan... before they shat on him all over again...
While we're on the subject of fighters, am I the only one who thought the EU narrative of TIE fighters being cheaply made deathtraps never made much sense?
I mean, look at the empire's other iconic bits of military hardware, like the Star Destroyers, AT-ATs, the E-11 Blaster, and of course the Death Star. There's a pretty consistent trend with that gear, in that it might be inefficient and designed to proriritize it's ability to terrorize and intimidate over military effectiveness, but none of it is cheap or disposable. Why would TIEs be different, why would an empire that builds moon sized, planet killing battlestations penny pinch when it comes to its starfighter wings?
Additionally, despite it's allegedly inferior design, TIE fighters consistently trade evenly with rebel forces in the films, even again elite fighter units and ace pilots such as red squadron. Based on history, that's not what happens when veteran pilots flying superior machines engage less trained, less capable enemy forces (given SW's thematic links to WW2, the example of late war US navy pilots and F6F hellcat fighters vs Japanese Zeros comes yo mind).
I mean, look at the empire's other iconic bits of military hardware, like the Star Destroyers, AT-ATs, the E-11 Blaster, and of course the Death Star. There's a pretty consistent trend with that gear, in that it might be inefficient and designed to proriritize it's ability to terrorize and intimidate over military effectiveness, but none of it is cheap or disposable. Why would TIEs be different, why would an empire that builds moon sized, planet killing battlestations penny pinch when it comes to its starfighter wings?
Additionally, despite it's allegedly inferior design, TIE fighters consistently trade evenly with rebel forces in the films, even again elite fighter units and ace pilots such as red squadron. Based on history, that's not what happens when veteran pilots flying superior machines engage less trained, less capable enemy forces (given SW's thematic links to WW2, the example of late war US navy pilots and F6F hellcat fighters vs Japanese Zeros comes yo mind).
Last edited:
f1onagher
Well-known member
Reading between the lines the Empire apparently crunched the numbers and figured out that speed, firepower, and skill won out over conventional shielded fighters. The basic TIE was a top of the line craft until the X-wing came along and displaced it. This leads to the development of the TIE interceptor which is even faster and packs even more firepower. It was ultimately a different priority philosophy. The Alliance prioritized strategic depth and survivability while the Empire prioritized tactical speed and firepower.
There's also the fact that during the Clone Wars many of the fighter formations were led by Jedi while the big ships were captained by regular navy types. That means that after the Jedi were purged there was likely more political capital in the hands of the Big Gun Navy men than the fighter corp so priority would have been shifted toward the capital chip development rather than fighters.
There are a lot of possible explanations, but at the end of the day, the Doyalist explanation is that we needed an excuse for heroes to burn through swarms of fighters that would be a lot chewier if they had shields. That and as you pointed out Lucas aped a lot of stuff from WW2 and picked a Zero vs Warhawk/Wildcat theme for the fighters.
Because it looks damn good?
I am optimistic. I want to see sgar wars return to the glory days, but without the ludicrous BS behind it.
Mandalorian, fallen order, Squadrons seems good.
I like the comics. I like a lot of the new stuff.
I never grew up in a house full of SW fans. I grew into it through a friend. I did not get involed really until disney got it.
Thag is why I am how I am
Maybe, but everyone with access to Unreal engine can do good graphics these days. What matters more now are the gameplay, sound, and story.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
Adding to what @f1onagher wrote, the Empire's supposed doctrine was to use a screen of numerous, fairly cheap fighters instead of a point-defence grid. The thinking, supposedly, was that the fighters are more versatile and can thus be used in more varied ways. So functionally, Star Destroyers are battlecarriers.
Personally, I think that's bonkers, but almost everything about the Empire's military doctrine is...
Bigking321
Well-known member
It plays into the evil of it as well.
Conscription from 10s of thousands of worlds, beating them down into a military machine where "we have reserves" becomes war doctrine and the value of individuals becomes utterly negligible.
Ties are fast and pack a punch. Survivability? Just order more units and have them shipped in. Plenty more where they came from.
Very darkside.
Conscription from 10s of thousands of worlds, beating them down into a military machine where "we have reserves" becomes war doctrine and the value of individuals becomes utterly negligible.
Ties are fast and pack a punch. Survivability? Just order more units and have them shipped in. Plenty more where they came from.
Very darkside.
I always figured the TIE Fighters in ANH were so good because it was Darth Vaders Personal Squadron or whatever. Just an assumption I suppose. But it didn't seem too inconceivable to me he went around with his own better Fighter Squadron.
I'm sure Legends canon supported that in someway anyhow though I can't cite anything offhand.
