ROB has put you in charge of Disney.

Agent23

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We're seeing this with Star Wars right now.

If rumours are to be believed, outside of her NPC clique, KK is pretty much detested inside of Lucasfilm and Disney as a whole. It's gotten so bad that a lot of board members are doing everything they can to give her and her drones the boot before they do even more damage.

They actively helped make Disney a hated brand, and they fucked up what should have been a money-printing franchise.

Though, hilariously they also don't recognise that Disney's other actions, like supporting China, sheer greed, supporting trans-trenders and actual kiddie-fuckers, et cetera, are just as damaging to their brand and reputation, too.
Those 30 billion, well, no one is saying you can't spend them on wet work.wink-wink, nudge-nudge...

The way they handled it's advertising. They never hinted at that JCOM came before Star Wars. Hell mention it came out the same time as Tarzan and by the same author.
H.P. Lovecraft, decades-worth of Astounding Science Fiction and other pulps, and people still go so heavily for Burroughs.
Kinda sad.

Personally I would like to do an adaptation of one of the unauthorized sequels of the War of the Worlds, where Thomas Edison builds rocketships and electro-guns and takes the war to the aliens.

That, and a ton of Heinlein and Niven adaptations, and Science-Fiction bildungsroman adaptations, like Higher Education, to be done.

I'd try and turn Heinlein's Friday into a T.V. miniseries.
 
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Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Friday would be really, really hard to bring to any screen without either butchering it. I mean, it literally opens with her being gang-raped and casually critiquing the rapists' technique while internally monologing about the silly notion that she would care or have any emotional reaction whatsoever to being raped, which is a great way to establish Friday's abnormal, inhuman thinking processes but would be horrifying on-screen. Then add in all the torture which is going to be even more fun to watch. Actually having that stuff happen means the story's going to be put straight into the porn/guro category which is going to put massive limitations on selling it, and removing it removes much of the point of the story (exploring Friday's genetically engineered non-standard thinking processes). Definitely not Disney material.

Never mind how much Friday relies on internal monologues for much of its world-building, those are hard to put on screen without it seeming weird.
 

Atarlost

Well-known member
Those 30 billion, well, no one is saying you can't spend them on wet work.wink-wink, nudge-nudge...

It's cheaper and better PR to fire them rather than firing at them. If they have contracts that prevent me from firing them, start overseas branches to exile them to and give American Disney an excuse to no longer pander to a poison pill market.

Speaking of which, I'd proposed American market historicals, but it's probably a good idea to do some European market historicals as well. Something to try to revive healthy nationalism. Probably CGI so that the lips can be animated multiple times for each language I want to release them in.
 

Agent23

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Friday would be really, really hard to bring to any screen without either butchering it. I mean, it literally opens with her being gang-raped and casually critiquing the rapists' technique while internally monologing about the silly notion that she would care or have any emotional reaction whatsoever to being raped, which is a great way to establish Friday's abnormal, inhuman thinking processes but would be horrifying on-screen. Then add in all the torture which is going to be even more fun to watch. Actually having that stuff happen means the story's going to be put straight into the porn/guro category which is going to put massive limitations on selling it, and removing it removes much of the point of the story (exploring Friday's genetically engineered non-standard thinking processes). Definitely not Disney material.

Never mind how much Friday relies on internal monologues for much of its world-building, those are hard to put on screen without it seeming weird.
Ever read Altered Carbon?

That thing had some really, really nasty shit in it, and they still managed to adapt it and it did very well on Netflix.

Frankly, I just want a decent cyberpunk movie series with rightwing/libertarian leanings.

Monologue can be replaced with flashbacks, dialogue and infomercials.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Ever read Altered Carbon?

That thing had some really, really nasty shit in it, and they still managed to adapt it and it did very well on Netflix.

Frankly, I just want a decent cyberpunk movie series with rightwing/libertarian leanings.

Monologue can be replaced with flashbacks, dialogue and infomercials.
Yeah, they cut out the rape scenes in Altered Carbon where the guy was transferred to a menstruating female body and repeatedly tortured sexually. Three things:

1. Netflix isn't Disney. Disney tends more towards family-friendly entertainment, and so doesn't have as much leeway to put rape and torture into their programs as Netflix would for their adult section.

