Star Trek Star Trek Starship Captain Showdown

[The Original Sixth]

This is in the Red Corner's favor.

Enterprise D isn't especially good at combat but it's the closest thing there is to a Federation Battleship. The Defiant is a tough, strong little ship but I don't give it good odds against a well captained Galaxy class, and the Enterprise D has had various improvements and tinkering by Geordie over the show.

Couple that with the Voyager, thing has improvements by a !FUTURE! Borg, various other tinkering, it took on a god damned tactical Borg Cube at one point.

The Enterprise B might not survive the initial salvos at all, it's an older ship and up against the largest Federation ship and one of the most modern.

Quantum torpedoes range from 'basically photons' to 'ten times the power!' depending on the scene and film, Sisko's best chance is a full salvo of everything he has on the Enterprise D's bridge or warp chamber. Otherwise he's just going to get obliterated with a huge amount of phaser arrays.

Actually, as far as the GCS is concerned, it is consistently portrayed as being a powerful ship. It would be more accurate to say that the ship is not optimized for combat. We can see that in the design theory that obviously went into the GCS, the role of the GCS within the franchise, and the design information that we get from the technical manual.

Design theory, the TM and the show clearly indicates that the GCS was intent on being an explorer ship, complete with scientific and diplomatic facilities. Even more telling was that families were allowed onboard, complete with daycare and school facilities with children. There was even room set aside for a dolphin tank, referenced both in the TM and later as a one-off comment in the show.

Within the show, the GCS is consistently referred to as a capable starship. During the alternative setting where the Federation and the Klingons are at war, the GCS was indicated to be a capable warship with very few differences from what we saw in the prime timeline. It was also able to take on three warships long enough for the Enterprise C to return to its original point in the timeline, thus restoring it (Yesterday's Enterprise). The Duras Sisters were furious with the idea of trying to take on a Galaxy Class Starship until presented with a means of bypassing the Enterprise D's shield--at which point they were able to inflict heavy damage (ST: Generations).

Finally, looking at the TNG TM, we know that the Enterprise D's shield generators are indicated to be top-notch in the setting (TNG TM: Shields). We also know that the Enterprise D's photon torpedo launcher is burst ten (TNG TM: Weapons). The burst ten-launcher is devastatingly powerful for an alpha-strike and follow-up attacks would be about 4 torpedoes for a quick reload (TNG TM: Weapons). Very few ships in the setting can actually match that sort of firepower.

Here's the thing: a Galaxy-class from around when TNG ended was shown to be completely helpless when faced with three Dominion fighters not much larger than a runabout.

The Defiant-class starships are purpose-built warships. The others are not.

In regards to the Odyssey being destroyed by three Dominion Fighters. First, Dominion Fighters are more like gunboats than actual fighters, even if that's their operational role. Second, the Odyssey was not there to destroy the fighters as quickly as possible. Rather, the captain was no doubt trying to reduce the blowout of an interstellar incident against a great power that the Federation had little to no information about. Against an opponent who was a tactical unknown. On top of that, the phased polaron beams made that difficult. Even so, that wasn't enough to actually defeat the Odyssey. It had suffered some damage but was capable of limping back home. Nor did the three fighters force an attack upon the Odyssey. Rather, one was chosen to make a suicide run. The obvious message was the Dominion's resolve in defending what it perceived as its territory.

Finally, in regards to the Defiant, while its space is purely dedicated as a weapon's platform, you also need to look at what it's actually carrying. It has two forward quantum torpedo launchers, one after photon torpedo launcher, four forward pulse phaser banks, and one or two minor phaser banks here and there for overall cover. Even if we were to link those pulse phaser banks as being on-par with a Romulan Warbird's pulse disruptors (1 GW), the fact is that the Defiant simply lacks the firepower and range to compete with a GCS that is going all-out. The Defiant could probably inflict a bloody nose, but the GCS could just drop a burst of ten photon torpedoes and there's very little that the Defiant could actually do to survive. Even if it managed that, it would probably be too crippled to carry on the fight.

