Versus Match Sauron vs the Dune universe

Bassoe

Well-known member
Scenario: As Duke Leto Atreides the first and his family pack up to move from Caladan to Arrakis, ROB drops Second Age Sauron on Kaitain, fiefdom of House Corrino and capital of the Padishah Emperor.

Version One: The Ring is present on Arrakis, currently lying unclaimed in the desert, only detectable by prescience or extremely unlikely coincidence.

Version Two: Sauron is wearing the Ring upon his arrival.

In either case, the Ring can be destroyed via a specific volcano in the industrial/volcanic wasteland of Giedi Prime, identifiable solely by prescience or extremely unlikely coincidence.
 

Val the Moofia Boss

Well-known member
Does anyone in the Dune universe know that Sauron can be killed by dropping the Ring into the volcano? Because if not, then Sauron simply is never going to be defeated because no one will think to drop the Ring into the volcano.

Whether Sauron has the ring or not isn't really important. With or without it, it will be a simple task for Sauron to seduce men to his side and climb up the chain and take over the galaxy. If he is mortally killed, his spirit will persist and will eventually reconstitute and he will just begin building back up again under a different identity in a different part of the galaxy (like when the Last Alliance defeated Sauron the first time but he just wound up coming back later).
 

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
If it's Second Age Sauron, then by definition he either hasn't made the Ring yet, or he's wearing it.

Does he have the other rings? Any leaders of houses who might like a bit of a boost to their charisma, leadership and lifespan... at a price?
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
He can always make more. He also likely gets in put on the map politically by getting the Bene Tlelaxu and Ixians to come to the table and "make peace" under Lord Annatar.
 

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
He can always make more. He also likely gets in put on the map politically by getting the Bene Tlelaxu and Ixians to come to the table and "make peace" under Lord Annatar.

Those are still mortal Men, not the High Elves - and trying to control the Noldor was part of the original point of the Rings of Power. Sauron doesn't need them to gain control over Men.
 
Last edited:

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
Not powerful enough.

His son, maybe but Paul is getting mentally crushed by Sauron.

There have been mortal men who've resisted Sauron's mind-control attempts, at least at a distance, but they've all been people not only of strong personal will, but also of strong moral character and loyalty to a cause higher than themselves.
The "Mua'dhib" fails hard on that last point.

Denethor, Steward of Gondor ( the Peter Jackson movie does a hatchet job on him, btw) could not be subverted by Sauron, only driven to despair, because of his strong sense of duty to his people and to his hereditary office.
Saruman on the other hand, having abandoned his loyalty to the Valar, was more vulnerable, despite being personally far stronger in mind than any mortal.

Paul Atreides? Sauron eats people him for breakfast.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
IIRC correctly, his cause was riding herd on the People so they didn't burninate the galaxy. Though, to be fair, I've only read Dune, and my knowledge is incomplete.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
Does anyone in the Dune universe know that Sauron can be killed by dropping the Ring into the volcano? Because if not, then Sauron simply is never going to be defeated because no one will think to drop the Ring into the volcano.
Prophetic powers are Path To Victory. Soon as Paul first ODs on the Water of Life and unlocks Kwisatz Haderach mode he'll know that out of every single possible course of action, only this specific one can permanently kill Sauron.

Actually getting the Ring and not being corrupted once he has it are another matter of course.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Sauron got taken out by iron age stabby weapons.

I doubt he can do much against Dune-style laser weapons, prescience and living computers like the mentats.
And dumping him on dune means he will become:
a) Sandworm chow.
b) An addition to some Sietch's water reservoirs.
Prescience was not exclusiveto Paul, the Guild was so good at it that some of its agents literally didn't need to look at the world through their regular eyes and interference from Paul made it impossible for them to walk around.
 

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
Sauron got taken out by iron age stabby weapons.

I doubt he can do much against Dune-style laser weapons, prescience and living computers like the mentats.
And dumping him on dune means he will become:
a) Sandworm chow.
b) An addition to some Sietch's water reservoirs.
Prescience was not exclusiveto Paul, the Guild was so good at it that some of its agents literally didn't need to look at the world through their regular eyes and interference from Paul made it impossible for them to walk around.

In response to this... I am simply going to suggest that you actually read Lord of the Rings sometime...
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
In response to this... I am simply going to suggest that you actually read Lord of the Rings sometime...
No, thanks.I will just go by what I remember from the movies.