2. You can't really cut the rapes in Friday out and replace it with normal torture the way they did in Altered Carbon, the point of the rape in Altered Carbon was torturing a guy so replacing it with physical torture works. However, the point in Friday was to show how she thinks differently, replacing it with physical torture would completely ruin the scene since her monologue consists of variants of "Dang I'm lucky these idiots are raping me instead of torturing me, pain actually works but why do they think I'd break from having sex with half a dozen thugs?" Cutting it out butchers the entire point of the story, it's like changing the opener of A Time to Kill where instead of the little girl being raped she's just called slurs by the white supremecists, the story fails to work if the crime that set off the father isn't horrifying, Friday doesn't work unless the story shows how she reacts with complete aplomb to things normal women find horrifying.

3. Altered Carbon got canceled after two brief seasons and had pretty weak reviews, only 68% positive isn't blockbuster material.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Yeah, they cut out the rape scenes in Altered Carbon where the guy was transferred to a menstruating female body and repeatedly tortured sexually. Three things:

1. Netflix isn't Disney. Disney tends more towards family-friendly entertainment, and so doesn't have as much leeway to put rape and torture into their programs as Netflix would for their adult section.

2. You can't really cut the rapes in Friday out and replace it with normal torture the way they did in Altered Carbon, the point of the rape in Altered Carbon was torturing a guy so replacing it with physical torture works. However, the point in Friday was to show how she thinks differently, replacing it with physical torture would completely ruin the scene since her monologue consists of variants of "Dang I'm lucky these idiots are raping me instead of torturing me, pain actually works but why do they think I'd break from having sex with half a dozen thugs?" Cutting it out butchers the entire point of the story, it's like changing the opener of A Time to Kill where instead of the little girl being raped she's just called slurs by the white supremecists, the story fails to work if the crime that set off the father isn't horrifying, Friday doesn't work unless the story shows how she reacts with complete aplomb to things normal women find horrifying.

3. Altered Carbon got canceled after two brief seasons and had pretty weak reviews, only 68% positive isn't blockbuster material.
Um I meant the mind-transfer bestiality-related stuff.

A lot of people I know saw it and loved it, and all the body transfer stuff was probably quite cerebral for most audiences.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
I have no proof but somewhat suspect it was intentional sabotage. I've said before, Disney's corporate structure is really prone to faction fights and power grabs between various executives, and when you see them making really obvious, really stupid mistakes that sink a project, especially when the rest of the project seems good, my first suspicion is Executive A is making a power play to screw over Executive B's project.
Let me just confirm your suspicions: the film was originally green-lit by Dick Cook, who was an avid supporter of the project. During the lengthy production, Cook was ousted and replaced by Rich Ross, who made it his mission in life to ruin every single one of Cook's still-ongoing projects.

Disney's marketing department had also just been taken over by a pretty inexperienced guy (his background was exclusively in TV, with limited budgets). The department was in relative disarray, and it didn't help that director Andrew Stanton pretty much cajoled them into accepting some of his marketing preferences. Stanton is a good director, but a margeting genius he is not.

So, it was really malice compounded by incompetence...


The choice of titles is perplexing.
I still say they should've just gone for John Carter and the Princess of Mars. This is the same naming formula we see in many adventure stories, e.g. Indiana Jones. Put that title there in a vaguely art nouveau style, and have your marketing rely on the fact that this is the story that inspired all the modern-day legends eveybody knows. "From the author of Tarzan, the adventure that inspired Star Wars, Flash Gordon and Superman..."

(Yes, that bit about Superman is true. They literally came up with that while thinking "But what if instead of an Earth-man being super-strong on Mars, what if an alien man was super-strong on Earth...?")



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Anyway, speaking in general about this cool premise: I agree very much with what @Bear Ribs in particular has written. I would add the following notes:

1) The primary objective is to eliminate woke bullshit and the idiots who peddle it. Writing must be done by story-tellers, not by small-minded propagandists. Stories must entertain, impress or tantalise the audience, not attack, demean and accuse the audience. To this end, we'll fire a vast amount of morons, and black-list them and all their friends. Writers, actors, producers, managers... anyone who's gone "woke" will not be on our roster. Ever.

2) Instead, we hire the best, and we hire them not just to lead, but to teach. There will be an in-house "graduate school" for writers, and you on't get to write for Disney until you graduate that programme. Then, on to an apprentice position. Further learning on the job. Basically: you don't get to write solo until you've worked for Disney for a few years, and spend those years learning from the best.

