No...
It can't. Again, the Raddus has special shields, stronger then any ships of its size and smaller. It is the only reason it works.
Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind
- Thread starter Urabrask Revealed
- Start date
It can't. Again, the Raddus has special shields, stronger then any ships of its size and smaller. It is the only reason it works.
Executor crashed into DS II because the bridge got exploded and it was left without controls.
Without control, it got dragged towards the DS II's gravity field. And if you want to argue,
How is everyone not floating around on the DS II then?
Ackbar knew that the modular KDY bridge was poorly defended and ordered his ships to specifically target it.
The shields were basically down when the A wing went through it.
Also, there are two different types of shields in SW.
Particle shields (for physical objects) and ray shields (for lasers and energy weapons).
Particle shields are typically weaker than ray shields, because stuff like concussion missiles and proton torpedoes are expensive and prohibited by the Empire.
HVs-2 hypervelocity gun
The HVs-2 hypervelocity gun, or simply hypervelocity gun, or sometimes referred as an electromagnetic gun, was a fixed planetary defense weapon used against orbiting space-craft such as capital ships by the Galactic Empire during the Galactic Civil War. The hypervelocity gun fired bursts of...
starwars.fandom.com
"The gun's slugs would penetrate a ship's ray shielding and quickly batter down its particle shields intended to absorb slower and fewer impacts. Once a ship's shields were down, the slugs would batter its armor, eventually rupturing its hull and causing depressurization."
Sounds like a certain fried ice cream cone out of the Maw Installation that came with special armor, stronger than any ship of its size and smaller.
Okay, how much of that info were we given in the movie compared to extra media?Executor crashed into DS II because the bridge got exploded and it was left without controls.
Without control, it got dragged towards the DS II's gravity field. And if you want to argue,
How is everyone not floating around on the DS II then?
Ackbar knew that the modular KDY bridge was poorly defended and ordered his ships to specifically target it.
The shields were basically down when the A wing went through it.
Also, there are two different types of shields in SW.
Particle shields (for physical objects) and ray shields (for lasers and energy weapons).
Particle shields are typically weaker than ray shields, because stuff like concussion missiles and proton torpedoes are expensive and prohibited by the Empire.
HVs-2 hypervelocity gun
The HVs-2 hypervelocity gun, or simply hypervelocity gun, or sometimes referred as an electromagnetic gun, was a fixed planetary defense weapon used against orbiting space-craft such as capital ships by the Galactic Empire during the Galactic Civil War. The hypervelocity gun fired bursts of...
"The gun's slugs would penetrate a ship's ray shielding and quickly batter down its particle shields intended to absorb slower and fewer impacts. Once a ship's shields were down, the slugs would batter its armor, eventually rupturing its hull and causing depressurization."
Sounds like a certain fried ice cream cone out of the Maw Installation that came with special armor, stronger than any ship of its size and smaller.
That was the point I was arguing.
Why is the desthstars gravity heavier then a fucking planet? Why can debris float around it so easily and not crash into it?
AspblastUSA
Well-known member
I'll take a different tact on the SSD situation. Sure, it doesn't make sense if you take a movie-only route; or at least it is very iffy. However! the precedent set by Star Destroyers ramming things when disabled is significantly less destructive to one of the big aesthetic draws of the setting than the Holdo maneuver. Even taking movie canon only I can't think of another moment where I could point at the screen and say "but why didn't they kamikaze the bridge?"
The holdo maneuver on the other hand? Death Star - Why didn't they hyper-ram the DS1? Battle of Hoth - Why didn't they hyper-ram the Executor? Battle of Endor? Why didn't they hyper-ram the DS2? If the shields were too strong why not the planetary surface? If that didn't work why not the interdictors to escape? Phantom menace: Even a single N1 could have blasted a gaping hole in the trade federation blockade. Hell! Everyone was talking about how high risk and unlikely taking down Starkiller was, why not hyper-ram the thermal oscillator? You even have the very same Raddus there for that!
The holdo maneuver on the other hand? Death Star - Why didn't they hyper-ram the DS1? Battle of Hoth - Why didn't they hyper-ram the Executor? Battle of Endor? Why didn't they hyper-ram the DS2? If the shields were too strong why not the planetary surface? If that didn't work why not the interdictors to escape? Phantom menace: Even a single N1 could have blasted a gaping hole in the trade federation blockade. Hell! Everyone was talking about how high risk and unlikely taking down Starkiller was, why not hyper-ram the thermal oscillator? You even have the very same Raddus there for that!