Even if we're generous and assume that the Defiant's quantum torpedoes manage to KO the GCS, it's a fight between an Excelsior class and an Intrepid class. For an upgraded Excelsior, that's probably an even fight, but the Intrepid has a more effective shield grid, more advanced sensors, greater maneuverability, more advanced torpedoes, and much faster computers. The advantage probably tips in favor the Intrepid, even if the Excelsior were fully upgraded.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Actually, as far as the GCS is concerned, it is consistently portrayed as being a powerful ship. It would be more accurate to say that the ship is not optimized for combat. We can see that in the design theory that obviously went into the GCS, the role of the GCS within the franchise, and the design information that we get from the technical manual.

Design theory, the TM and the show clearly indicates that the GCS was intent on being an explorer ship, complete with scientific and diplomatic facilities. Even more telling was that families were allowed onboard, complete with daycare and school facilities with children. There was even room set aside for a dolphin tank, referenced both in the TM and later as a one-off comment in the show.

Within the show, the GCS is consistently referred to as a capable starship. During the alternative setting where the Federation and the Klingons are at war, the GCS was indicated to be a capable warship with very few differences from what we saw in the prime timeline. It was also able to take on three warships long enough for the Enterprise C to return to its original point in the timeline, thus restoring it (Yesterday's Enterprise). The Duras Sisters were furious with the idea of trying to take on a Galaxy Class Starship until presented with a means of bypassing the Enterprise D's shield--at which point they were able to inflict heavy damage (ST: Generations).

Finally, looking at the TNG TM, we know that the Enterprise D's shield generators are indicated to be top-notch in the setting (TNG TM: Shields). We also know that the Enterprise D's photon torpedo launcher is burst ten (TNG TM: Weapons). The burst ten-launcher is devastatingly powerful for an alpha-strike and follow-up attacks would be about 4 torpedoes for a quick reload (TNG TM: Weapons). Very few ships in the setting can actually match that sort of firepower.

The Galaxy class is of course a powerful warship, multiple alien species basically treat it as a dreadnought.
But for it's considerable size, it is not as powerful as it would seem.

The only ship worse in this regard that I can think of is the Romulan Warbird, it has 4-5 times the volume of the Galaxy Class (it's bigger than Deep Space 9 IIRC), but is considered to be about as powerful as the Enterprise D.

For example the Galaxy class has an impressive loadout of 12 or so Phaser arrays, and a couple of torpedo launchers. Her shields are immense due to a massive reactor but actual weapon output is...Not so impressive.

The humble little defiant has 4 phaser cannons of considerable power, a couple phaser arrays, and more than triple the torpedo tubes (including quantum tubes!). 1 v 1 is still in favor of the Galaxy class, but you can afford like 20 Defiants per Galaxy class so that's hardly a fair fight.

The 'not actually a warship' Voyager also has about the same firepower, or even MORE than a normal Galaxy class vessel despite it's smaller size.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Question will the Enterprise B get a Lakota style upgrade for fairness sake? Because it is you know 7 decades behind the Enterprise D and Voyager.

It gets the best refit the Enterprise-B had. The Excelsior had a solid service life without even considering the unknowns of the alleged Lakota refit. Plus I feel it balances the thread better.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

The burst ten-launcher is devastatingly powerful for an alpha-strike and follow-up attacks would be about 4 torpedoes for a quick reload (TNG TM: Weapons). Very few ships in the setting can actually match that sort of firepower.

A salvo of ten torpedoes would be devastating but unfortunately the Enterprise-D, likely the second least maneuverable ship here, is unlikely to land most if any of that against Sisko while in turn the Defiant is maneuverable enough it likely could effectively use its forward and aft weapons against the far larger ship.

Further Memory Alpha states the Defiant has four forward launchers and two aft torpedo launchers rather than just three. Looking at "For the Uniform", DS9 season 5, we do indeed hear Worf requesting torpedoes 3-4 status be checked while in pursuit of the Maquis Raider.

Defiant class

I think you're going to be surprised at how big a punch this little ship has.Kira Nerys to Riker The Defiant-class battleship, officially an escort vessel, began development in 2366 as a small, highly powered, heavily armed warship intended to defend the United Federation of Planets against the...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

Even if we were to link those pulse phaser banks as being on-par with a Romulan Warbird's pulse disruptors (1 GW), the fact is that the Defiant simply lacks the firepower and range to compete with a GCS that is going all-out.

