Movies Spiderman No Way Home
- Thread starter Zachowon
- Start date
Just saw the trailer, it felt longer then it was and very epic.
Of course it hit the nostalgia hard since I loved (most) of the previous Spider-man movies and I am actually pleased in seeing Electro again, because I do think there was a lot of potential with Jamie Foxx's version of the character that was completely and utterly wasted in that excretably bloated movie that was Amazing Spider-man 2.
Of course it hit the nostalgia hard since I loved (most) of the previous Spider-man movies and I am actually pleased in seeing Electro again, because I do think there was a lot of potential with Jamie Foxx's version of the character that was completely and utterly wasted in that excretably bloated movie that was Amazing Spider-man 2.
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
Looks amazing, I seriously want to try and see it in theaters.
I likevrhey gave him his costume.
I also like I think thet have Hobgoblin as well
Spider-man: No Way Home got the third biggest weekend opening ever, only behind the last two Avengers movies ironically enough. It made over $600 million dollars with the second biggest domestic opening at $260 million and $340 internationally. Also interesting, it hasn't even opened yet in China or Japan. It's also the biggest December opening as well, over doubling that of the previous December record release Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
‘Spider-Man: No Way Home’: All the Box Office Records Broken
The Sony and Marvel movie grossed a staggering $600.8 million in its worldwide debut, good for third place on the all-time list — and that despite the ongoing pandemic.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
Its a major crossover where people genuinely don't know what to expect, and as a crossover between past Spiderman series and the MCU, it draws on 20 years of cinema history to create a crossover title that's arguably the biggest new crossover since the Avengers. (new in the sense that its combining settings that weren't already combined)
SpaceOrbis
Well-known member
I watched it not too long ago and it was a great movie. I'll watch it again just so I can maybe pick up bits I missed the first time. It was a very good movie. As somebody who has seen most of the MCU movies to date, this was a really enjoyable crossover.
I don't really have anything bad to say besides it was one less than what was needed to have the Sinister Six. But you need to give them something...right.
I don't really have anything bad to say besides it was one less than what was needed to have the Sinister Six. But you need to give them something...right.
Just got back from seeing it, it was fine, but it was by no means a 100% good score fine.
EDIT, ah I see it's already slipped a bit in it's Rotten Tomatoes score. Good.
EDIT, ah I see it's already slipped a bit in it's Rotten Tomatoes score. Good.
The entire plot happened because Strange never said "this spell will erase this information from everyone in the entire world, I'll have to add exceptions to that, is there anyone you think should still know?" before casting the spell, which was a very glaring moment of "this happened just to make the movie happen". It's particularly dumb because the original version of the spell would have also erased Strange's memory of Peter, which is really dumb on his part. You probably want to keep track of the local superheroes.
Them having May do the "with great power...." line was a bit rough, not because she shouldn't say it but because having her say it then just really telegraphed that she was gonna die, and then she did, in that same scene.
Did not care for the "I'm something of a scientist myself" line popping back up. Meme lines should stay as memes, it was funny once but now comes off as "hello, zoomers, we have been on the internets and know what the cool things are".
There were several shots, like the end shoot at May's grave, that triggered my "that might be CGI" instinct, because once you know that marvel will use CG in shots for no good reason (like in Far from Home where not only was Nick Fury digitally added, Nick Fury's gun was digitally added to his hand. I can accept that scheduling issues might mean you can't get him in the studio, fine. Fedex still works, just mail him the prop), you can never unknow that and you'll start looking for it all the time.
I don't care for how they brought Maguire and Garfield into the plot. Just having them pop into someone's kitchen for an infodump was....eh. One this occasion I would have preferred something more cliche like them showing up mid fight or something and getting a Big Damn Heroes moment.
Garfield and Maguire were also hard to tell apart when suited, their suits look very similar in the dark, and particularly when they're moving fast, and they don't sound different enough to instantly distinguish.
On the plus side:
It was nice seeing Holland suiting up in the classic suit and not one of those annoying MCU techno suits.
J.K. Simmons was, as always, great.
Having electro not have the absurd blue man group look was a big improvement.
Despite it clearly being one of those soulless focus tested bits, having Garfield save MJ was still a nice moment, and I think he earned it after having to be in Amazing Spider Man 2.
And it was nice seeing Maguire and Garfield get to just sit down for a minute and talk, and to just see Maguire again in general.
Them having May do the "with great power...." line was a bit rough, not because she shouldn't say it but because having her say it then just really telegraphed that she was gonna die, and then she did, in that same scene.
Did not care for the "I'm something of a scientist myself" line popping back up. Meme lines should stay as memes, it was funny once but now comes off as "hello, zoomers, we have been on the internets and know what the cool things are".
There were several shots, like the end shoot at May's grave, that triggered my "that might be CGI" instinct, because once you know that marvel will use CG in shots for no good reason (like in Far from Home where not only was Nick Fury digitally added, Nick Fury's gun was digitally added to his hand. I can accept that scheduling issues might mean you can't get him in the studio, fine. Fedex still works, just mail him the prop), you can never unknow that and you'll start looking for it all the time.
I don't care for how they brought Maguire and Garfield into the plot. Just having them pop into someone's kitchen for an infodump was....eh. One this occasion I would have preferred something more cliche like them showing up mid fight or something and getting a Big Damn Heroes moment.
Garfield and Maguire were also hard to tell apart when suited, their suits look very similar in the dark, and particularly when they're moving fast, and they don't sound different enough to instantly distinguish.