LindyAF
Well-known member
Uh, yeah. The explanation for how all that stuff happened *should* be... they can just do that? Small ships hitting critical stuff being able to take out big ships is how the OT just works, it's central to the plot in 2 movies. It doesn't need a special explanation.
Star Wars space combat is basically WW2 naval combat, big ships are ships, starfighters are planes. Planes can kill ships.
If some writer decided that it's actually because some imperial captain accidentally put his coffee cup down on off button for the shields then yes, that is really, really dumb.
I do not remeber them explaining how Y wings could destroy the shield generators, why the A wing did that damage, why there was no backup bridge, which iirc was something brought up in the novelization.
The point I am making is a lot of info we are ever given on things besides being shown something is in the books.
The amount of plot holes left in the OT are huge but ignored
LindyAF
Well-known member
Why do nobody put special shields on any other ship? What benefit does the Raddus get out of them? Why didn't they stop the bombing run on the bridge of the Raddus?
Like, do you really think that in the writing room "the Raddus has special shields" is something that they decided on ahead of time and were aware of while writing the movie - even if they decided on it when they decided they wanted the kamikaze scene?
If they'd included any line in the movie to mention that the Raddus had much stronger shields than normal or idk being built to "ram through asteroids in hyperspace" or something, then I'd say sure, fine.
Those aren't plot holes, is my point. But yeah, any plot hole in the OT that was "fixed" in the novelization is still a plot hole (and the novelization explanation is probably bad).
Because the shield tech was only a prototype and to big to fit on an X wing.
The Rebel transport was too tiny, hadn't yet accelerated to hyperspace, and if you look really closely, you see that the Devastator actually shattered it with main battery turbolaser fire just before it impacted the shield.
The so-called Holdo Maneuver required sacrificing the largest and most powerful Mon Cal cruiser ever made, one with even more exceptionally heavy and durable shielding than Mon Cals were famous for having. Under any other circumstances, that ship would have been strategically vital and sacrificing her a complete non-starter. In addition, the hyperspace ram visibly only took out the entire First Order pursuit fleet because they were closely clustered together and the debris from the Supremacy shotgunned the rest of the fleet, something that wouldn't have happened if the First Order was actually spread out in a proper battle formation.
The success of the maneuver is therefore due to a combination of the Resistance being desperate enough to sacrifice their best (and at that point only) cruiser in a suicide move, and the First Order being arrogant enough that they were tightly clustered and possibly didn't even have their shields up. And before dismissing that as a convenient act of plot stupidity, keep in mind that the Resistance fleet they've been chasing for days isn't even shooting back, and it was established all the way back in The Empire Strikes Back that Star Destroyers do not keep their shields up all the time. Captain Needa explicitly ordered Avenger's shields raised only when the Millennium Falcon turned around and made an attack pass.
Also -- if you accept the old EU canon alongside the Disney canon, three ISDs hyperspace ramming the Executor were stopped cold by her shields, although it did temporarily overload the shields and prevent Executor from immediately engaging and wiping out a fleeing Rebel force.
The success of the maneuver is therefore due to a combination of the Resistance being desperate enough to sacrifice their best (and at that point only) cruiser in a suicide move, and the First Order being arrogant enough that they were tightly clustered and possibly didn't even have their shields up. And before dismissing that as a convenient act of plot stupidity, keep in mind that the Resistance fleet they've been chasing for days isn't even shooting back, and it was established all the way back in The Empire Strikes Back that Star Destroyers do not keep their shields up all the time. Captain Needa explicitly ordered Avenger's shields raised only when the Millennium Falcon turned around and made an attack pass.
Also -- if you accept the old EU canon alongside the Disney canon, three ISDs hyperspace ramming the Executor were stopped cold by her shields, although it did temporarily overload the shields and prevent Executor from immediately engaging and wiping out a fleeing Rebel force.
Last edited:
ShadowsOfParadox
Well-known member
Star Wars has a history of weird prototype systems... but there's always a specific reason those systems don't proliferate(stealth needs Stygium Crystals which are super rare and limited for example). So since there's apparently nothing here welp, I guess next trilogy is gonna have to be about rocket tag in SPAAAAACE.