Plus I mean most Rebel losses to fighters were from the trench attack runs as well.
I'm sure Legends canon supported that in someway anyhow though I can't cite anything offhand.
Plus I mean most Rebel losses to fighters were from the trench attack runs as well.
The story seems like it will be well, and the gameplay as already been shown to be good. It also sounds good from the footage I have seen
Guncannon
Pessimistic Pilot
I remember reading an "art of Star Wars" type book where it hailed the TIE as a well made craft build for speed and firepower, but stipulated that they were piloted by morons. Now it seems it's the reverse where they're highly specialized but with glaring weaknesses and their pilots are well trained professionals?
full disclosure, I'm not very informed on star wars tech. If it's not a mecha, I'm largely going to ignore the specs lol
full disclosure, I'm not very informed on star wars tech. If it's not a mecha, I'm largely going to ignore the specs lol
Last edited:
What do you mean by "reading between the lines", in this context? Because the "lol, tie fighters suck" isn't implied, it's outright stated by people that should understand the "real" rational behind the design.
That's possible, but iffy. I'm sure there were loads of republic fleets without jedi lead fighter groups (there's only so many jedi to go around, not all of them will be great pilots, etc), and given that the emperor's #2 man was one of those hotshot jedi fighter pilots, I suspect that would have created a lot of opposing pressure. Vader likely doesn't care for the lives of imperial pilots in general, but he'll probably want himself and his wingman to have the best ships that they can, and to avoid having the empire's startfighter development capabilities stagnate.
Not really. The only time that really happens is the rogue squadron games, and I think video game players are comfortable with the idea that their PC is uniquely capable of mowing down hordes of baddies without great effort.
Yes, But Zeros vs Wildcats was a contest between unequal planes with different strengths and different tactics. Wildcat pilots could not safely challenge a zero one on one, they needed to work as a team to bring them down.
That's not X-Wings vs TIEs, which are, as far as the film shows, largely equivalent to one another.
If that's true, but why isn't that mindset applied anywhere else? Stormtrooper equipment is consistently described as highly effective and expensive. The E11 blaster is a carbine that costs almost as much as a full sized blaster rifle, and if it wasn't for economies of scale, it probably would cost more, and Stormtrooper armor is packed with high tech sensors and comms gear. Even the AT-ST, goofy as it looks, is still effectively immune to small arms fire and needs to be targeted by dedicated anti-armor weapons to destroy it, and it's just a scout unit. And if there's one thing the stereotypical big gun battleship obsessed admirals that we're assuming run imperial procurement hate spending money on more than fighter pilots, it's ground pounders.
Also, I'd point out that "we don't care about survivability, we can replace losses" is only true on a strategic level. It doesn't matter if a star destroyer captain can eventually replace his destroyed fighter squadron if they're being torn apart right in front on him right now, unable to effectively perform whatever thier intended mission was.
Yes, that's the case.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
Stuff like that used to be all over the place, with a lot of reference material containing blatant contradictions of what was said in other reference material. The "TIEs are cheap and mass-produced" thing has been settled on for a long time, though. They're still fast, though -- just unshielded and devoid of most other improvements regarding pilot safety.
Which of course makes a general commitment to having very well-trained pilots a bit strange. If the whole idea is "strength in numbers", then why invest so much into pilots that will inherently be expendable? Surely you'd just assign your aces to upgraded models...
Bigking321
Well-known member
Of course.
I'm not claiming it was a good strategy in anyway. I'm claiming it's purposefully evil.
Reducing people down to mere numbers and feeding them into a meat grinder. Training and brainwashing them till they just go with it. Families, cultures, civilizations, devoured chewed up and spewed at enemies till they drown.
Totally evil.
If the price is that they lose some battles here and there, have a lower amount of veteran well trained units, and have a much higher resource and manpower cost than their opponents, well that's a price the evil sith lord is willing to pay.
Stupid as all hell though.
Last edited:
Skallagrim
Well-known member
Once again illustrating why an evil wizard whose Dark Side powers are fed by fear, suffering and hate is not a great candidate for Emperor. Organising an efficiently-run state with a complacent and satisfief population disinclined towards rebellion is simply not in line with his purpose: it would diminish the very power that he uses...
I think we're talking past each other. I totally get that the "lol, TIEs are deathtraps" thing is designed to make the empire look evil and callous. I just don't find it a credible explanation because in every other area, even with similar forces like stormtroopers (who should be just as if not more expendable than TIE pilots), the empire does not act like that and instead invests a great deal of time and money into training and equipping its forces. It does not make sense for them to lavishly equip every single element of thier military execpt for the starfight corps, which is instead design to get it's own personal killed and win through attrition.