On the plus side:
It was nice seeing Holland suiting up in the classic suit and not one of those annoying MCU techno suits.
J.K. Simmons was, as always, great.
Having electro not have the absurd blue man group look was a big improvement.
Despite it clearly being one of those soulless focus tested bits, having Garfield save MJ was still a nice moment, and I think he earned it after having to be in Amazing Spider Man 2.
And it was nice seeing Maguire and Garfield get to just sit down for a minute and talk, and to just see Maguire again in general.
prinCZess
Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
Saw it. It was entertaining, but suffered from a few pretty significant-seeming stumbles in just...relying on really convenient excuse-plot writing for things to happen in general and...Maybe it's just the formula becoming too visible after so many years in use, but doesn't do a good job of keeping a tone. It swings (hehe, get it? It's a Spiderman movie and it swings?) wildly from (attempts at) poignancy and some kind of emotional weight to wacky superhero hijinks far too quickly or inexpertly, without proper transition or...time/respect for the attempted emotional bits.
Willem Dafoe is definitely the highlight-point of the movie. Man acts the heck out of his part, and the implication and attempts at having some sympathy for the psycho evoked there works there probably because of his acting in an inverse of the way the writers attempts at similar sympathy and stuff doesn't manage to work for Holland's spiderman, despite Spiderman getting more screentime (and two prior movies of buildup for his character tests).
Zendaya remains the leading modern example alongside of Kristen Stewart-in-Twilight for 'how did you get a job in the acting business?'. Girl's entire acting reportoire seems to consist of vaguely-visible spunky-brat emoting that's been veneered over with a hundred layers of indifference.
Worth watching once for the fun, fanservicing indulgence in bringing in the two prior spidermen (and definitely for Dafoe...And Simmons is his usual standard of entertaining solidness). But like the prior movies (or a lot of the latest two-cycles of Marvel ones), don't think it/they're going to hold up or be worth rewatching for much themselves besides the fun/novelty of that fanservicing 'three spiderman from the last three generations together'...gimmick? I think that kind'a fits. It's a gimmick. A fun/cool one that is really cool to see because obviously hard to do what-with Hollywood and the like, but a gimmick nonetheless.
I'd also agree on not being crazy about how they did the death since...yeah, very telegraphed and the attempted fake-out was obviously a fake-out because of how the 'great power' line just auto-implies character death. It honestly would have been actually formula-breaking to have a real fake-out and May to live.
Willem Dafoe is definitely the highlight-point of the movie. Man acts the heck out of his part, and the implication and attempts at having some sympathy for the psycho evoked there works there probably because of his acting in an inverse of the way the writers attempts at similar sympathy and stuff doesn't manage to work for Holland's spiderman, despite Spiderman getting more screentime (and two prior movies of buildup for his character tests).
Zendaya remains the leading modern example alongside of Kristen Stewart-in-Twilight for 'how did you get a job in the acting business?'. Girl's entire acting reportoire seems to consist of vaguely-visible spunky-brat emoting that's been veneered over with a hundred layers of indifference.
Worth watching once for the fun, fanservicing indulgence in bringing in the two prior spidermen (and definitely for Dafoe...And Simmons is his usual standard of entertaining solidness). But like the prior movies (or a lot of the latest two-cycles of Marvel ones), don't think it/they're going to hold up or be worth rewatching for much themselves besides the fun/novelty of that fanservicing 'three spiderman from the last three generations together'...gimmick? I think that kind'a fits. It's a gimmick. A fun/cool one that is really cool to see because obviously hard to do what-with Hollywood and the like, but a gimmick nonetheless.
I'd also add that having that scene, especially with how much comedic sidebars there are in it with ceiling-crawling and web-cleaning and such happen right after the Aunt May death was pretty jarring to me. We go from the whole swelling-orchestra death-scene to wacky shenanigans in Spiderman's-friend's kitchen.
I'd also agree on not being crazy about how they did the death since...yeah, very telegraphed and the attempted fake-out was obviously a fake-out because of how the 'great power' line just auto-implies character death. It honestly would have been actually formula-breaking to have a real fake-out and May to live.
SpaceOrbis
Well-known member
I think we can all agree that this movie is mostly fan service. But I don't think it being such is necessarily a bad thing. I for one enjoyed seeing the three generations of Spider-Man though I think the middle one is the worse out of the three. I don't see that being a view most would disagree with. His movies were kind of forgettable. I recall his girlfriend dies but past that his movies were mostly forgotten by me. The only reason I remember that part is because the whole saving the newest girlfriend is a clear callback to that bit in the second movie.
I think the other issue with that as for staying power is that it worked here because of people like me that grew up watching the Maguire spider man movies (and to a much lesser extant, the Garfield ones) are attached to that character and so him showing back up again meant more. Is an audience 20, 30 years from now going to have that same connection? The MCU hasn't gotten as bad as SW is with needing to watch everything to understand anything, but it's almost certainly going to reach that point (arguably No Way Home reached that point with Matt Murdock just showing up out of the blue), but if anyone's watching this years from now "you need to watch these 5 movie to understand these two side characters in this other movie"...that's a bit much, and it's no longer "hey, it's that guy I saw in movies when I was a kid" it's "oh, it's that guy I saw in that movie last month".
That didn't really jump out at me, the MCU has generally been very bad with keeping a consistent tone, I just kinda lump that in "yeah, it's a marvel movie, that's what they do." It's like expecting them to drop the jokes and quips and make an actually serious movie. Not gonna happen.
Saw it last Sunday and to avoid the danger of just seeing it fresh I let my thoughts gel for a few days before I decided to put my thoughts onto (electronic) paper.
