LindyAF

Well-known member
Lannister and Baratheon, though, and the rest of their lackeys?

Lannisters are of First Men descent as well (likely with Andal admixture). Baratheons are Targ bastard + First Men (possibly with subsequent Andal admixture).

...weirdly few of the actual great houses of Westeros are actually of Andal descent, for all that the Andals are said to have conquered Westeros, the only great houses IIRC that are actually Andal houses rather than First Men who converted are the Arryns and the Martells.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
Lannisters are of First Men descent as well (likely with Andal admixture). Baratheons are Targ bastard + First Men (possibly with subsequent Andal admixture).

...weirdly few of the actual great houses of Westeros are actually of Andal descent, for all that the Andals are said to have conquered Westeros, the only great houses IIRC that are actually Andal houses rather than First Men who converted are the Arryns and the Martells.

Most "conquests" in history are just a case of elite transfers of power, so we can presume this was the case in Westeros as well. FWIW asw., we're presuming the official histories of the great houses (which remember, are supposed to be an in-universe document) put forth by themselves are completely reliable. One noble family reigning circa 10,000 years is implausible enough, practically all those on a continent beggars belief ...
 

Jaenera Targaryen

Well-known member
Aegon the Uncrowned is instantly screwed. If he wasn't already screwed by Maegor and Balerion.

What would Maegor do to him, Rhaena and their children if they surrendered after a large volunteer squadron of Valyrian dragonriders?

Aegon would almost certainly be killed, maybe offered a chance to die with honor, i.e. suicide. Dunno about Rhaena, TBH, could go in various ways. The children...well, Maegor would be tempted to kill them, but they are legitimate Targaryen children, and with Valyria back, there are certain social rules to follow and taboos to respect. More on that in the future.

There would probably be quite a few female dragonriders in the volunteer squadron who'd definitely try to seduce Maegor. No lack of wives for him, lol.

Oh yes, he'd certainly be spoiled for choice there. He's a big, strong man, of pure stock with lots of land to hand out to his future children. Valyrian ladies will be flocking to him.

Would the Freehold actually send legions to help Maegor if he asked?

Officially? No, unless the Faith does something stupid like landing an army on Valyria, which is practically impossible. The Senate would turn a blind eye/wash their hands of any enterprising young men and women who hire mercenaries and take them to help Maegor put the Faith to the sword, though.

What would Jaenara Targaryen think of Visenya? (Given that Valyria returns when Visenya is still alive.)

Visenya (V): Staring contest?
Jaenera (J): Okay.
stare
stare
stare
stare
stare
stare

stare
stare
STARE
STARE


J: Friends?
V: How about more than friends?

I don't think Maegor would have a problem with giving Dark Sister back. He never used it after he got Blackfyre, and it was hung on the walls of his chambers in Dragonstone.

Not a problem; Jae has more attachment to Dark Sister anyhow.

What would happen to Alyssa and her remaining children then? Disinherited? Executed? Exiled? Chucked into the volcano?

Alyssa's probably in for a bad time. The kids though should be safe, barring someone trying to pull a stunt that gets caught in the crossfire.

You're thinking too small.

Cue Westeros drowning in blood as King's Landing and Oldtown burn.

True.

And I'm guessing the Dornish would get the 300+ dragon treatment for the death of Rhaenys and Meraxes.

Possible; unlike in this story, where their link to House Targaryen through Princess Daenerys (Aegon IV's daughter) to say nothing of the 20,000+ Dornish who died fighting for the Targaryens (including one of the Martells' own princes) washes away past sins, the Dornish of Maegor's day have nothing going for them.

Also, should it be Lady Freeholder Targaryen instead?

Lord or lady, it's all just translation convention. I consider the title as unisex or gender neutral in its High Valyrian form, much like their word for dragon.

And what of Essaria? Why has none of the Volantenes mentioned the fate of Essaria?

It's included in that vast expanse of land in Central Essos that the Dothraki overran, aka the Dothraki Sea, though, the Valyrians prefer to use Great Grass Sea instead. No need to legitimize what the Dothraki savages did to Sarnor, which ruled the region under Valyria's hegemony.

Lannister are First Men.
Baratheons, from a certain point of view, are First Men too - they are rebranded House Durrandon.
Lannisters are of First Men descent as well (likely with Andal admixture). Baratheons are Targ bastard + First Men (possibly with subsequent Andal admixture).

...weirdly few of the actual great houses of Westeros are actually of Andal descent, for all that the Andals are said to have conquered Westeros, the only great houses IIRC that are actually Andal houses rather than First Men who converted are the Arryns and the Martells.
Most "conquests" in history are just a case of elite transfers of power, so we can presume this was the case in Westeros as well. FWIW asw., we're presuming the official histories of the great houses (which remember, are supposed to be an in-universe document) put forth by themselves are completely reliable. One noble family reigning circa 10,000 years is implausible enough, practically all those on a continent beggars belief ...

They were originally First Men...but are they still First Men? Just look at the cultural differences between the Starks and the Lannisters/Baratheons. Not to mention this is a setting where it's established that blood does have literal power. There are hints in canon that the Baratheons may still have some power in their blood, but it's unclear if it's thanks to either or both their diluted Durrandon/Targaryen heritage. The Lannisters? They've got nothing, unless you count Jaime/(mostly) Cersei/Tyrion's tendency to mess things up. And which they inherited from Tywin, apparently.

The Starks though...

...they've probably got the most powerful blood (literally!) in the world after the Forty Families.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
Most "conquests" in history are just a case of elite transfers of power, so we can presume this was the case in Westeros as well. FWIW asw., we're presuming the official histories of the great houses (which remember, are supposed to be an in-universe document) put forth by themselves are completely reliable. One noble family reigning circa 10,000 years is implausible enough, practically all those on a continent beggars belief ...