I would hope the Defiant phasers could match the NX's 80-500 GJ phase cannons or the 4.2 GW's of a small phaser bank. Further considering she more than held her own against the Lakota, itself upgraded to have a "lot of firepower for an Excelsior-class ship", in a pure phaser fight the Defiant likely can dish it out as hard as the GCS can if, perhaps, not as long due to being physically smaller with smaller stores of anti-matter to draw upon. But it's unlikely for the fight to drag on long enough for that to be a deciding factor.

Even if we're generous and assume that the Defiant's quantum torpedoes manage to KO the GCS, it's a fight between an Excelsior class and an Intrepid class. For an upgraded Excelsior, that's probably an even fight, but the Intrepid has a more effective shield grid, more advanced sensors, greater maneuverability, more advanced torpedoes, and much faster computers. The advantage probably tips in favor the Intrepid, even if the Excelsior were fully upgraded.

Like I said, the Intrepid is more advanced but its a smaller ship. Per Memory Alpha the Intrepid is 344 meters while the Excelsior is over 500 hundred meters and unlike the Defiant it doesn't seem to be maximized for combat. It certainly has fewer torpedoes that, other than maybe yield, are little changed from what the Enterprise-B uses. The Enterprise-B may actually have *more* forward torpedo launchers since memory alpha makes mention of "several" and talks about two primary around the deflector dish and "upper forward launchers" on the neck while Voyager apparently only has 2 forward, 2 aft and a ventral launcher.

All in all, in a one on one fight I'd lean towards Kirk taking this.

 

[The Original Sixth]

The Galaxy class is of course a powerful warship, multiple alien species basically treat it as a dreadnought.
But for it's considerable size, it is not as powerful as it would seem.

The GCS's only "wasted space" comes from the saucer section. It does provide the ship with greater impulse power and the dorsal and ventral arrays are much more powerful compared to the smaller medium arrays on the engineering section.

The only ship worse in this regard that I can think of is the Romulan Warbird, it has 4-5 times the volume of the Galaxy Class (it's bigger than Deep Space 9 IIRC), but is considered to be about as powerful as the Enterprise D.

The Romulan Warbird actually wastes more space, because it's literally empty space. That may be a design compromise, based upon perhaps cloaking technology or warp fields or even the quantum singularity that the Romulans use to power their ships. The Romulan Warbird does have incredibly powerful weapons though; its disruptors are rated at 20 GWs.

For example the Galaxy class has an impressive loadout of 12 or so Phaser arrays, and a couple of torpedo launchers. Her shields are immense due to a massive reactor but actual weapon output is...Not so impressive.

How so? Honestly, a 1 GW energy weapon is pretty fucking powerful. That's enough to drill its way through 6.61 meters of armored steel every second. That's before you account for the NDF effect. The whole idea of ships tossing around gigatons or megatons directly act each other is really something invented by debate sites, not something that comes from a real scientific approach. Most actual starships are probably going to be on the size of modern naval ships and their weapon capabilities are going to be similar.

The humble little defiant has 4 phaser cannons of considerable power, a couple phaser arrays, and more than triple the torpedo tubes (including quantum tubes!). 1 v 1 is still in favor of the Galaxy class, but you can afford like 20 Defiants per Galaxy class so that's hardly a fair fight.

I mean, considering that the BoP, the closest ship to the Defiant's size has pulse cannons in the range of about 36 MWs, for four cannons that's 144 MWs. That's pretty good, considering that if you just look at the engineering section, the GCS's largest arrays would be the ventral engineering for 117.3 MWs and the dorsal neck for 178.5 MWs. That allows the Defiant to hit in the same weight class as a heavy cruiser.

It's the GCS's saucer section that has the dorsal 1,020 MW array and the ventral saucer 805.8 MW array.

So the Defiant does pack a punch for its size, but it simply isn't going to carry the same sort of punch that a GCS would carry with its saucer section and it can't match the torpedo output.

The 'not actually a warship' Voyager also has about the same firepower, or even MORE than a normal Galaxy class vessel despite it's smaller size.