Also laswrapons > magical ring vulnerable to volcanoes.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
Prescience was not exclusiveto Paul, the Guild was so good at it that some of its agents literally didn't need to look at the world through their regular eyes and interference from Paul made it impossible for them to walk around.

The Spacing Guild even admitted to the Bene Gesserit that their prescience was limited by an unknown nexus which wasn't allowing them to secure the spice they needed. The Bene Gesserit were apparently more aware of this but were inefficiently unable to take direct action plus only had partial knowledge for their prescience to act upon.

We can later assume that the nexus was Paul/Maud'dib and his powerful prescience that was blinding the Spacing Guild and Bene Gesserit but the Appendix detailing this admission "This could only mean they saw a nexus, a meeting place of countless delicate decisions, beyond which the path was hidden from the prescient eye. This was a clear indication that some agency was interfering with higher order dimensions!"

Sauron being a fallen Maia is an out of context problem unlike the Kwisatz Heiderach and its already established that prescience as practiced by the Spacing Guild and Bene Gesserit certainly didn't help them with a problem that the latter at least had some knowledge of (through KH shenanigans), and that the former was simply incapable of dealing with period.

I don't see how (yet anyways) Prescience can be confidently applied to whatever Sauron might decide he gets up to.
 

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
The Spacing Guild even admitted to the Bene Gesserit that their prescience was limited by an unknown nexus which wasn't allowing them to secure the spice they needed. The Bene Gesserit were apparently more aware of this but were inefficiently unable to take direct action plus only had partial knowledge for their prescience to act upon.

We can later assume that the nexus was Paul/Maud'dib and his powerful prescience that was blinding the Spacing Guild and Bene Gesserit but the Appendix detailing this admission "This could only mean they saw a nexus, a meeting place of countless delicate decisions, beyond which the path was hidden from the prescient eye. This was a clear indication that some agency was interfering with higher order dimensions!"

Sauron being a fallen Maia is an out of context problem unlike the Kwisatz Heiderach and its already established that prescience as practiced by the Spacing Guild and Bene Gesserit certainly didn't help them with a problem that the latter at least had some knowledge of (through KH shenanigans), and that the former was simply incapable of dealing with period.

I don't see how (yet anyways) Prescience can be confidently applied to whatever Sauron might decide he gets up to.

This is what anyone trying to use their prescience will start seeing:
sauron-eye.gif
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
This is what anyone trying to use their prescience will start seeing:
sauron-eye.gif
Prescience in Dune works differently than in your average Fantasy universe, and sending Sauron I to a battle of wits and fear with the likes of the Bene Gesserit or the Guild or a full blown Kuizats Haderah will make him piss himself and die of fear.
I doubt he will survive a Gom Jabar.
 

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
Prescience in Dune works differently than in your average Fantasy universe, and sending Sauron I to a battle of wits and fear with the likes of the Bene Gesserit or the Guild or a full blown Kuizats Haderah will make him piss himself and die of fear.
I doubt he will survive a Gom Jabar.

If Sauron lets anyone poke him with a little poison pin, it would be because he wants to show off that he's totally immune. That stuff works on human physiology. For a Maia like Sauron, a body is like a suit of clothing.

In Sauron's actual presence, the Bene Gesserit and so on would all be cowering in abject fear.

Dune has stabby weapons that can kill people. Ooooh.
Sauron's forces can make stabby weapons that can turn people into wraiths enslaved to Sauron's will.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
If Sauron lets anyone poke him with a little poison pin, it would be because he wants to show off that he's totally immune. That stuff works on human physiology. For a Maia like Sauron, a body is like a suit of clothing.

In Sauron's actual presence, the Bene Gesserit and so on would all be cowering in abject fear.

Dune has stabby weapons that can kill people. Ooooh.
Sauron's forces can make stabby weapons that can turn people into wraiths enslaved to Sauron's will.
Bene Gesserit can literally manipulate their body chemistry, I doubt that knife will do anything.

A lasgun will annihilate the one ring, or if things get that bad a Stone burner, or even atomics, some of that shit can literally crack a planet's mantle, and by Chapterhouse total planetary destruction was possible.

Prescience can also be blocked by some forms of tech, like No-ships that literally bend reality to hide from prescience.

Also, if he isn't a human that means the great convention does not work on him, nukes ahoy.
 
Last edited:

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
Bene Gesserit can literally manipulate their body chemistry, I doubt that knife will do anything.

Turning someone into a wraith is not "chemistry". We are not talking about a weapon that will kill you. We are talking about a weapon that will make you.. ahem... not die at all.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top