Sure, that's my point there wasn't really the transfers of power that you'd expect. If you had Andal Kings and nobles ruling over mostly First Men peasants and the occasional lesser house, okay sure. But instead you generally have First Men kings converting, taking an Andal wife, and accepting a few Andal warlords into their service as vassals. That's typically what the conquerors do, not the conquered.

The Andal "conquest" would be like if during the Spanish conquest of Central and South America, Montezuma converted, Cortes swore fealty to him, and Montezuma then married a Spanish princess while remaining sovereign.

Even if we want to say that many of the great houses are exaggerating or fabricating their own First Men lineage, the fact that that's the lineage they choose to exaggerate and make claims about is pretty weird, frankly. Why would they be trying to frame themselves as the descendents of conquered First Men Kings rather than conquering Andal Kings, especially given that they follow the Seven? Like, shouldn't they be trying to claim descent from Hugor the Hill instead of Garth Greenhand?

Or for another example, it's unclear whether Lann the Clever was a First Man or an Andal, and if he was an Andal that'd make more sense with the general "Andal conquest" narrative, with the Casterly's perhaps being the First Men who the Lannisters replaced. But IIRC most maesters think he wasn't an Andal. And if it's the Lannisters trying to falsify their Andal founder as a First Man, then they see being a house descending from First Men as more prestigious than one descending from Andals, which isn't what we'd normally expect from Andal conquerers.

They were originally First Men...but are they still First Men? Just look at the cultural differences between the Starks and the Lannisters/Baratheons. Not to mention this is a setting where it's established that blood does have literal power. There are hints in canon that the Baratheons may still have some power in their blood, but it's unclear if it's thanks to either or both their diluted Durrandon/Targaryen heritage. The Lannisters? They've got nothing, unless you count Jaime/(mostly) Cersei/Tyrion's tendency to mess things up. And which they inherited from Tywin, apparently.

The Starks though...

...they've probably got the most powerful blood (literally!) in the world after the Forty Families.

While they've certainly intermarried with other families since the Andal Conquest, most of the other Great Houses were also First Men, and many of the lesser noble houses were also First Men in origin, although they probably have at least some Andal admixture.

The cultural differences are certainly there, but IIRC the North was always pretty culturally different. And a lot of the differences are stemming from religious differences, which could be explained by genuine conversion on the part of the First Men Lannisters.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
Sure, that's my point there wasn't really the transfers of power that you'd expect. If you had Andal Kings and nobles ruling over mostly First Men peasants and the occasional lesser house, okay sure. But instead you generally have First Men kings converting, taking an Andal wife, and accepting a few Andal warlords into their service as vassals. That's typically what the conquerors do, not the conquered.

The Andal "conquest" would be like if during the Spanish conquest of Central and South America, Montezuma converted, Cortes swore fealty to him, and Montezuma then married a Spanish princess while remaining sovereign.

The Conquest of Mexico is an interesting analogy, because most of the native elites who sided with the Spanish against the Aztecs did just what you said - they converted, intermarried with the Spanish nobility, and retained their positions, with the Viceroy slotting in where the Aztec Emperor had been. Of course, in the Westerosi situation the local populace wasn't devastated by plague and there were several independent kingdoms to deal with, not one.

We do know that the Andals did almost totally take over the Vale and the Riverlands, and apparently the migrating armies were greatly outnumbered by the FM (which IMO would logically lead to little more than skin-deep "Andalising" of the Southlands). The most important change seems to have been the mass conversion to the FOT7, which makes sense when you look at just how little the "Old Gods" religion offers believers.

Even if we want to say that many of the great houses are exaggerating or fabricating their own First Men lineage, the fact that that's the lineage they choose to exaggerate and make claims about is pretty weird, frankly. Why would they be trying to frame themselves as the descendents of conquered First Men Kings rather than conquering Andal Kings, especially given that they follow the Seven? Like, shouldn't they be trying to claim descent from Hugor the Hill instead of Garth Greenhand?

Lineage. Emphasising themselves as descendants of the First Men puts the idea across that they've ruled since before the beginning of recorded history and links them to the Long Night, which is Westeros' central myth. Similarly kings in medieval times would present themselves as the descendants of refugees from the Fall of Troy to link themselves to the great myth of the Classical Era and emphasise the length of their lines of descent.

As for Hugor of the Hill ... well, Andalos, like 99% of Essos, is a blank void of nothing where nobody lives. Not even the most hardcore FoT7 followers seem to view the literal holy land of their religion as anything other than an odd bit of historical trivia. Blame GRRM.

Or for another example, it's unclear whether Lann the Clever was a First Man or an Andal, and if he was an Andal that'd make more sense with the general "Andal conquest" narrative, with the Casterly's perhaps being the First Men who the Lannisters replaced. But IIRC most maesters think he wasn't an Andal. And if it's the Lannisters trying to falsify their Andal founder as a First Man, then they see being a house descending from First Men as more prestigious than one descending from Andals, which isn't what we'd normally expect from Andal conquerers.

What I'd suggest as a plausible explanation is that the story of Lann was backdated to the Age of Heroes, to, as I said, create the idea that Lannister rule stretched back to the time before history. IU history sources don't even know when the invasions took place - just a vague range of 6,000-2,000 years.
 

Buba

A total creep
The Andal conquest IMO has strong analogies with German "conquest" of Central Europe. Mecklemburg, Pommerania, Czechia, Silesian Duchies - all these were ruled by kings and dukes of local lineage, nobles a mix of Germanised locals and imports, all Christian and speaking German, belonging to the German cultural sphere, yet proud of their Slavic lineage.
Nevertheless speaking e.g. Pommeranian was considered uncouth and banned in public.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
The Andal conquest IMO has strong analogies with German "conquest" of Central Europe. Mecklemburg, Pommerania, Czechia, Silesian Duchies - all these were ruled by kings and dukes of local lineage, nobles a mix of Germanised locals and imports, all Christian and speaking German, belonging to the German cultural sphere, yet proud of their Slavic lineage.
Nevertheless speaking e.g. Pommeranian was considered uncouth and banned in public.