Going by the length of its phaser arrays, the port and dorsal saucer arrays on Voyager would each be 142.8 MWs. Or 285.6 MWs. That firepower is roughly on par with a Defiant's pulse cannons, which is about what I'd expect and that's about the same as the GCS engineering section, but that in no way matches the GCS's 1 GW main array.

 

[The Original Sixth]

A salvo of ten torpedoes would be devastating but unfortunately the Enterprise-D, likely the second least maneuverable ship here, is unlikely to land most if any of that against Sisko wh

That's the wonderful thing about AOE weapons; they don't need a direct hit. Simply blanket the area with torpedo detonations and that's probably more than enough to cripple the Defiant.

ile in turn the Defiant is maneuverable enough it likely could effectively use its forward and aft weapons against the far larger ship.

Further Memory Alpha states the Defiant has four forward launchers and two aft torpedo launchers rather than just three. Looking at "For the Uniform", DS9 season 5, we do indeed hear Worf requesting torpedoes 3-4 status be checked while in pursuit of the Maquis Raider.

Defiant class

I think you're going to be surprised at how big a punch this little ship has.Kira Nerys to Riker The Defiant-class battleship, officially an escort vessel, began development in 2366 as a small, highly powered, heavily armed warship intended to defend the United Federation of Planets against the...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

Or more likely the forward launchers can load two torpedoes at a time for a burst shot.

I would hope the Defiant phasers could match the NX's 80-500 GJ phase cannons or the 4.2 GW's of a small phaser bank. Further considering she more than held her own against the Lakota, itself upgraded to have a "lot of firepower for an Excelsior-class ship", in a pure phaser fight the Defiant likely can dish it out as hard as the GCS can if, perhaps, not as long due to being physically smaller with smaller stores of anti-matter to draw upon. But it's unlikely for the fight to drag on long enough for that to be a deciding factor.

Those figures are really just silly. They're completely at odds with later TNG quotes and the TMs.

Like I said, the Intrepid is more advanced but its a smaller ship. Per Memory Alpha the Intrepid is 344 meters while the Excelsior is over 500 hundred meters and unlike the Defiant it doesn't seem to be maximized for combat. It certainly has fewer torpedoes that, other than maybe yield, are little changed from what the Enterprise-B uses. The Enterprise-B may actually have *more* forward torpedo launchers since memory alpha makes mention of "several" and talks about two primary around the deflector dish and "upper forward launchers" on the neck while Voyager apparently only has 2 forward, 2 aft and a ventral launcher.

All in all, in a one on one fight I'd lean towards Kirk taking this.

No, Kirk wouldn't take this. Because his team is simply poorly equipped for this match-up. An upgraded Excelsior was able to go toe to toe with the Defiant or what looks to be about the sort of firepower that a ship like the Intrepid would have. This isn't an upgraded Excelsior. It's a bog-standard Excelsior, so that probably means its firepower is rather lacking, given what O'Brian said about the upgraded version. Assuming that the older Excelsior's are like, 25% less powerful than something like the Defiant or the Intrepid, that's 106.5 MWs for its phaser banks. Not bad, given how many phaser banks they have, but when one of the enemy is a Galaxy Class, that's not going to cut it.

The GCS has superior phaser firepower, superior coverage to both the Excelsior and the Defiant, and superior torpedo ROF. In addition to that, it has an Intrepid to aid it. And the first thing they're going to do is take out the Defiant. Once the Defiant is out, the Excelsior is going next. There really is no contest here.

 

[The Original Sixth]

It gets the best refit the Enterprise-B had. The Excelsior had a solid service life without even considering the unknowns of the alleged Lakota refit. Plus I feel it balances the thread better.

The Lakota refit would put the Enterprise B on about the same level as the Intrepid or the Defiant. The GCS would still greatly outclass both ships. This would be an even fight if it were the Enterprise B and the Defiant vs the Enterprise D, but them and against Voyager? No way.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

The Romulan Warbird actually wastes more space, because it's literally empty space. That may be a design compromise, based upon perhaps cloaking technology or warp fields or even the quantum singularity that the Romulans use to power their ships. The Romulan Warbird does have incredibly powerful weapons though; its disruptors are rated at 20 GWs.

