Russian revanchism if Germany wins a late victory in World War I?

WolfBear

Well-known member
Could we see eventual Russian revanchism if Germany wins a late victory in World War I? I'm thinking something like Brest-Litovsk in the East and at least a negotiated settlement in the West, either due to no US entry into the war (due to no USW resumption) or for some other reason.

While Russia would endure extremely massive and crippling territorial losses at Brest-Litovsk, it's worth noting that Russia endured comparable territorial losses for a time during World War II and yet was still able to fight on with the help of British and American aid, especially in the form of Lend-Lease. In turn, this raises a question: Could some kind of revanchist and possibly totalitarian Russian leader eventually emerge in this scenario (possibly in the 1930s or beyond, assuming that the Bolsheviks are quickly overthrown by the victorious Germans after they win WWI in the West), aggressively industrialize and rearm his country, seek large-scale Western military assistance, especially from the Anglo-Americans, and eventually seek to pursue a revanchist war against Germany?

You might say that Germany might aim to quickly decapitate such a Russian regime, but I'm not so sure about that. France, after all, refused to act when the Rhineland got remilitarized in 1936, and Germany might likewise fear sparking a major insurgency in Russia, preferring to believe that Russia's form of government is not a threat to it so long as it's not Communist and so long as Germany has adequate military deterrence in its eastern borderlands. Still, might Russia eventually have enough courage to try waging a war against Germany to recover at least some of its lost territories--possibly sometime in the 1940s or beyond? I'm thinking of, say, a Russian advance up to the Daugava-Dnieper Line here, after which point Russia could offer to convert the existing front line into Russia's new western border while also allowing Germany to save face by allowing Germany to preserve a significant part of its informal Eastern European empire.

Anyway, what do you think?
 
The Russians would be too weak relatively speaking if Germany wins to actually be revanchist. Especially if the civil war still happens and the Bolsheviks win. Not only do they get the worst situation for the new regime, they won't have a friendly Germany to trade with in the 1920s either.
 
The Russians would be too weak relatively speaking if Germany wins to actually be revanchist. Especially if the civil war still happens and the Bolsheviks win. Not only do they get the worst situation for the new regime, they won't have a friendly Germany to trade with in the 1920s either.

But will the Bolsheviks actually win?

Also, didn't the US have some sympathy for the Bolsheviks in the Soviet Union's early years, even if it didn't formally recognize them as Russia's government until 1933?
 
But will the Bolsheviks actually win?
No idea TBH. Given that the White movement was Entente aligned I think Germany would just let it play out and support their puppet buffer states.

Also, didn't the US have some sympathy for the Bolsheviks in the Soviet Union's early years, even if it didn't formally recognize them as Russia's government until 1933?
Nope. Rather the opposite since they refused to pay for Russia's war loans. They were largely embargoed until the 1930s.
 
No idea TBH. Given that the White movement was Entente aligned I think Germany would just let it play out and support their puppet buffer states.


Nope. Rather the opposite since they refused to pay for Russia's war loans. They were largely embargoed until the 1930s.

With the logic that the Reds will screw over Russia worse than the Whites will?

Just how many of these war loans were from the US, though?
 
With the logic that the Reds will screw over Russia worse than the Whites will?
More than the Reds are isolated politically and not the threat to Germany that the Whites would be since they would still be aligned with the Entente.

Just how many of these war loans were from the US, though?
There were the unsecured loans given out by the US during after 1917 and there were the rest made by Britain who borrowed from the US since they had the terms available. I'm not sure the breakdown between the two, but it looks like ~2.6 billion British pounds were added to the national debt between 1914 and the October Revolution.
Between the beginning of the war and Bolsheviks’ accession to power, the debt soared to £3,385 million, about 3.5 times what it had been.
Bolshevik revolutionaries overthrew the Provisional government on October 24, 1917, subsequently creating the Soviet government. The amounts of payments in default were enormous.[3] Russian debt to Great Britain alone at the end of World War I was estimated at between 538 and 568 million pounds. The amount of debt to France was estimated at 3,573 million francs and Russian foreign debt to Japan equaled 147 million dollars.

 
More than the Reds are isolated politically and not the threat to Germany that the Whites would be since they would still be aligned with the Entente.

But the Reds are also advocating in favor of world Communist revolution!

There were the unsecured loans given out by the US during after 1917 and there were the rest made by Britain who borrowed from the US since they had the terms available. I'm not sure the breakdown between the two, but it looks like ~2.6 billion British pounds were added to the national debt between 1914 and the October Revolution.


Interesting; thank you.
 
Which is why they are less of a threat since everyone has reasons to be afraid of them, so would back Germany over a Soviet Russia on the march.


(y)

Except subversive leftist German workers, who will of course aim to support the Bolsheviks!
 
Except subversive leftist German workers, who will of course aim to support the Bolsheviks!
They were soundly defeated in 1919. After the civil war was finished there wasn't much militancy left in the German Left given their pretty severe losses.
 

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