Martin's analogue seems to have been the Saxon conquest of England, though that was a lot more of an outright displacement than most other conquests.
 

Buba

A total creep
Martin's analogue seems to have been the Saxon conquest of England, though that was a lot more of an outright displacement than most other conquests.
Scholars are displacing one another on the assimilation versus replacement issue :)
 

BlackDragon98

Freikorps Kommandant
Banned - Politics
Aegon would almost certainly be killed, maybe offered a chance to die with honor, i.e. suicide.
What if this happens before he declares himself king? Like when he and Rhaena are still trapped at Crakehall.

Dunno about Rhaena, TBH, could go in various ways.
Maybe just put her under permanent house arrest?

The children...well, Maegor would be tempted to kill them, but they are legitimate Targaryen children, and with Valyria back, there are certain social rules to follow and taboos to respect. More on that in the future.
Probably just disinherited.

Oh yes, he'd certainly be spoiled for choice there. He's a big, strong man, of pure stock with lots of land to hand out to his future children. Valyrian ladies will be flocking to him.
Could he have more than one wife?

Or do dragons not tolerate rivals?

Officially? No, unless the Faith does something stupid like landing an army on Valyria, which is practically impossible. The Senate would turn a blind eye/wash their hands of any enterprising young men and women who hire mercenaries and take them to help Maegor put the Faith to the sword, though.
The Volunteer Army.
Gonna be a lot of noble houses of pure Valyrian descent with lots of dragonriders once the war is won, with all that land for Maegor to parcel out.

Visenya (V): Staring contest?
Jaenera (J): Okay.
stare
stare
stare
stare
stare
stare

stare
stare
STARE
STARE


J: Friends?
V: How about more than friends?
Visenya is bisexual?

I thought the only thing was that she didn't like Aegon.

She and Jaenera are definitely going to get along. They seems to be cut from the same cloth, both warriors and commanders.


Alyssa's probably in for a bad time.
The kids though should be safe, barring someone trying to pull a stunt that gets caught in the crossfire.
Execution? I guessing Jaehaerys, Alysanne, and Viserys are going to be disinherited.

Possible; unlike in this story, where their link to House Targaryen through Princess Daenerys (Aegon IV's daughter) to say nothing of the 20,000+ Dornish who died fighting for the Targaryens (including one of the Martells' own princes) washes away past sins, the Dornish of Maegor's day have nothing going for them.
Gonna be a lotta glass in Dorne when the flames of war die down.

Lord or lady, it's all just translation convention. I consider the title as unisex or gender neutral in its High Valyrian form, much like their word for dragon.
Makes sense.

It's included in that vast expanse of land in Central Essos that the Dothraki overran, aka the Dothraki Sea, though, the Valyrians prefer to use Great Grass Sea instead. No need to legitimize what the Dothraki savages did to Sarnor, which ruled the region under Valyria's hegemony.
Ok, i get this part.

But about Gogossos?

The city did well after the Doom and was only destroyed 77 years afterwards due to an oubreak of Red Death.

Have the Valyrians forgotten about the place?

The Starks though...

...they've probably got the most powerful blood (literally!) in the world after the Forty Families.
I have a bit of stuff planned for a fic where Maegor married a Stark girl (one of Torrhen's granddaughters).
The fic would be from the point of view of Maegor's son Torrhen, starting from Aegon's funeral.

 

Jaenera Targaryen

Well-known member
What if this happens before he declares himself king? Like when he and Rhaena are still trapped at Crakehall.

Maegor might be persuaded to just send them into exile. The Senate wouldn't really make hay over granting them a land title in the Great Grass Sea, though they'll be expected to participate in cleaning out the Dothraki.

Maybe just put her under permanent house arrest?


Probably just disinherited.

Both are possible.

Could he have more than one wife?

Or do dragons not tolerate rivals?

IIRC, while uncommon, Valyrians canonically tolerated polygamous marriages.

The Volunteer Army.
Gonna be a lot of noble houses of pure Valyrian descent with lots of dragonriders once the war is won, with all that land for Maegor to parcel out.

Yup.

Visenya is bisexual?

She might be ;)

I mean, she's already into incest, so what is bisexuality in comparison?

I thought the only thing was that she didn't like Aegon.

She did seem to care for him, it's just that they didn't see eye to eye on some issues. That, and there didn't seem to be any romance between them.

She and Jaenera are definitely going to get along. They seems to be cut from the same cloth, both warriors and commanders.

In more that just those, even. You will see in time.

Execution? I guessing Jaehaerys, Alysanne, and Viserys are going to be disinherited.

As a dragonlord, she'd be offered the courtesy of a dagger, or a glass of poisoned wine.

Gonna be a lotta glass in Dorne when the flames of war die down.

Yup. At least, in this scenario. The story proper? Not so much.

Makes sense.

But about Gogossos?

The city did well after the Doom and was only destroyed 77 years afterwards due to an oubreak of Red Death.

Have the Valyrians forgotten about the place?

No, it'll be addressed in the future. For now, let's just say the place was a dump even by Valyrian standards.

I have a bit of stuff planned for a fic where Maegor married a Stark girl (one of Torrhen's granddaughters).
The fic would be from the point of view of Maegor's son Torrhen, starting from Aegon's funeral.

Now that would be very interesting. Fire and ice...IIRC, the point where you really should start fearing a Targaryen wasn't when they were roaring mad. It's when they're so angry they become calm, cold, and calculating.