I liked the movie a great deal. It's definitely superior in quality to any of the other Phase 4 MCU movies and is probably in the general "upper tier" of MCU movies in general. It's also an excellent Spider-man movie and definitely comparable to Spider-man: Homecoming in overall quality though the movies are fairly different.
It had a lot of nostalgia which I wouldn't quite call fan service because instead of serving the fans primarily, it served the story. And believe me, that was a concern of mine. Interestingly enough the weakest parts of the movie for me had nothing to do with the "nostalgia" callbacks to other films. As others mentioned, the beginning of the story was a bit contrived and it's recognizably so but it didn't bother me because I felt it was fun enough to go with. The main weakpoint for me was actually the ending which was also just as contrived but more disappointing to me thematically because I feel like they wanted to ensure more "loss" and a renewal of the character to its roots or some shit but whatever.
The rest of the film, the meat of it, was all good to great and that includes all of the nostalgia bits of the film. Willem DeFoe and Alfred Molina put in great performances, especially Willem DeFoe who was just absolutely amazing as Norman Osborn/Green Goblin. Jamie Foxx and Thomas Haden Church pulled in decent performances but I feel they were given a lack of direction or time or something or maybe they were just eclipsed by Molina and DeFoe but they never really wow'd me with their perfectly serviceable performances.
The film worked out well with really good action pieces including fights between adversaries that were more then just copies of each other and lots of fun character interaction moments between all of these different characters that was fun and yes, nostalgia laden. I think it was done well, especially for those that might've not seen the earlier Spider-man films so it was a necessary but also very positive addition to the film because seeing all of these characters interact was genuinely enjoyable. There were also some genuinely striking emotional moments, including during the end in spite of me thinking it was a bit of a weak and contrived ending.
What's most striking about this film is that you have like almost a dozen major and minor characters and several interweaving plot threads but the movie didn't feel bloated. This is amazing because a lot of modern blockbuster films feel bloated and they can often sink the quality of a film such as oh say with Spider-man 3 and The Amazing Spider-man 2 which were both bloated and especially in the latters case, impacted the films quality a lot. There was almost none of that here. They were able to make a great movie with a really big cast doing lots of stuff and I give the film kudos for that.
Finally the film had some genuine moral conflict and dilemmas which had some valid points of view from both sides which I appreciated. Most blockbuster films tend to gloss over such things if they even dare to bring them up.
So overall I would recommend it. The contrived beginning didn't bother me. The meat of the movie was great. The nostalgia served the movie and telling its story. There was good action, lots of great acting and character moments and some real emotional beats. And it was an immensely fun and enjoyable movie to watch with characters that you enjoyed watching on the screen despite any weaknesses in the script or setup.
I liked the movie a great deal. It's definitely superior in quality to any of the other Phase 4 MCU movies and is probably in the general "upper tier" of MCU movies in general. It's also an excellent Spider-man movie and definitely comparable to Spider-man: Homecoming in overall quality though the movies are fairly different.
It had a lot of nostalgia which I wouldn't quite call fan service because instead of serving the fans primarily, it served the story. And believe me, that was a concern of mine. Interestingly enough the weakest parts of the movie for me had nothing to do with the "nostalgia" callbacks to other films. As others mentioned, the beginning of the story was a bit contrived and it's recognizably so but it didn't bother me because I felt it was fun enough to go with. The main weakpoint for me was actually the ending which was also just as contrived but more disappointing to me thematically because I feel like they wanted to ensure more "loss" and a renewal of the character to its roots or some shit but whatever.
The rest of the film, the meat of it, was all good to great and that includes all of the nostalgia bits of the film. Willem DeFoe and Alfred Molina put in great performances, especially Willem DeFoe who was just absolutely amazing as Norman Osborn/Green Goblin. Jamie Foxx and Thomas Haden Church pulled in decent performances but I feel they were given a lack of direction or time or something or maybe they were just eclipsed by Molina and DeFoe but they never really wow'd me with their perfectly serviceable performances.
The film worked out well with really good action pieces including fights between adversaries that were more then just copies of each other and lots of fun character interaction moments between all of these different characters that was fun and yes, nostalgia laden. I think it was done well, especially for those that might've not seen the earlier Spider-man films so it was a necessary but also very positive addition to the film because seeing all of these characters interact was genuinely enjoyable. There were also some genuinely striking emotional moments, including during the end in spite of me thinking it was a bit of a weak and contrived ending.
What's most striking about this film is that you have like almost a dozen major and minor characters and several interweaving plot threads but the movie didn't feel bloated. This is amazing because a lot of modern blockbuster films feel bloated and they can often sink the quality of a film such as oh say with Spider-man 3 and The Amazing Spider-man 2 which were both bloated and especially in the latters case, impacted the films quality a lot. There was almost none of that here. They were able to make a great movie with a really big cast doing lots of stuff and I give the film kudos for that.
Finally the film had some genuine moral conflict and dilemmas which had some valid points of view from both sides which I appreciated. Most blockbuster films tend to gloss over such things if they even dare to bring them up.
So overall I would recommend it. The contrived beginning didn't bother me. The meat of the movie was great. The nostalgia served the movie and telling its story. There was good action, lots of great acting and character moments and some real emotional beats. And it was an immensely fun and enjoyable movie to watch with characters that you enjoyed watching on the screen despite any weaknesses in the script or setup.