No I really mean that when you scan a 3d model of the Warbird, even accounting for empty space, it's 4 times the mass of the Galaxy class for minimal if any greater power in combat.

To make an analogy, this is like the Chinese making a four hundred thousand ton ultra-carrier which provides no greater combat usefulness as the modern super carriers.

Or the Russians making a 280 ton mega-tank which has no greater abilities than the Abrams.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

That's the wonderful thing about AOE weapons; they don't need a direct hit. Simply blanket the area with torpedo detonations and that's probably more than enough to cripple the Defiant.

Except we're talking about photon torpedoes which are primarily, if not almost exclusively, used as direct fire weapons with very little evidence of AoE. Off the top of my head all I can think about is when the Enterprise disabled a Maquis Raider with one such effect but that's a far cry from the Defiant and IIRC was detonated quite close to the ship in question to the point you'd already have to be able to hit the ship to use such an ability making it of limited utility.

Or more likely the forward launchers can load two torpedoes at a time for a burst shot.

What evidence is there that the Defiant only has two launchers? Which episode are you getting this from?

Those figures are really just silly. They're completely at odds with later TNG quotes and the TMs.

Just in TNG we have hand weapons rated in megajoule range, Mind Eye, a variance of 60 GWs being viewed as a very narrow margin (A Matter of Time), even on the lower end of the spectrum we have the Enterprise taking repeated hits from a 400 gigawatts weapon with only moderate damage, The Survivors.

If we can expand to included DS9 we have reference of Cardasian small arms being at least 4.7 megajoules, Return to Grace, and Breen hand weapons designed to penetrate shields to four point six gigajouls, Business as Usual.

So how many actual examples do you have?

An upgraded Excelsior was able to go toe to toe with the Defiant or what looks to be about the sort of firepower that a ship like the Intrepid would have.

I'm going to ask for evidence where an Intrepid was pegged as anything close to the Lakota.

This isn't an upgraded Excelsior. It's a bog-standard Excelsior

Rather it's the Enterprise-B. It likely is a bit behind a "bog-standard" Excelsior of the TNG era.

so that probably means its firepower is rather lacking, given what O'Brian said about the upgraded version

I wouldn't necessarily say that follows for a "Bog-standard" Excelsior, no. O'Brien's statement suggests the Lakota is unusually strong for it's class but beyond that we really can't say much in general. Especially since this is well into the Dominion War and "bog-standard" could mean something quite different than when, for instance, Voyager got lost in the Delta quadrant.

It is certainly stronger than the Enterprise-B but then I've never argued otherwise.

The GCS has superior phaser firepower

I'm going to need to see the episode that states that.

superior torpedo ROF

I'm going to need to see the episode that states that.

superior coverage to both the Excelsior and the Defiant

Considering the Defiant has it's own phaser arrays I'm going to need the episode that states the GCS has superior coverage

No, Kirk wouldn't take this. Because his team is simply poorly equipped for this match-up.

You yourself speculate the Enterprise-B is only around 25% less powerful than the Intrepid. That doesn't seem like an insurmountable gap.

I'd likely lean towards a bigger gap myself. The Enterprise-C wasn't considered obsolete by Riker in "Yesterday's Enterprise" when it was discovered but neither was it anything to write home about. Tasha in particular mentions later how the Enterprise-D's heat dissipation rates were practically double what the Enterprise-C was capable of and that was obviously a far more recent and advanced ship than the Enterprise-B.

I'm mostly banking on it winning due to it's relatively more powerful but less advanced shields nearing parity with the smaller Voyager's and having a bigger, more armored hull coupled with the fact Kirk can almost certainly fly circles around Janeway. I mean when was the last time she used a warp pivot to catch an attacker off guard or successfully played dead to bait an enemy?

And the first thing they're going to do is take out the Defiant

They can try. I find it far more likely that the Defiant and the Enterprise-B will take out the Enterprise-D instead.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Except we're talking about photon torpedoes which are primarily, if not almost exclusively, used as direct fire weapons with very little evidence of AoE. Off the top of my head all I can think about is when the Enterprise disabled a Maquis Raider with one such effect but that's a far cry from the Defiant and IIRC was detonated quite close to the ship in question to the point you'd already have to be able to hit the ship to use such an ability making it of limited utility.