In short, when they stop acting like an angry Human, and more like a spiteful magical reptile.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Good chapter.Fun thing - Valyrians could take their sweet time with waiting for revenge on Westeros,Lys and Tyrosh.They have nothing to go,and nothing to defend themselves.Unless they decide to sail West.
I would do so,if i was elite member living in one of those places.

I hope,that Ned would have enough brain to not let North burn becouse Bobby is his friend.And Jon is ace which could save North.

Probably only place when nothing change - Braavos.For them it is bussines as usual.

P.S could you made one chapter about Others changing their diapers and deciding to stay when they are ?
 
Chapter 3

Jaenera Targaryen

Well-known member
Disclaimer: I do not own A Song of Ice and Fire it is owned by G.R.R. Martin.

Return of Valyria

Chapter 3

"There is nothing really for us to discuss on what choice to make." Aerarro said as he sat with his fellow Triarchs of Volantis in a private room. "Having already publicly submitted before our Valyrian counterpart, we must forge on, or lose face and have our authority undermined by stepping back. And that's the least that can happen."

"But, even if you say that," Tychano said. "To just surrender three hundred years of independence and become a Valyrian vassal…"

"Not to mention we have only their word as proof of them being Valyria returned…" Vargano muttered halfheartedly.

"Proof?" Aerarro echoed. "Have you looked up at the sky? Did you not kneel with the rest of us before that dragon that may very well dwarf even Aegon the Conqueror's great beast?"

"I know, I know." Vargano said with a sigh. "There's no doubting it, at least not for us here at Volantis, and in the surrounding settlements. Word can spread surprisingly quickly, and they're close enough doubters can come to the city with little difficulty to see the truth for themselves. But…"

"The rest of Essos?" Aerarro asked, and Vargano nodded. "They'll have to learn and accept it soon enough. Otherwise, the Valyrians are going to smash the fact of the matter into their heads."

Tychano snorted. "Such a crude way of saying it, Aerarro." He said before sighing. "But I suppose it does get the point across very cleanly."

"Speaking of which," Aerarro began. "You mentioned our independence earlier, didn't you? If so, then we have nothing to worry about. Even before the Doom, the Freehold allowed us to govern ourselves and our lands without interference. Oh, we had to allow them to move armies and ships over our lands and through our waters, but that was always to the good. And had we need of it, we could and did receive aid from Valyria in times of war and crisis. They did not ask us for levies of men and horses, or for tribute much less tax revenue in gold or in kind, only that we remember who are, and what comes with it: The Eldest Daughter of Valyria. And we are. We always have been. And ever since the Doom, we are the only ones to take pride in who we are, and where our ancestors came from."

Aerarro paused and looked at each of his fellow Triarchs in the eye. "You understand, don't you?" he asked. "We might not look the part, and our politics don't always match, but all of us, our relatives, and our closest associates, they are all of the Old Blood. The blood of Valyria…so how much in the end will really change, should we acknowledge Valyria's hegemony once more?"

There was a profound silence for several moments. It was an undeniable fact, for all that the Triarchs had less Valyrian features than others did. Tychano was black-haired, and both Vargano and Aerarro had dark-brown hair. Only in the eyes did the truth of their heritage show, with their purple irises, and both Aerarro and Vargano knew that Tychano's daughters by his third wife all received Valyrian gold-silver hair from their mother, who was also of the Old Blood.

"I suppose there is a point there." Vargano finally said with a sigh. "But, just as we received help from Valyria, should Valyria have need of us, then we are expected to come to their aid. And from what we know, only the Valyrian homeland was saved from the Doom. The Dothraki still reign unchecked through the Dothraki Sea, and the Ghiscari remain free in the lands to the east of Slaver's Bay. There is also Qarth, and Yi Ti, and…"

"What remains of Valyria is what really matters." Aerarro interrupted. "The capital, and its surrounding cities under the shadow of the Fourteen Flames. There, the collected lore, wisdom, history and knowledge of Valyria are kept and preserved, no more than that, they live there, and from there can grow anew to reach across all Essos once more. It might take longer than our lifetimes, but it will happen. And the dragonlords are all there. Think about it: The Westerosi, and their entire continent's worth of kingdoms and petty lordships, all bent knee before the last remnant of Valyria, with just three dragons. Above us, there are forty. One from each of the great dragonlord families. It stands to reason there are more, far more. While they will need boots on the ground to hold conquered territory and make them worth a damn, those dragons, while not ensuring a quick victory and re-conquest of Essos, guarantee it, sooner or later."

Vargano and Tychano shared guarded glances, and Aerarro folded his hands on the table. "Though," he said. "That's just it, isn't it? Valyria will attempt to reconquer Essos and restore the Freehold to its former glory, but given the state of things, that can only be done by force. Not just by dragons, but with men and armies and fleets of ships. In short, a war on a scale not seen since the Century of Blood, and our ancestors' attempt to rebuild the Freehold."

Aerarro paused and narrowed his eyes. "That's what you're really worried about, isn't it?" he asked. "After all, it was in the wake of that devastating conflict that the elephants were born, in opposition to the tigers. And you two are of the elephants."

There was a profound silence. "And your point is?" Tychano snapped. "Those wars were fought for little gain. So many lives lost and ruined, and for what? Power? Wealth? Prestige? All of which could be gained through peaceful trade than through meaningless war."

"Then shall we return to the meeting with the Valyrians, and inform them of our decision not to support their coming campaign?" Aerarro asked.

Again, there was a profound silence, and Aerarro nodded. "No, we will not." He said. "We cannot. Maintaining the status quo, or attempting to do so will not profit our city at the least, and at worst, bring only fire and ruin upon it should the Freehold come to see us as an enemy. We cannot stand against Valyria. The Rhoynar tried, and we all know what happened to them."

"…the Usurper managed to do it in Westeros." Tychano halfheartedly offered.