3) Rules for history works: no presentism, no race changes, no gender changes, no bullshit of that sort in any way. If you make a series set in Mediaeval England, it's going to be about white people, and that's just how it is. Conversely, if we make a series set in pre-columbian America, we cast Native American actors and nobody else. Epics set in Ancient China won't feature Matt fucking Damon, either...

4) Rules for adaptations are much the same: we keep it as it is. If something really doesn't work nowadays (e.g. because the original was set in the '50s) we can tweak that, or we deliberately make it retro and set in the past. But there won't be race changes, gender changes or any other unwarranted alterations to any pre-existing character. You want to add a black character to a series? Great. Make one. Don't put a black "skin-suit" on an already exiting white character, because that's not only lazy, it's demeaning. It suggests blacks can only be interesting in roles made by and for whites. That's some low-bar bullshit and I resent it.

5) On that note: every single ongoing project that does feature any "woke" changes gets cancelled. Immediately. We'll consider re-booting it in two years.

6) I support the notion of a Witches of Karres series/trilogy/whatever. Man, I love that book.

7) In addition, rather than trying stories eminently unsuitable for Disney... if we're going with Heinlein, I'd focus on his juveniles. Adventure stories that young people can enjoy. Turn that into a bunch of animated series, and you've got a winning formula.

8) One other Heinlein story I'd really like to do is The Moon is a Harsh Mistress as a high-budhet one-season (mini-)series. No adaptaion bullshit, no "subverting the message". Anarchist libertarian revolution on the moon, with the revolutionaries depicted sympathetically and the government unsympathetically. (And we keep the tragic ending, with the new lunar government quickly becoming just as bad, and the hero going to seek a new frontier in the asteroid belt. This deliberately echoes the aftermath of the American revolution, and call of the frontier to liberty-minded people...)

9) Another project we're definitely doing: Tschai, Planet of Adventure. Either as a series of films, or as a high-budget series. It's the perfect sci-fi adventure story, you can't go wrong with this if you just resist the urge to "change" things.

10) And we'll be doing a bunch of history mini-series, kind of in the vein of the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, but not cenred on Indy, and less fixed in the limited period of that series. Think of a mini-series about the Barbary Wars, for instance. Stuff like that. Adventure against the backdrop of various historical events, with a considerable amount of (latent, not that in-your-face) educational value. Great for young people to watch.

11) This is important: we return to traditional animation. The googly-eyed 3D bullshit stops NOW.

12) No anime. No weeaboo shit, ever. It's fine if others do it, but we don't. Disney represents the tradition of Western animation.



...Other than that, I'll just leave it to qualified writers to pitch good ideas. Once the first two years are up and we can reconsider stuff Disney previously handled, we'll see about re-visiting some good stuff. Particularly, I think we should do the John Carter thing as a traditional Disney animated film, particularly adapting the first three books in this way.



And then, of course, there is Star Wars. We cancel everything on-going, and we de-canonise the entire "new continuity". None of it gets salvaged, it's just completely scrapped. It's literally relegated to just being the most expansive of the non-canonical "Infinities". No new works set in this continuity will get made ever again. For all intents and purposes, Rey et al. just cease to exist and will never be heard from again.

I'm not restoring the entire EU, because it's got quite a few turds. I don't like the Denningverse, but for the sake of those who do, I'll hire Christie Golden to write her Sword of the Jedi books after all. This will be aimed at providing a stepping stone to the future seen in the Legacy comics. This then completes that continuity, which includes all of the old EU prior to the Disney purchase of LucasFilm.

As far as "official" continuity is concerned, it'll basically be the old EU, but excluding the NJO series and everything after it chronologically, excluding The Clone Wars and anything directly tied to it, and also excluding a lot of the sillier odds and ends of the EU (like Jedi Prince books and stuff like that). Furthermore, we'll be turning a lot of it into high-budget series and films, some live-action and some animated. We're going to start with Tales of the Jedi, then Knights of the Old Republic, then Knight Errant, then the Darth Bane trilogy... you're getting the gist of it, no doubt. These new on-screen versions will be the official continuity, and whatever we don't adapt for th screen, we re-publish as tie-ins (in some cases perhaps a bit polished up, because the writing in the EU could be pretty uneven). We'll stay away from the OT era for now.