I think there's a few episodes which have moments like "we can't fire torpedoes at this range because we'll destroy ourselves", especially when the shields are weakened/down.

I think most starships can handle an indirect torpedo blast with full shields, but it becomes risky when ships are damaged.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

I think there's a few episodes which have moments like "we can't fire torpedoes at this range because we'll destroy ourselves", especially when the shields are weakened/down.

I think most starships can handle an indirect torpedo blast with full shields, but it becomes risky when ships are damaged.

Well I was more referring to torpedoes being deliberately used as AoE weapons to target/disable foes rather than in examples like "the Nth Degree" where there's a concern over minimum safe distance. I wouldn't disagree there is some AoE with torpedoes, just that it isn't very pronounced and doesn't seem viable in combat under most circumstances.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

In hindsight looking up the specs for the Enterprise B/Excelsior, I think the Voyager has it beat.
5 dual (10 phasers in total) Type 8 Phasers vs 13 phasers, with at least some being Type 10 (galaxy class sized)
4 Photon Torpedo tubes vs 5 Photon Torpedo Tubes (including at least a couple "Tricobalt devices")

Shielding is always wishy-washy in Star Trek but the Voyager is significantly more advanced, with various technobabble upgrades like multiphasic and multispectral shielding. Seeing as it took Borg weapon-fire without being obliterated the Voyager is pretty tough. Maybe the Lakota had upgraded shields but the Enterprise B is using older tech.

I'm not actually sure if the Defiant could take on the Voyager despite the Defiant being a genuine warship, while Voyager got almost obliterated in every second episode of the show, her paper-stats are very impressive.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

In hindsight looking up the specs for the Enterprise B/Excelsior, I think the Voyager has it beat.
5 dual (10 phasers in total) Type 8 Phasers vs 13 phasers, with at least some being Type 10 (galaxy class sized)
4 Photon Torpedo tubes vs 5 Photon Torpedo Tubes (including at least a couple "Tricobalt devices")

Shielding is always wishy-washy in Star Trek but the Voyager is significantly more advanced, with various technobabble upgrades like multiphasic and multispectral shielding. Seeing as it took Borg weapon-fire without being obliterated the Voyager is pretty tough. Maybe the Lakota had upgraded shields but the Enterprise B is using older tech.

I'm not actually sure if the Defiant could take on the Voyager despite the Defiant being a genuine warship, while Voyager got almost obliterated in every second episode of the show, her paper-stats are very impressive.

If you taking this from Memory alpha, an Excelsior class apparently has four forward launchers.

In addition, the Excelsior was equipped with several photon torpedo launchers. The two primary launchers were located in the forward section, on both sides of the deflector dish seen as two dark colored ports ahead of the starfleet hull banners. The upper forward launchers were located on the neck section, also allowing ship access for cargo management units. Aft launchers were located above the main shuttlebay.

While Voyager is apparently equipped with five total launchers.

The Intrepid-class housed five standard torpedo launchers (two fore and two aft, and one on the ventral side of the ship). The USS Voyager was loaded with Type 6 photon torpedoes in 2371. The ship also had class-9 and at least four class-10 photon torpedoes and two tricobalt devices in her torpedo arsenal.

Similarly the Excelsior is equipped with five dual phaser banks on the forward saucer and one dual bank aft. With additional phaser banks positioned laterally.

The original Excelsior design was outfitted with type 8 phaser emitters in five dual phaser bank emplacements on the forward saucer section, and one dual emplacement on the aft of the saucer. Phaser banks were also positioned laterally, located port and starboard, near the point that the primary and secondary hulls meet, as well as one emplacement located between the nacelles.

So the Excelsior likely has comparable if not more phasers than Voyager. Now Voyager almost certainly has better total coverage with it's phasers but depending on where exactly their positioned along it's hull the Enterprise-B might be better at focusing them all at a single target.