Once, in one comic. There's a reason no one ever even hinted at it being a vague possibility again. And the best part of the EU was that it's canon was mostly modular, you could pick and choose which parts actually made sense and people did that all the time.
Here's the central problem.
No it's not.
Why isn't it? Because Space Dust. The reason Sci-Fi so often has FTL happen in another dimension or somehow out of phase with reality or "not actually FTL" is because trying to move through "Empty Space" at FTL speeds would get you a Fusion Fastball. And even just one particle every few feet becomes lethal when you are moving FTL. So either ships entering Hyperspace don't actually interact with actual physics and therefore can't ram, or they do and therefore every Hyperspace entry and exit(and potentially travel) should be marked by a massive boom.
Star Wars had one Unicorn. It was the Force, every other bit of the setting was "This is Sci-Fi" trappings. That's why in the movies we got told all of "You can't Hyperspace in a Gravity Well" and no one bothers to explain Laser Swords or Blasters or Shields or Repulsor Systems. The Starkiller Base makes the Mechanics of Hyperspace relevant again by asking "How much of a Gravity Well is needed to not Hyperspace again? How are they shooting through Hyperspace?" Then the Holdo Maneuver does the same but without the bit of safety provided by "It's a former planet turned Better Death Star". Now Hyperspace is suddenly "Unicorn Number 2", and it doesn't stack up to the Force because the writers didn't actually think through "What does Hyperspace being Unicorn Number 2 actually do?". For that matter, a bunch of the problems with Rey boil down to "The Writers don't get that The Force is The Unicorn and you really need to stick to the established rules or have a damn good explanation".
That's fine. One of the other ships could've hyperspace rammed the ISD into oblivion. I'm just making an amusing point with the iconic transport considering how it got kersploded.
And it can't be that small. The Holdo Maneuver obliterated the whole fleet by just ramming the big ship and somehow the resulting shrapnel took out dozens of other Capitol ships around it.
The sheer amount of cope is impressive. Somehow this is the only time this ever happened in the tens of thousands of years of warfare despite seeming rather practical and effective.
Alright. Hyperspace is technically not in the physical world but is. You are moving so fast you are basically in your own bubble in space. Planets cause gravity that can pull one out if too close, or depending on the planet.
What happend in episode 8, was the fact that the ship did not enter hyperspace yet.. it was accelerating and had just entered when it collided with the supremacy.
the shielding on the ship was holding in the destruction of the ship so the parts where flying at the speed of light or faster.
like a shotgun..
it was still in the physical space there..
i have questions. Why did they not build a second star forge? Mass produce the sun crusher? Mass produce the galaxy gun?
I am just giving the reason for why it happend.
Not like I am trying to make sense of it
ShadowsOfParadox
Well-known member
Again, if true, EVERY TIME ANY SHIP EVER does Hyperspace there should be a blast wave. There isn't.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
The weird thing is, there was no particular need for the Hyperspace ram. Just have Holdo do a normal ram and it would have been just as effective for the story. It could well also have been a much better spectacle to boot, showing the Radditz on fire, bits of it breaking off as it tries to close and draws fire from every ship at once (which of course takes heat off the transports), Holdo holding on as the bridge fills with smoke and trying to keep the ship on course even though the controls she's using are actually on fire, etc.
If we fo by your point, anything unshielded would never be able to fly I'm space because they would be hitting space dust at insane speeds....
Also, ships exist hyperspace in real space and slow down after the fact once they fully exit.
So my space fantasy can't have things that don't male sense.....
I think the spectacle was better with the sudden silence of it.
Haldo wouldn't have gotten close enough to cause any diffrence. They would fire a few guns at the transports while having the rest open fire on the ship, decimating it.
Plus a normal ram would be useless I'm this case. Not enough force.
And I am pretty sure if the supremacy was still intact they could have just bombarded the mountain and made life easier
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Of course a normal ram would be useless, just like an A-Wing would be too small and fragile to get through an SSD's fire and do any damage hitting the bridge.
The A-Wing required massed fire from the entire Rebel fleet to break Executor's shields prior to said ramming, as explicitly laid out by Admiral Ackbar's orders: "We've got to buy those fighters more time. Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer!"
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Yes, but this is a MonCal Cruiser we're talking about. One can't reasonably argue that it wouldn't do enough damage when the A-Wing did, nor that it would be impossible for it to get through enemy fire when the A-Wing did.