"Only because the Targaryens of today had lost their dragons." Aerarro countered. "Had they still their dragons, the Usurper and his confederates would have burned…assuming they could have gotten going in the first place to begin with. And Valyria returned has more dragons, and greater, than even the Targaryens at the height of their past glory had. Come to think of it, from what I could hear from the dragonlords earlier, one of the Targaryens of the past is among them…the Usurper's living on borrowed time. And so will we, unless we choose to aid Valyria in achieving their goals."

"In any case," Vargano began with a conciliatory tone. "It's not likely we will come out of this with nothing to show for it. We are the Eldest Daughter of Valyria. We were the first to be founded, and are the biggest and most populous of the Free Cities. And yet we play second fiddle to Braavos, the Bastard Daughter. But we can change that. We side with Valyria, and we can become first among her daughters once more. Set things right, put them the way they should be."

"Playing second fiddle to Valyria?" Tychano asked.

"I can live with that." Aerarro said.

"So can I." Vargano said with a nod. "So can the rest of the Old Blood. And that's all that really matters when it comes to making the decisions for our great city."

Tychano looked unhappy. "At the very least," Vargano said. "Let us hear more of Valyria's plans for the future, and what they would offer us."

"And if they should prove unsatisfactory?" Tychano asked.

Vargano shrugged. "I doubt they would be." He said. "But, cooperation does offer a path to negotiate more gains for our city from the Freehold."

Aerarro nodded in agreement, and looking back and forth between him and Vargano, Tychano sighed and nodded. In any case he was outvoted, and as Aerarro had all but outright said earlier, they didn't really have a choice.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As expected, the dragonlords present in Volantis returned to the Grand Audience Chamber to resume their discussion. Again, the Triarchs of Volantis sat at a raised table on the ground floor, along with their Valyrian counterpart.

"Honored Triarch," Aerarro began once the meeting had been called to order. "We have had time to consider the implications of this monumental event in the history of the world. And while we understand and accept the expectations upon us, it would be more…reassuring, were we to hear of Valyria's plans for the future."

"An understandable request, Honored Triarch." Laeraenar said with a nod. "Very well, thus far nothing concrete has been set, however before we departed from the homeland, the Assembly had passed a motion establishing a mandate for the Freehold to reestablish Valyrian hegemony and with it, rule of law and time-honored tradition to the lands of Essos."

Laeraenar paused with a smile. "The latter is quite vague," he admitted. "But the former is rather clear, is it not?"

"So they are, Honored Triarch." Aerarro said. "The next question would logically be on how the Freehold intends to do so."

"Again," Laeraenar said. "Nothing is set in stone, though a war plan is being prepared even as we speak to be presented for the Assembly to vote funds for. Given the limitations upon us, our initial goals will have to be limited as well."

"Limitations, Honored Triach?" Vargano asked.

Laeraenar nodded. "Indeed," he said. "As you already know, only the Valyrian Peninsula itself, along with the Lands of the Long Summer to the north, are currently under the Freehold's control. Unfortunately, this means a large portion of our army is gone, and more pressingly, the economy itself has taken a hit with the loss of virtually all our territories to the east, and our subject kingdoms and tributaries to the north."

"Yes, I see." Vargano said with a nod. "That understandably limits what can be done, at least in the short-term. War would require men to fight it, and not just dragons."

"And war consumes men and gold like nothing else." Tychano said.

"Correct, but at times war is necessary." Aerarro said. "Today is one such time."

"Well said, Honored Triarch." Laeraenar said. "Our plans at present call for the greater part of the Freehold's fleet and armies to strike north and east, out of the Lands of the Long Summer, and seizing the coasts of Slaver's Bay, and the islands therein, obtain a stepping stone from which to strike into Ghiscar. That shall be the limit of our advance east, at least for now. Qarth will have to wait for another time, once the Freehold has husbanded and grown her strength further."

"Understandable," Aerarro said. "And smashing the New Ghiscari Empire, along with their tributaries in the Slaver Cities, would strike a resounding historical note, would it not?"

"Indeed," Laeraenar said.

"And to the west?" Tychano said. "How would the Freehold…handle, matters in this region of the world?"

"In that Volantis will play a crucial role." Laeraenar said with a smile. "Of course, we will provide assistance, as per the mutual obligations Volantis and the Freehold have to each other, and Volantis shall receive great reward for its contributions."

"How so?" Vargano asked.

"Volantis and its outlying cities occupy a strategic position, unquestionably controlling the Rhoyne's mouth, and all the Rhoyne as far north as the Selhoru river." Laeraenar said. "This would allow for supplies and reinforcements to be gathered in bulk, and shipped as needed up the river to the expected battlefields to the north, with relative ease."

"…the Freehold intends to seize the Rhoyne, does it not?" Aerarro asked, his eyes alight.

"Indeed," Laeraenar said. "Historically, ever since the Second Spice War all the Rhoyne as far as Dagger Lake was Volantene territory. The Freehold would restore it to Volantis, and in so doing, through a trusted ally indirectly gain control of the quickest, and most reliable route for trade and non-magical communications across Central and Southern Essos."

"And Dagger Lake?" Aerarro asked.

"Dagger Lake was again, historically, directly under the Freehold's rule, if only to provide an objective boundary between Volantis and her younger sisters of Qohor and Norvos." Laeraenar said. "To restore as such would be the Freehold's goal."

"Trade through the Rhoyne is less than it ought to be, however." Tychano said. "The shadow of the Dothraki, the constant, low boil of the fighting in the Disputed Lands, and the pirates infesting Dagger Lake, hang heavy over the Rhoyne."

"That is true," Laeraenar said. "However, even we have not the means to decisively clean out the Dothraki savages infesting the Great Grass Sea. It's much too big, and will take decades if not a few generations of committed effort to clean out, resettle, and stabilize the region to do so. A series of fortifications across the hinterland, as a means of allopathic treatment of the Dothraki disease, will have to suffice for the foreseeable future."