We're also going to put a vast load of money into a high-quality restoration of the original trilogy. Basically the despecialised edition, but with a huge budget to get the absolute best quality possible. We'll invite all of the major fan-editors who worked on this kind of thing to share their experience for this project, for which they'll receive both pay and credit. The restored versions will be the original, non-specialised version, but with production errors digitally corrected. A separate version will be released that includes some of the special edition alterations (particularly the actually justified stuff, like the Cloud City window views), but none of the uneccesary and intrusive stuff. The deleted scenes will also be digitally restored as a bonus feature.

Oh, and we'll release more Infinities as comics. For instance, George Lucas's ideas for the sequel trilogy will be adapted into a limited series, much like The Star Wars.
 

Earl

Well-known member
And we'll be doing a bunch of history mini-series, kind of in the vein of the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, but not cenred on Indy, and less fixed in the limited period of that series. Think of a mini-series about the Barbary Wars, for instance. Stuff like that. Adventure against the backdrop of various historical events, with a considerable amount of (latent, not that in-your-face) educational value. Great for young people to watch
Mmm, ideas:

-The Story of Thomas Alexandre Dumas, his rise and then downfall, very monte Cristo esque with Napoleon as the baddie because it’s true to life and because he makes a damn good baddie

- the Carreer of Ulyssus S Grant, told much like that of the Adams series from hardships in the pre war era to the Civil War to his noble yet fraught presidency, narrative told from Grant on his death bed

-Napoleons early carreer is a damn good adventure story on its own, just wouldn’t know where to cut it…


- going outside of the 19th century, a doomed tale of Constantinople would be fun if tragic. The lovers escape as the city burns and the Emperor goes down like a boss.

- a tale of Rome, a tale Of a young gallant officer who is corrupted by plotting and eventually takes the throne, only to lose it all.

- The Duel just a tv show would be pretty cool tbh.

- Tales of China during the Five Kingdom period, let’s see that period brought to the silver screen baby!

- I forget his name but there’s a very interesting story of a Indian Emperor who started out as a blood spotted conqueror beforea religous conversion turned him into a wise sage king, that be a fascinating thing to watch.
 

Atarlost

Well-known member
11) This is important: we return to traditional animation. The googly-eyed 3D bullshit stops NOW.
Even if there are somehow any traditional cell animators who transitioned to 3d and aren't long retired or dead they're so out of practice this is hopeless. There aren't any good traditional animators to poach either, at least not outside Japan which you say you don't want. It's all crap, done in something like Flash, or both. The googly eyes can be gotten rid of, but you can't have animators learning on the job doing feature films. The best you can do is use an artsy shader like RWBY, but with more polys because Rooster Teeth overestimated how much a flat cell shader hides the polygons.

And, honestly, Square-Enix has Donald, Goofy, and Mickey looking pretty good in 3D. Mostly procedural 3D that renders in real time on a game console even. You don't need to throw out the automation that's only really possible in 3D to have something that feels right.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
-The Story of Thomas Alexandre Dumas, his rise and then downfall, very monte Cristo esque with Napoleon as the baddie because it’s true to life and because he makes a damn good baddie
That's a great idea.

Of course, if we're going with that time period, my nr. 1 priority would be a series about the War in the Vendée, with the Catholic rebels as the heroes and the French revolutionaries depicted as the genocidal villains they were.


- I forget his name but there’s a very interesting story of a Indian Emperor who started out as a blood spotted conqueror beforea religous conversion turned him into a wise sage king, that be a fascinating thing to watch.
That's Ashoka the Great. The problem with that is that if you depict his life with any kind of accuracy, you get something categorically unsuitable for Disney.

Maye better to do a series about his grand-dad Chandragupta, who can more easily be depicted as more heroic figure (being essentially "the Indian Alexander").


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Even if there are somehow any traditional cell animators who transitioned to 3d and aren't long retired or dead they're so out of practice this is hopeless. There aren't any good traditional animators to poach either
I'm pretty sure there are loads and loads of people who can fucking draw. The reason it isn't being done isn't that there aren't people who can do it. There are people producing traditionally animated fan films, for free, with zero budget. The reason it isn't being done is that the alternatives are ultimately cheaper and require less talent, so that's what the corporations all go for.

My aim is to change that, because I believe that quality is a selling point in itself.
 

Earl

Well-known member
That's a great idea.