As I stated before, I didn't feel there were any glaring problems with the film beyond the ending ultimately and just to get that out of the way, the ending where everyone forgets Peter Parker made me almost eyeroll for how odd and hamfisted and awkward that would work and I honestly hope it gets retconned since I feel like it was done just to add more sadness and loss in a movie that would've done fine without it. With that said, the final restaurant scene with Michelle Jones and Ned Leeds in the donut shop did strike some emotional beats with me even though it was contrived so it partially worked, as did the graveyard scene with Happy Hogan. But then at the very end, with him in the apartment and sewing up his own costume in some sort of 'back to basics' type of story, it was a bit much to me. The MCU Spider-man should be different from the other ones. This got me flashbacks to Bendis' One More Day storyline nonsense as if you needed to return this Spider-man to his non-existent roots.
With that out of the way though, everything else in the movie, including yes, the very contrived beginning events that set this all into motion, worked for me. I loved the media fallout storyline in the beginning and the initial interactions with Dr. Strange and while how the spell was cast was stupid and how it all fell apart, the way it was presented to me seemed workable enough for me to suspend my disbelief and go along with the ride.
The fight scenes were fun. Seeing Spider-man get trounced by Doctor Octopus, then using superior technology to turn Ock's lowtech arms against him was very amusing and a nice nod to the dramatic shift in technology over the past two decades. The fight with Sandman AND Spider-man against Electro was neat and I wish it lasted longer. MCU Spider-man is great because he actually uses his brain in a fight and it's a consistent theme with him in using his environment and basic scientific knowledge to outwit his opponents. Plus it was a fight between different powersets... Sandman and Spider-man versus Electro? That is great. More of that.
The other great fight was between MCU Spider-man and Dr. Strange and most of it took place in the Mirror Universe and while it was a bit of a squint your eyes moment, I did enjoy how the fight was presented and how Peter Parker managed to best Dr. Strange.
The final fight was quite serviceable as well though I agree with the earlier poster in that the three Spider-man (or rather Peter Parkers two and three to be specific) were rather hard to tell apart. Eventually I stopped caring though and really just enjoyed what I was seeing onscreen. From the Electro start to the Green Goblin finish it mostly worked for me and I liked a lot of the little moments like when the Spider-men were talking about how they were getting their butts kicked initially and MCU Spider-man flexing his team leader muscle.
Also I was genuinely surprised not that the "Amazing" Spider-man rescued Michelle Jones but that it was actually a moment that had surprising emotional resonance with me when, if someone told me this was going to happen, I would think it'd be narmy af. After all having seen Amazing Spider-man 2, I think I was so jaded by the film that when Gwen Stacy did die, it barely left any emotional impact for me. But in this film, him rescuing MJ worked perfectly. Credit to the film and Andrew Garfield for selling that scene. It was very well done.
As for the individual performances, like I said before Molina and DeFoe were amazing, the latter having some incredible menace. Sandman and Electro were given a fair bit of screentime as well but Sandman never really blossomed as a fleshed out character. They made him too myopic and narrowly defined I feel. If he was working more with the protaganists I feel it would've worked out better and given him more to work with. I enjoyed Jamie Foxx's new Electro but while he was given screentime and I got a good grasp of his character, he never really impacted me except maybe at the end. But there wasn't much emotional resonance with either of them which was unfortunate. Lizard was also there but as talking dinosaurs go, he had some nice one liners but not much else.
I did like the conundrum that Peter Parker was facing in regards to these villains and their fates and how Aunt May and so forth influenced him and the tragedies and triumphs it ultimately led to. Like actual moral conflicts and character growth is something I love to see in mainstream blockbusters and Spider-Man: No Way Home actually served it. Marissa Tomei did a great job providing a moral center to Peter Parker and for all of the crap Zendaya got, I think she did fine as she was cast well. The only awkward point was when the three Spider-men were talking to each other on the rooftop and you could see Zendaya constantly gazing at Peter looking sad. It was a bit of a forced perspective.
Didn't have much problem with how the two Spider-men were (re)introduced either. After what just happened in the apartment battle I think that there was enough passage of time that the shift in tone wasn't jarring as they introduced the Amazing Spider-man and Friendly Neighborhood Spider-man in a full scene. It was fun and funny and worked out just fine for me. And every scene that followed with Andrew Garfield and Tobey Maguire and Tom Holland and their pals was simply a treat to enjoy. I loved them all and it's hard to think of an interaction that was my favorite of the bunch, though MCU Spider-man talking about how he is a member of the Avengers and Tobey Maguire just earnestly congratulating him on the achievement he himself has no idea of was beautiful. As was Andrew Garfield thinking it might be a band. The movie did a great job bringing out three distinctive characters again and even for folks who didn't see the previous movie, made them their own characters with the limited time onscreen.
With that out of the way though, everything else in the movie, including yes, the very contrived beginning events that set this all into motion, worked for me. I loved the media fallout storyline in the beginning and the initial interactions with Dr. Strange and while how the spell was cast was stupid and how it all fell apart, the way it was presented to me seemed workable enough for me to suspend my disbelief and go along with the ride.
The fight scenes were fun. Seeing Spider-man get trounced by Doctor Octopus, then using superior technology to turn Ock's lowtech arms against him was very amusing and a nice nod to the dramatic shift in technology over the past two decades. The fight with Sandman AND Spider-man against Electro was neat and I wish it lasted longer. MCU Spider-man is great because he actually uses his brain in a fight and it's a consistent theme with him in using his environment and basic scientific knowledge to outwit his opponents. Plus it was a fight between different powersets... Sandman and Spider-man versus Electro? That is great. More of that.