There was a ripple of amusement at that, both among the Valyrians and the Volantenese. "A similar set of fortifications will have to do for the troubles in the Disputed Lands," Laeraenar said. "At least until we can free up enough forces and resources to bring Lys, Tyrosh, and Myr to heel. Lys and Tyrosh in particular, have a debt in blood to pay. Religious hysteria at our apparent destruction or not, the slaying of dragonlords cannot go unpunished. Such would set a bad precedent, and akin to laying seeds for future troubles."

"As you say, Honored Triarch." Aerarro cautiously agreed.

"In any case," Laeraenar said. "Lys, Tyrosh, and Myr should be brought to heel much quicker than the Dothraki, perhaps in two decades at most, but likely sooner than that. Once that's done, while leftovers of the centuries of fighting over the Disputed Lands need to be stamped out first, the problem born of the Disputed Lands existing in the first place would be effectively solved."

There were nods at that. "And the pirates of Dagger Lake?" Vargano asked.

"The easiest to deal with." Laeraenar said. "A thorough sweep of its shores, and sending a fleet into the lake through the Rhoyne, should be enough to burn out the filth. Dragons as well, to strike fear into the wretches."

Again, there were nods and murmurs of agreement among Valyrians and Volantenes both. "And what of Qohor and Norvos?" Tychano asked.

"They would be brought under Valyrian hegemony as well." Laeraenar said. "The Upper and Little Rhoyne have historically been under Norvos, along with Eastern Andalos. That will not change. The same would go for Qohor and its domains along the Qhoyne and the Darkwash. That shall be the extent of our plans for the foreseeable future, in the west and the north. With Norvos and Qohor once more under Valyrian hegemony, the Freehold through its allies will have indirect control of the northern caravan route, from Andalos in the west, through Norvos and Qohor, and thence east to Sarnor, Yi Ti, and beyond."

"The question now is," Vargano said. "If Norvos and Qohor will remember where their loyalties should lie."

"You do not think they will?" Laeraenar asked.

"They were among those who opposed the Freehold's resurrection during the Century of Blood." Vargano said. "And even before then, they were founded by religious dissidents. They are far from the homeland, and compared to Volantis, the distance insulates them and may even encourage them to drift away from how things ought to be."

"That is not necessarily a bad thing," Laeraenar said. "But I do see your point. However, if that is the case, then Norvos and Qohor must be brought to heel…but only after the Rhoyne is once more under Volantene governance."

The Triarchs of Volantis looked at each other. Vargano nodded slowly, and Aerarro did so with more spirit. Finally, Tychano nodded, even more slowly than Vargano. They turned back to Laeraenar.

"We find the Freehold's plans, if still under development, to be without criticism, at least as far as generalities go." Vargano said. "Speaking on behalf of my fellows, Volantis will participate as needed to reestablish Valyrian hegemony over Essos."

Laeraenar nodded. "That is most gratifying to hear, Honored Triarch." He said. "I will inform my fellow Triarchs and the Assembly at the earliest possible opportunity."

"We mustn't be careless, however." Aerarro warned. "Braavos will not stand idly by, and neither will Lys, Tyrosh, and Myr. Pentos has no choice but to follow Braavos' lead, though it may be possible for Lorath to stay neutral. Indeed, should Norvos and Qohor be brought to heel, then Lorath may swing our way following some effort with diplomacy."

"Thus gaining us a foothold on the Shivering Sea, and a sea route to Sarnor." Laeraenar said with a nod. "But that is still far in the future."

"Yes, of course." Aerarro said. "And finally, there is the Usurper in the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. Their significant naval strength aside, barring the Freehold's legions Westerosi armies are the best in the known world. It would be troublesome if they managed to land an army or two here on Essos, to oppose us."

"Would they now?" Laeraenar asked.

"The Usurper's ancestor," Aerarro said. "One of the Storm Kings, sent an army to oppose us during the Century of Blood. He might be inclined to do the same, given how much he despises our people, or at least the Targaryens, calling them 'dragonspawn'."

Laeraenar blinked, and then burst out laughing. The Volantenes could only watch as the other dragonlords laughed uproariously. "Lord Freeholder Targaryen," one dragonlord asked after a few moments, and wiping at his eyes. "What say you to that?"

"Dragonspawn?" Jaenera echoed with a grin. "Truly? How utterly unimaginative. The Ghiscari were calling us that for thousands of years, the Andals of Andalos called us that for nearly as long, and the Rhoynar called us that over a thousand years ago. But what can we expect? Andals…"

Jaenera trailed off with a roll of her eyes, more laughter breaking out among the dragonlords as a result.

One of the dragonlords sitting at the front, and thus of the top ten of the dragonlord families rose to his feet. "Dragonlord Jacaeron Goninarys is acknowledged." Laeraenar said.

"So what if the Andal King sends an army to oppose us?" Jacaeron asked. "If that is the case, then we will simply crush them, along with their misguided allies, and then advancing forward bring Valyria's wayward daughters to heel. It might take time, years, possibly decades, but our victory is inevitable. There is no reason to fear. Furthermore, should the Andal King or his heirs dare to continue to defy us, then it is but a short distance across the Narrow Sea, to their capital at King's Landing. A few dragons ought to remind them that their victory over their betters was only a matter of circumstance, of Aenar Targaryen's line losing their dragons. Let them know fear. Let them know what it means to challenge the Dragonlords of Valyria, and the greatest nation in the known world!"

Applause erupted from across the dragonlords, and with a bow, Jacaeron sat back down. "Yes, that is certainly true." Laeraenar said with a slow nod. "If need be, examples can always be made to remind the Andals of the need to know and stay in their places."

"And if they should not remain in their places?" Tychano softly asked.