Excelsior class

The Excelsior-class was a type of Federation starship used by Starfleet between the late 23rd and late 24th centuries. It was the backbone of Starfleet for over a century, making it one of the most long-serving starship designs and one of the fleet's most recognizable ships. The Excelsior-class...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

Intrepid class

The Intrepid-class starship was a Federation design that entered service in the latter half of the 24th century. The Intrepid-class was designed for long-term exploration missions. At less than half the size of a Galaxy-class starship, it was considered "quick and smart." (VOY: "Someone to Watch...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

If you taking this from Memory alpha, an Excelsior class apparently has four forward launchers.

While Voyager is apparently equipped with five total launchers.

Yeah sorry, my mistake, however one must question how high the rates of fire of both ships are, more launchers=/=higher torpedo output.

Similarly the Excelsior is equipped with five dual phaser banks on the forward saucer and one dual bank aft. With additional phaser banks positioned laterally.

So the Excelsior likely has comparable if not more phasers than Voyager. Now Voyager almost certainly has better total coverage with it's phasers but depending on where exactly their positioned along it's hull the Enterprise-B might be better at focusing them all at a single target.

Type 8 phasers are not at all comparable to Type 10, you need to get to the Sovereign class to get higher output phaser banks.

Type 8's can fit on a small fighter, Type 10's are some 80 years newer, and seem dramatically more powerful due to the ships proportionally having far fewer of them.

The Enterprise D for example only has somewhere between 10-13 (depending on the episode, because Star Trek) Type 10's despite outmassing the Excelsior by around 6 times. Accounting for mass, the Galaxy class can fit something like 60-70 of the Type 8's.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Yeah sorry, my mistake, however one must question how high the rates of fire of both ships are, more launchers=/=higher torpedo output.

Well even if Voyager was twice as fast it still would only able to achieve a parity in torpedo output. And torpedo rate of fire doesn't seem have been massively improved upon since the 23rd century if the Defiant from "In a Mirror Darkly" is any indication.

Type 8 phasers are not at all comparable to Type 10, you need to get to the Sovereign class to get higher output phaser banks.

I meant a comparable number of phasers. The Excelsior has ten forward, 2 aft plus additional ones compared to the 13+ of Voyager.

Type 8's can fit on a small fighter, Type 10's are some 80 years newer, and seem dramatically more powerful due to the ships proportionally having far fewer of them.

Well it really depends on what a Type 8 refers to. Is it akin to a size, ala saying a warship has 16 inch guns, or does it refer merely to a classification like how we might describe both a German me 210 and the Iowa battleship as having "canons". Furthermore it seems likely that a ship's power would likely be the hard limiting factor in how powerful a phaser bank could be.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Well it really depends on what a Type 8 refers to. Is it akin to a size, ala saying a warship has 16 inch guns, or does it refer merely to a classification like how we might describe both a German me 210 and the Iowa battleship as having "canons". Furthermore it seems likely that a ship's power would likely be the hard limiting factor in how powerful a phaser bank could be.

The 'type' refers to the overall weapon part of the phaser, but the emitter is seemingly different based on what it's mounted on.
The standard lineup of TNG ships all use Type 10 phasers, just with the smaller ships having less of them.

If it was more a designation of modernity, the smaller ships would probably just have lots of little phasers (TOS era ships) instead of a few big ones.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

I mean, considering that the BoP, the closest ship to the Defiant's size has pulse cannons in the range of about 36 MWs, for four cannons that's 144 MWs. That's pretty good, considering that if you just look at the engineering section, the GCS's largest arrays would be the ventral engineering for 117.3 MWs and the dorsal neck for 178.5 MWs. That allows the Defiant to hit in the same weight class as a heavy cruiser.

Well the BoP comes in variable sizes ranging from a small scout/raider from ST:III to being comparable in size to a GSC as seen in the episode "The Defector". The raider would be closer in size to the Defiant but I'm not sure if it really fills the same role as the Defiant was intended. Further the BoP is an old design made by a rival power which generally speaking seems to have a less refined, more brute force design in comparison to Starfleet. Basically if the Federation can afford to build a whale like the GCS which is *not optimized* for combat and have it compete against the fare more pure warships of the Klingons then it's likely when they do optimize for combat then their going to be superior pound per pound.