The other great fight was between MCU Spider-man and Dr. Strange and most of it took place in the Mirror Universe and while it was a bit of a squint your eyes moment, I did enjoy how the fight was presented and how Peter Parker managed to best Dr. Strange.
The final fight was quite serviceable as well though I agree with the earlier poster in that the three Spider-man (or rather Peter Parkers two and three to be specific) were rather hard to tell apart. Eventually I stopped caring though and really just enjoyed what I was seeing onscreen. From the Electro start to the Green Goblin finish it mostly worked for me and I liked a lot of the little moments like when the Spider-men were talking about how they were getting their butts kicked initially and MCU Spider-man flexing his team leader muscle.
Also I was genuinely surprised not that the "Amazing" Spider-man rescued Michelle Jones but that it was actually a moment that had surprising emotional resonance with me when, if someone told me this was going to happen, I would think it'd be narmy af. After all having seen Amazing Spider-man 2, I think I was so jaded by the film that when Gwen Stacy did die, it barely left any emotional impact for me. But in this film, him rescuing MJ worked perfectly. Credit to the film and Andrew Garfield for selling that scene. It was very well done.
As for the individual performances, like I said before Molina and DeFoe were amazing, the latter having some incredible menace. Sandman and Electro were given a fair bit of screentime as well but Sandman never really blossomed as a fleshed out character. They made him too myopic and narrowly defined I feel. If he was working more with the protaganists I feel it would've worked out better and given him more to work with. I enjoyed Jamie Foxx's new Electro but while he was given screentime and I got a good grasp of his character, he never really impacted me except maybe at the end. But there wasn't much emotional resonance with either of them which was unfortunate. Lizard was also there but as talking dinosaurs go, he had some nice one liners but not much else.
I did like the conundrum that Peter Parker was facing in regards to these villains and their fates and how Aunt May and so forth influenced him and the tragedies and triumphs it ultimately led to. Like actual moral conflicts and character growth is something I love to see in mainstream blockbusters and Spider-Man: No Way Home actually served it. Marissa Tomei did a great job providing a moral center to Peter Parker and for all of the crap Zendaya got, I think she did fine as she was cast well. The only awkward point was when the three Spider-men were talking to each other on the rooftop and you could see Zendaya constantly gazing at Peter looking sad. It was a bit of a forced perspective.
Didn't have much problem with how the two Spider-men were (re)introduced either. After what just happened in the apartment battle I think that there was enough passage of time that the shift in tone wasn't jarring as they introduced the Amazing Spider-man and Friendly Neighborhood Spider-man in a full scene. It was fun and funny and worked out just fine for me. And every scene that followed with Andrew Garfield and Tobey Maguire and Tom Holland and their pals was simply a treat to enjoy. I loved them all and it's hard to think of an interaction that was my favorite of the bunch, though MCU Spider-man talking about how he is a member of the Avengers and Tobey Maguire just earnestly congratulating him on the achievement he himself has no idea of was beautiful. As was Andrew Garfield thinking it might be a band. The movie did a great job bringing out three distinctive characters again and even for folks who didn't see the previous movie, made them their own characters with the limited time onscreen.
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
I wanted to like this film. I really did. I will also admit that the scenes with the other spider-man was awesome. That's sadly where my positives end. This whole movie is very contrived and its entire existence rest on the main characters being stupid. Combine that with the ending and the whole thing feels like a blatant studio mandate and less like a film.
For all few at this point who probably don't know the plot, the movie takes place directly after the 2nd film where in the court of public opinion Peter Parker is public enemy #1 thanks to hit pieces by Internet reporter and energy supplement peddler J Jonah Jameson (played by the ever-great Jonathan Kimble Simmons who can still give this JJ some flair despite this hokey script) How does a blatant Alex Jones Expy LITTERALY reporting from a greenscreen in his basement have enough influence over the world to make Peter Parker public enemy #1 despite his only evidence being a youtube quality deepfake? Don't ask me but I digress.
MJ and Peter are now on the run dodging cameras and news helicopters and a shaken-up Peter is constantly apologizing to MJ for dragging her into this. She however has no regrets. While having admittedly a sweet moment on the rooftop, MJ asks peter if he feels relieved not having a secret identity to which he says after being bitten by the radioactive spider the most normal week he had was when everyone he cared about learned he was Spider-Man. MJ also makes it clear that in spite of this new drama she would not change a thing and will happily take on whatever the world decides to throw at them. Keep this in the back of your mind because I'll bring this up later.
Cue some Hollywood interrogation scenes with an interrogator that's so smug and on the nose you'd think he was a kingpin mook trying to set spider-man up (Would have been a nice twist but hey let's try to keep comparisons to that much better multiverse spider-man film to a minimum.) and a cameo from Daredevil and we learn the charges won't stick. No you think? I would have loved to see that court hearing, but the movie was already 2 h 30 min long and they probably didn't want to get too meta with the plot holes in the film starting to form.
Still despite Peter being a free man and now being the most popular in school somehow (The court of public opinion is very fickle) there is still fallout. Peter learns what cancel culture is as no college will accept him or his friends due to "Recent controversy." and despite constantly being reassured by those that love him that everything is ok. He still can't let go and
after staring at Halloween decertations in a donut shop MJ works at. He gets the bright idea to visit Dr. Strange.