Of course, if we're going with that time period, my nr. 1 priority would be a series about the War in the Vendée, with the Catholic rebels as the heroes and the French revolutionaries depicted as the genocidal villains they were.
Fair, although that would be quite brutal and I don’t know if it work for Disney. A better idea for a more general depiction: Son and Daughter of a Liberal Aristocrat ( see why they didn’t go emigre) who got decapitated in the “Aristos are traitors” stage of the Revolution are now thrown into the streets and have to make there own way, becoming roving agents and adventuerers. Starts out as children in Paris, then hit abunch of spots across France, including the Vendee. Later seasons be adventures all over the world working for various people (including Napoleon at one point because that bastord is too good to pass up).


That's Ashoka the Great. The problem with that is that if you depict his life with any kind of accuracy, you get something categorically unsuitable for Disney.

Maye better to do a series about his grand-dad Chandragupta, who can more easily be depicted as more heroic figure (being essentially "the Indian Alexander").
Fair, although… who says we need to be acccurate. We can make up a hell of a lot in the name of story and just go “We’re doing the myth, not the man”. Sort of like Mulan.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Fair, although… who says we need to be acccurate. We can make up a hell of a lot in the name of story and just go “We’re doing the myth, not the man”. Sort of like Mulan.
I was thinking about this in the context of a pretty educational "historical adventures" series.

But now we're talking about, basically... "The Emperor's New Groove", but with Ashoka the Great as the lead character.

Which is... bonkers.

So bonkers that it might just work.
 

Earl

Well-known member
I was thinking about this in the context of a pretty educational "historical adventures" series.

But now we're talking about, basically... "The Emperor's New Groove", but with Ashoka the Great as the lead character.

Which is... bonkers.

So bonkers that it might just work.
I was thinking more in the vein of a epic drama and the like but if you want to make it the next animated hit, let’s roll.
 

Atarlost

Well-known member
I'm pretty sure there are loads and loads of people who can fucking draw. The reason it isn't being done isn't that there aren't people who can do it. There are people producing traditionally animated fan films, for free, with zero budget. The reason it isn't being done is that the alternatives are ultimately cheaper and require less talent, so that's what the corporations all go for.
I very strongly doubt this. Animation is not mere drawing. There are people doing 2d computer animation, but nobody is hand inking cellulose for the number of frames a major character appears in a feature film on the schedule of a feature film for free. You vastly underestimate the expense of good cell animation. It is not mere "fucking drawing." Pinochio (1940) cost 2.6 million dollars. The Great Dictator (1940) cost between 1.5 and 2 million dollars. Yes, other animated films had been cheaper, but all of the stuff that made Pinochio so expensive was stuff that is made cheap by 3d animation. Insisting on cell animation for an audience jaded by the spectacle that is cheap in 3d any animated movie that isn't at least Pinochio will not be seen as quality.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
I very strongly doubt this. Animation is not mere drawing. There are people doing 2d computer animation, but nobody is hand inking cellulose for the number of frames a major character appears in a feature film on the schedule of a feature film for free. You vastly underestimate the expense of good cell animation. It is not mere "fucking drawing." Pinochio (1940) cost 2.6 million dollars. The Great Dictator (1940) cost between 1.5 and 2 million dollars. Yes, other animated films had been cheaper, but all of the stuff that made Pinochio so expensive was stuff that is made cheap by 3d animation. Insisting on cell animation for an audience jaded by the spectacle that is cheap in 3d any animated movie that isn't at least Pinochio will not be seen as quality.
You are taking your own views as to be those of a wider audience. In that regard, you're as blind as a current-day Disney executive, and you clearly have no clue what audiences actually want.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Honestly, I don't feel like it matters if the image is drawn with a pencil or a mouse as long as the final product looks right. I certainly want to go with some things that look like traditional animation but as long as the CG can be made to look right it's fine. Beauty and the Beast was made using CAPS (Computer Animation Production System) and The Princess and the Frog was made using Toon Boom, both movies have a proper cel-animation look while being much less expensive to produce due to using a computer to do the heavy lifting.

However for whatever reason Disney seems to have given up the look entirely in favor of 3D rendering instead which I'd want to using more sparingly. No reason to abandon the 3D look entirely but no reason to abandon cel-shade either.
 

Ash's Boomstick

Well-known member
I notice no-one has mentioned the Marvel side of things, especially given how its been lambasted for the last two years with maybe one film being worthwhile.

As mentioned with Heinlein, his Juveniles would be a good ongoing series, each book is a season and people would always be interested in the small nods to an overall continuity in some books. It might be worthwhile doing some of the other books, but stay away from the less than comfortable ones like The Number of the Beast.
 

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