Laeraenar's violet eyes glittered, and despite themselves the Triarchs of Volantis shuddered from an inexplicable feeling of terror. "Then," the Valyrian Triarch said menacingly. "The Andals will just have to be made to stay in their places."
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As the meeting came to a close, the dragonlords were shown to where manses across Old Volantis had been prepared for their use. The Old Blood of Volantis was divided into many houses and families, and of those, many owned multiple residences, and while kept in good repair, not all were in use. And those that were not had been quickly refurbished and provided for the dragonlords' use, in exchange for a measure of prestige that would allow the owners of said manses to claim in the future that they had hosted a dragonlord or more in the past.

Jaenera's manse was surprisingly large, a rectangular, two-floor affair with a pair of wings extending sideways from the middle of the main building. A high outer wall surrounded the outer grounds, which featured fresh, clean flowing water, cleanly-kept grass, and neat lines of flowering bushes. The path leading to the manse from the gate had a fountain in the center, decorated by a sculpture of a woman who had a fish's tail in the place of legs.

"What is that?" Jaenera thought with revulsion as she passed it by. "Some kind of beast from the flesh pits of Gogossos? Flames of the Fourteen, what have those madmen been up to in the past four hundred years without Valyria's firm hand keeping them in check?"

Entering the manse, the dragonlord was greeted by several slaves, and a freedman working as their overseer. "Welcome, my lady." The overseer said. "And I must say it is an honor to meet one of the dragonlords of Valyria."

"Indeed," Jaenera said, unfastening her red cloak and handing it to a slave. The slave took it with a bow, and Jaenera advanced further into the manse, the overseer following behind her. "Does the manse have an armory?"

"Yes, but it is for the guards' use." The overseer replied. "We have prepared an armor stand and racks for your weapons in an adjoining room within your quarters, my lady."

"I see. Most thoughtful…my thanks."

"I am honored by your praise, my lady."

Jaenera made a noncommittal grunt. "And where would my quarters be?" she asked.

"I would be honored if you would follow my lead, my lady." The overseer said.

"Very well."

The man led Jaenera to her quarters, which were lavishly if impersonally furnished, and included a pair of slaves waiting to attend to her. Shown to the personal armory, Jaenera placed her sword and daggers on waiting racks, and unclipping her helmet placed it on top of the armor stand. Her enameled vambraces followed, placed on the same rack, along with her hauberk followed by her greeves.

The jacket of padded leather she wore under her armor was hung on a hook nearby, and left in a common but serviceable shirt and trousers of linen, Jaenera made to leave. "Shall this one guide this one's lady to her bath, or would this one's lady wish to dine first?" a slave asked.

"…a bath first." Jaenera said. "But before even that, I'd like to see the collection of clothes my hosts prepared for me."

"As this one's lady commands."

Guided to her bedroom, Jaenera was shown to an impressively-stocked walk-in closet, though the overelaborate and even gaudy dresses and gowns therein were something of a disappointment. Thankfully, there were a few, simpler if still fine clothes inside, so it wasn't a complete failure in the end.

Placing the selected clothes in the arms of a slave, the collared woman bowed. "This one's lady has made a most fine selection." She said. "Would this one's lady wish for this one to guide this one's lady to her bath?"

"Yes."

"This one is honored."
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A warm and gently-fragrant bath later and Jaenera emerged refreshed and in clean clothes. A sleeveless dress of white silk that hung down to her ankles was worn over linen undergarments, followed a plain tunic of white linen with long sleeves and again reaching down to her ankles. A sash of red silk was belted at the waist, and tying back her gold-silver hair with a silken band, Jaenera had a slave to guide her to her evening meal.

"Lord Ormonnis apologizes for not being able to attend to you this evening, my lady." The overseer said with a deep bow. "He asks for your indulgence, with only the excuse that your arrival on short notice has barely given him time to properly honor your arrival. He does hope, however, that he would be able to attend to you more properly tomorrow morning?"

"I would be honored if my host would be able to join me for breakfast tomorrow." Jaenera said politely. "And it is of no concern. To have this fine manse put at my disposal…Lord Ormonnis is most generous. I am most grateful, and would even be more so if you could pass on my thanks."

"I would be honored to do so, my lady."

"By the way," Jaenera said. "Would it be possible to know of Lord Ormonnis' full name?"

"Of course, my lady." The overseer said with another bow. "His lordship has the honor of bearing the name of Thoreo Ormonnis, of the line of General Brachyros Iranohr."

"I see…a general…I would like to see some reference materials on the history of my host's family, after I finish my meal."

"Of course my lady, it will be done."

Jaenera nodded, and with another bow the overseer left. Turning back to her meal, Jaenera held back a sigh at the overwhelming repast offered to her tonight. A pile of roasted pork chops rested on a silver platter, along with a rich, cheese-based soup of onions, peas, and carrots, resting in a deep bowl of fired porcelain from Yi Ti. There was plenty of bread, freshly baked from an oven, and a wide selection of wines.

Too rich a fare for her, at least since her brother left for Dragonstone twelve years ago by her reckoning, though given how the world had changed, that was actually four hundred years ago now. Since then, she'd subsisted on simpler fare, or at least with smaller servings than tonight.

Selecting two wines, one red and one white, Jaenera instructed for them to be watered down to prevent her from getting drunk too quickly, and taking a loaf of bread broke it before tearing off a piece to start her dinner with. "Volantis is ours, as it should be." She thought as she mixed olive oil and vinegar in a small saucer, her mind wandering back to the meeting earlier. "But it's less than it should be. And the other Free Cities just might get in our way. What a pain…then again, I'm a soldier, so I shouldn't complain. Fighting is what I'm paid to do, after all."