This is where the film starts to get the worse case of what I like to Call "Anakin Skywalker syndrome" I've ever seen. Let me explain. Before the release of the expanded materials to fully flesh out Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, all we had for the prequals was the movies. As such seeing Anakin's turn especially giving his motivations at the time made no sense given the logic of the universe. Anakin turns because he's afraid that Padme will die due to having complications giving birth, despite the fact the world has things like Bacta and force powers like force healing were well established both in video games and books at the time. (No Virgina Rey Palpatine did not create the force healing power.) It became clear that Anakin's turn was less because it made since story wise and more because well it was a prequal made after the fact and we had to connect to the two trilogies somehow.
This film somehow has even more of a blatant case of "Anakin Skywalker syndrome" despite not being suffering the curse of being a prequal. Peter visits Dr. Strange and basically asks him if he can cast a spell to make the world forget that Peter is Spider-man. Much to Wong's protest. the good Dr. Agrees to do the spell pointing out he's used the spell for much more petty things. Wong leaves (Probably to fight Abomination in an underground fight club in Macau) and rightfully tells Strange to keep him out of this.
While Strange cast the spell Peter remembers suddenly that the people, he cares about really care about him and he asks if Dr Strange can change the spell just slightly so that MJ still remembers. At First Dr Strange is happy to oblige, removing MJ's aura from the spells radius and even Ned's and Aunt May's however he's reached his limit of reasonable changes WHILE the spell is being casted. Peter however makes like 6 changes over the course of a minute. His final request. "Everyone who's ever fought with him that knows his identity." This last request breaks Dr. Strange's concentration and as a result the Spell breaks a hole in the multiverse. Now everyone in the multiverse that A spider-man has ever fought with that knows who he was is zoning in on the MCU including some familiar rouges gallery members.
Now let me get this straight. You mean to tell me that this spell could have been altered like the settings menu of a video game and Mr "Make sure to read to the end before casting the spell." didn't bother to sit peter down and go.
"Now before we get started, just to let you know I CAN alter the spell slightly so that certain people still know who you are, but I need to know who before I start casting. So, here is a pencil and some paper. Make a list of people who you still think need to know who Spider-man is and then give it to me, I'll make sure they still remember. After you hand me the list though I'll need you to leave the room, because once I start casting any noise or distractions can cause catastrophic results. "
Strange says with the spell's failure Dr. Strange apologies but comforts Peter saying that if even after pleading his case he's not able to get in, there really isin't anything he can do. Peter gives him a deer in the headlight look and I think Strange sums it up perfectly.
Even the writers are aware of their own contrived plot. Most of the film at this point is fan service after fan service. Alfred Molina and William Dafoe steal the show reprising thier roles from the Ramiverse spider-man films and yes they make it clear that it is that universe. Aunt May loses all her street smarts developing a "I can fix him." complex and insist that Peter try to cure people saying with "great power comes great responsibility." wait what's that grim reaper figure behind her?"
Doc Ock is easy enough to fix and you remember just how precious he was prior to being controlled by his arms, but the others don't want to be cured. The thing of note is that Green goblin kills aunt may and while I did see it coming a mile away, it's probably the best "uncle ben" scene next to Prowler's death scene in into the Spider verse."
Peter hides on the top of the Milton high building and gets a pep speech from "an unlikely" (Yet totally foreseen) source. His other selves, played by Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield. Tobey Maguire makes me realize just how the Rami movie series was killed way too soon, but I must admit that Into the Spider-verse did it better.
The big climatic fight scene is essentially the three spider-men vs a Psudo sinister six. Though Doc ock quickly joins the heroes and venom is not present. The fight scene is as awesome as you'd expect, nothing else to say there. But the ending is sadly where the movie really nukes itself in cringe and eyerolls. Dr Strange is unable to prevent the universe from breaking and the only way to prevent it from happening is casting a spell...to make the universe that peter parker ever existed. So yeah, the series literally reboots itself. Everyone including MJ and Ned forget Peter parker, despite pleas from both Ned and MJ for peter not to go through with the spell. Peter tries to introduce himself to MJ but can't go through with it, Peter gets his GED with expectations of reapplying to the same schools that MJ is going to, and Peter applies to the daily bugle saying he can give JJ pictures of Spider-Man...Ok that last part didn't happen, but would you have been surprised if it did?
It's obvious why they did it. In the comics, MJ was Peter's college fling not high school. In the comics Ned was Miles Morales's best friend not Peter's. In the comics Peter was a nobody living in a small New York apartment not a protégé of Tony Stark rubbing shoulders with the avengers right out of the gate, They wanted to make the MCU more akin to his 616 counterpart but the way they go about it was so ham-fisted and choreographed that it's like the mandate was made first, and the film was made to meet that mandate. Gee Peter Parker makes a deal with a mysterious magical figure to fix something that could have easily been fixed through mundane means makes stupid decision after stupid decision all so the higher ups can blatantly and shamelessly reboot him. Where have we heard THAT before. maybe the theories behind Dr Strange being the MCU's Maphisto are on to something.
Honestly this film could have been called Spider-Man: One More Day and while this film is far more entertaining than said comic, the fact that I'm noting similar flaws between this movie and one of the most critically panned spider-man stories ever should be considered a very bad sign.
I get it Spider-man is about taking crap and rising above even the darkest of times, but it's hard to take those emotional sacrifices seriously when the story that led up to those moments can't. With Tobey's Peter none of the chaotic things that happened to him were his fault. It wasn't his fault that MJ was two self-absorbed to understand what Peter was going through as Spider-Man it wasn't his fault that Harry decided to become an alcoholic that was desperate to be his dad. Peter didn't ask for this, he didn't cause it, he was just a normal guy who was delt with a bad hand and not given much support. yet he still fought through it and based on some subtle dialogue from Tobey-Peter, he won. and beat the odds.
MCU Peter has none of that grounded sympathy. Everything that occurs in the fil, occurs because of his own plot induced stupidity AND those around him. Keep this whole thing occurred because Peter and his friends couldn't get into college and the master of magic couldn't be bothered to properly explain the spell. And remember when I said to keep in the back of your mind that MJ makes it clear that in spite of this new drama, she would not change a thing and will happily take on whatever the world decides to throw at them, forget that because peter has to paint him into a corner that justifies rebooting the universe. I can't say that Peter took away his friends' agency, more so the writers did.
And I think this sums up my problems with Spider-Man as a whole including the comics. He's not allowed to change he's not allowed to be different. he's not even allowed to be remixed. There is only so many stories' writers feel like they can tell with him and once all those stories have been told they have to come up with an arbitrary reason to repeat the cycle. Peter's no longer a relatable everyman but a stunted socially awkward man-child that is forced to make the same stupid decisions over and over again.
Honestly, at this point Peter Parker would be more interesting if he did a Walter white and broke bad (with no extremal influence like mind control or an alien symbiote. Ironically, he might actually get his life together.
Honestly. Spider-verse did this plot better and I'll just stick with that. Seeing Tobey was nice, but It honestly just makes me wish we had gotten a Spider-Man 4
For all few at this point who probably don't know the plot, the movie takes place directly after the 2nd film where in the court of public opinion Peter Parker is public enemy #1 thanks to hit pieces by Internet reporter and energy supplement peddler J Jonah Jameson (played by the ever-great Jonathan Kimble Simmons who can still give this JJ some flair despite this hokey script) How does a blatant Alex Jones Expy LITTERALY reporting from a greenscreen in his basement have enough influence over the world to make Peter Parker public enemy #1 despite his only evidence being a youtube quality deepfake? Don't ask me but I digress.
MJ and Peter are now on the run dodging cameras and news helicopters and a shaken-up Peter is constantly apologizing to MJ for dragging her into this. She however has no regrets. While having admittedly a sweet moment on the rooftop, MJ asks peter if he feels relieved not having a secret identity to which he says after being bitten by the radioactive spider the most normal week he had was when everyone he cared about learned he was Spider-Man. MJ also makes it clear that in spite of this new drama she would not change a thing and will happily take on whatever the world decides to throw at them. Keep this in the back of your mind because I'll bring this up later.
Cue some Hollywood interrogation scenes with an interrogator that's so smug and on the nose you'd think he was a kingpin mook trying to set spider-man up (Would have been a nice twist but hey let's try to keep comparisons to that much better multiverse spider-man film to a minimum.) and a cameo from Daredevil and we learn the charges won't stick. No you think? I would have loved to see that court hearing, but the movie was already 2 h 30 min long and they probably didn't want to get too meta with the plot holes in the film starting to form.
Still despite Peter being a free man and now being the most popular in school somehow (The court of public opinion is very fickle) there is still fallout. Peter learns what cancel culture is as no college will accept him or his friends due to "Recent controversy." and despite constantly being reassured by those that love him that everything is ok. He still can't let go and
after staring at Halloween decertations in a donut shop MJ works at. He gets the bright idea to visit Dr. Strange.
This is where the film starts to get the worse case of what I like to Call "Anakin Skywalker syndrome" I've ever seen. Let me explain. Before the release of the expanded materials to fully flesh out Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, all we had for the prequals was the movies. As such seeing Anakin's turn especially giving his motivations at the time made no sense given the logic of the universe. Anakin turns because he's afraid that Padme will die due to having complications giving birth, despite the fact the world has things like Bacta and force powers like force healing were well established both in video games and books at the time. (No Virgina Rey Palpatine did not create the force healing power.) It became clear that Anakin's turn was less because it made since story wise and more because well it was a prequal made after the fact and we had to connect to the two trilogies somehow.
This film somehow has even more of a blatant case of "Anakin Skywalker syndrome" despite not being suffering the curse of being a prequal. Peter visits Dr. Strange and basically asks him if he can cast a spell to make the world forget that Peter is Spider-man. Much to Wong's protest. the good Dr. Agrees to do the spell pointing out he's used the spell for much more petty things. Wong leaves (Probably to fight Abomination in an underground fight club in Macau) and rightfully tells Strange to keep him out of this.
While Strange cast the spell Peter remembers suddenly that the people, he cares about really care about him and he asks if Dr Strange can change the spell just slightly so that MJ still remembers. At First Dr Strange is happy to oblige, removing MJ's aura from the spells radius and even Ned's and Aunt May's however he's reached his limit of reasonable changes WHILE the spell is being casted. Peter however makes like 6 changes over the course of a minute. His final request. "Everyone who's ever fought with him that knows his identity." This last request breaks Dr. Strange's concentration and as a result the Spell breaks a hole in the multiverse. Now everyone in the multiverse that A spider-man has ever fought with that knows who he was is zoning in on the MCU including some familiar rouges gallery members.
Now let me get this straight. You mean to tell me that this spell could have been altered like the settings menu of a video game and Mr "Make sure to read to the end before casting the spell." didn't bother to sit peter down and go.
"Now before we get started, just to let you know I CAN alter the spell slightly so that certain people still know who you are, but I need to know who before I start casting. So, here is a pencil and some paper. Make a list of people who you still think need to know who Spider-man is and then give it to me, I'll make sure they still remember. After you hand me the list though I'll need you to leave the room, because once I start casting any noise or distractions can cause catastrophic results. "
Strange says with the spell's failure Dr. Strange apologies but comforts Peter saying that if even after pleading his case he's not able to get in, there really isin't anything he can do. Peter gives him a deer in the headlight look and I think Strange sums it up perfectly.
Even the writers are aware of their own contrived plot. Most of the film at this point is fan service after fan service. Alfred Molina and William Dafoe steal the show reprising thier roles from the Ramiverse spider-man films and yes they make it clear that it is that universe. Aunt May loses all her street smarts developing a "I can fix him." complex and insist that Peter try to cure people saying with "great power comes great responsibility." wait what's that grim reaper figure behind her?"
Doc Ock is easy enough to fix and you remember just how precious he was prior to being controlled by his arms, but the others don't want to be cured. The thing of note is that Green goblin kills aunt may and while I did see it coming a mile away, it's probably the best "uncle ben" scene next to Prowler's death scene in into the Spider verse."
Peter hides on the top of the Milton high building and gets a pep speech from "an unlikely" (Yet totally foreseen) source. His other selves, played by Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield. Tobey Maguire makes me realize just how the Rami movie series was killed way too soon, but I must admit that Into the Spider-verse did it better.
The big climatic fight scene is essentially the three spider-men vs a Psudo sinister six. Though Doc ock quickly joins the heroes and venom is not present. The fight scene is as awesome as you'd expect, nothing else to say there. But the ending is sadly where the movie really nukes itself in cringe and eyerolls. Dr Strange is unable to prevent the universe from breaking and the only way to prevent it from happening is casting a spell...to make the universe that peter parker ever existed. So yeah, the series literally reboots itself. Everyone including MJ and Ned forget Peter parker, despite pleas from both Ned and MJ for peter not to go through with the spell. Peter tries to introduce himself to MJ but can't go through with it, Peter gets his GED with expectations of reapplying to the same schools that MJ is going to, and Peter applies to the daily bugle saying he can give JJ pictures of Spider-Man...Ok that last part didn't happen, but would you have been surprised if it did?
It's obvious why they did it. In the comics, MJ was Peter's college fling not high school. In the comics Ned was Miles Morales's best friend not Peter's. In the comics Peter was a nobody living in a small New York apartment not a protégé of Tony Stark rubbing shoulders with the avengers right out of the gate, They wanted to make the MCU more akin to his 616 counterpart but the way they go about it was so ham-fisted and choreographed that it's like the mandate was made first, and the film was made to meet that mandate. Gee Peter Parker makes a deal with a mysterious magical figure to fix something that could have easily been fixed through mundane means makes stupid decision after stupid decision all so the higher ups can blatantly and shamelessly reboot him. Where have we heard THAT before. maybe the theories behind Dr Strange being the MCU's Maphisto are on to something.
Honestly this film could have been called Spider-Man: One More Day and while this film is far more entertaining than said comic, the fact that I'm noting similar flaws between this movie and one of the most critically panned spider-man stories ever should be considered a very bad sign.
I get it Spider-man is about taking crap and rising above even the darkest of times, but it's hard to take those emotional sacrifices seriously when the story that led up to those moments can't. With Tobey's Peter none of the chaotic things that happened to him were his fault. It wasn't his fault that MJ was two self-absorbed to understand what Peter was going through as Spider-Man it wasn't his fault that Harry decided to become an alcoholic that was desperate to be his dad. Peter didn't ask for this, he didn't cause it, he was just a normal guy who was delt with a bad hand and not given much support. yet he still fought through it and based on some subtle dialogue from Tobey-Peter, he won. and beat the odds.
MCU Peter has none of that grounded sympathy. Everything that occurs in the fil, occurs because of his own plot induced stupidity AND those around him. Keep this whole thing occurred because Peter and his friends couldn't get into college and the master of magic couldn't be bothered to properly explain the spell. And remember when I said to keep in the back of your mind that MJ makes it clear that in spite of this new drama, she would not change a thing and will happily take on whatever the world decides to throw at them, forget that because peter has to paint him into a corner that justifies rebooting the universe. I can't say that Peter took away his friends' agency, more so the writers did.
And I think this sums up my problems with Spider-Man as a whole including the comics. He's not allowed to change he's not allowed to be different. he's not even allowed to be remixed. There is only so many stories' writers feel like they can tell with him and once all those stories have been told they have to come up with an arbitrary reason to repeat the cycle. Peter's no longer a relatable everyman but a stunted socially awkward man-child that is forced to make the same stupid decisions over and over again.
Honestly, at this point Peter Parker would be more interesting if he did a Walter white and broke bad (with no extremal influence like mind control or an alien symbiote. Ironically, he might actually get his life together.
Honestly. Spider-verse did this plot better and I'll just stick with that. Seeing Tobey was nice, but It honestly just makes me wish we had gotten a Spider-Man 4
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
Yikes, No Way Home is ANOTHER fucking reboot?
Time to restart the counter....
Time to restart the counter....
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
Wow, was the theater empty? Were you in the back?
If not what a massive violation of theatre etiquette, he should've waited for you outside.
We were all the way in the back on a Monday, so not too many people. It's not like he was bothering anybody. I wasn't sure he would like it but it was my turn to pick. The only MCU movie he really liked was Winter Soldier.
Apparently Spiderman No Way Home might eclipse Avatar for biggest US Domestic Box Office with the latter at $760 million.
Even Tom Holland was surprised.
Even Tom Holland was surprised.
Poor DareDevil/Charlie Cox...
I guess he didn't see that coming...
I guess he didn't see that coming...