On that thought, Jaenera poked her bread into the oil and vinegar mixture, and placing it into her mouth began to chew.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A/N

'Dragonspawn' is such a blasé insult, considering how long Valyria's been around (~5000 years). I doubt they, or the dragonlords, have not been called that by their many enemies over the millennia. So sadly – well, not really – Robert's favorite insult is just a tired, old joke for the dragonlords, and only makes him and his fellow Andals look like a comedy in Valyrian eyes.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Dragons could not hold territory,but burn it.They are kind of tactical nukes which could be reused.
Which mean,that they are ideal to destroy cities,big armies and enemy in the open.In other worlds, Braavos,free cities,KingsLanding are vulnerable.Dothraki too,they could not hide on steppe.
But most of Westeros would be relatively safe,especially North.
 

Jaenera Targaryen

Well-known member
But most of Westeros would be relatively safe,especially North.

If Ned plays his cards right, then the North wouldn't have to worry about having to face off against Valyria at all. As mentioned in passing, the Forty Families agree that Aerys and Rhaegar both got theirs. If not for Tywin murdering Aegon and Rhaenys just to make himself look big and bad, that would have been the end of the matter.

As diluted as their blood had become, they were still Targaryens. One of the Forty Families of Valyria. And no one makes an example of any of the Forty Families. Doing so shames their whole nation, tarnishes their sovereignty, and dilutes their imperium (for lack of a better word for supreme power/authority). Tywin Lannister and his ilk need to be taught their place, with extreme prejudice if need be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ATP

BlackDragon98

Freikorps Kommandant
Banned - Politics
If Ned plays his cards right, then the North wouldn't have to worry about having to face off against Valyria at all. As mentioned in passing, the Forty Families agree that Aerys and Rhaegar both got theirs. If not for Tywin murdering Aegon and Rhaenys just to make himself look big and bad, that would have been the end of the matter.

As diluted as their blood had become, they were still Targaryens. One of the Forty Families of Valyria. And no one makes an example of any of the Forty Families. Doing so shames their whole nation, tarnishes their sovereignty, and dilutes their imperium (for lack of a better word for supreme power/authority). Tywin Lannister and his ilk need to be taught their place, with extreme prejudice if need be.
I bet the "Rains of Castamere" will be played as dragons destroy Casterly Rock.

Visenya once said that the rock was impregnable to dragon attack during the Conquest, but I think what she meant was that the 3 dragons they had at the time couldn't make a dent.

I wonder what 300+ dragons would do to the Rock?

A puddle of molten rock and gold? With essence of Lannister?
 

Navarro

Well-known member
I bet the "Rains of Castamere" will be played as dragons destroy Casterly Rock.

Visenya once said that the rock was impregnable to dragon attack during the Conquest, but I think what she meant was that the 3 dragons they had at the time couldn't make a dent.

I wonder what 300+ dragons would do to the Rock?

A puddle of molten rock and gold? With essence of Lannister?

Casterly Rock is an entire mountain, so melting it all with dragonfire is something Valyrians in canon don't seem to have the ability to do. The real way to take it down w/ dragons is to fill it with smoke and either kill all the defenders via lack of air or force them to surrender.
 

Buba

A total creep
If Ned plays his cards right, then the North wouldn't have to worry about having to face off against Valyria at all.
I know that the timing is off, but I giggled behind my hand as I imagined that RLJ is true and Ned unleashes his sick diplomatic skills while negotiating non-burning with Lady Freeholder Jaenera i.e. holds a happily gurgling baby-Jon by the ankles and waves him about:
"Look see! Targ baby! Not hurt! Pudgy even!"
 

Jaenera Targaryen

Well-known member
I know that the timing is off, but I giggled behind my hand as I imagined that RLJ is true and Ned unleashes his sick diplomatic skills while negotiating non-burning with Lady Freeholder Jaenera i.e. holds a happily gurgling baby-Jon by the ankles and waves him about:
"Look see! Targ baby! Not hurt! Pudgy even!"

That said, Catelyn Stark is going to be an issue. Well, the fact that she's married to a Stark and thus technically no longer a Tully means she probably gets a pass, but she does have relatives in Riverrun. And Hoster was pretty much a self-interested participant in BLAST, maybe even long before Robert's Rebellion even.

Strategic marriages aimed at isolating the Targaryen power base in King's Landing from Central, Northern, and Eastern Essos? That a key member of the alliance even before the rebellion was a matrilineal Targaryen descendant and thus has a legitimate (after the patrilineal) claim to the Iron Throne? Yeah, if it sounds like a sewer rat and looks like a sewer rat...
 

Buba

A total creep
It is complicated.
STAB is one thing - IMO it began as a nebulous mix of self-defence pact againt Aerys' Crazy on one hand (maybe Steffon, Aerys' cousin and ex-BFF, was the driving force here?), and a coterie wishing to break into the royal patronage system hogged by Tywin (I see Jon, Hoster and Rickard all as candidates for spiritus movens here).

The rebellion is all Targ - it was caused by the actions of the two Mad Rapists young and old. It was them who transformed a mutual navel gazing self admiration group out for more Government Contracts/Post into a "Defund the Targs!" self defence riot by the Lord Paramount Lives Matter movement. Hard to blame STAB for revolting here ...

The murder of Elia and her children is yet another thing - here clearly the guilty party is Tywin, with STAB being guilty by association/not protesting (too loudly). And here the degree of post-murder accomplicity would run down from Robert "I see nothing but Dragonspawn" Baratheon -> Jon Arryn (who - besides endorsing, as I imagine, the Bobby-Cersei match, admittedly lost TWO heirs to Aerys inside half a year) -> Tully -> down to Stark.
Also, at the time of the rebellion Robert was a dumb, thinking with his little head jock (no change over the next 15 years, BTW), with Jon and maybe Hoster being its brains. Ned was 18-19 and definitely no come again-Bismarck or Talleyrand or Metternich.

What I am trying to say is that IMO the main "crime" is Elia and kids, not the rebellion, and that there are mitigating circumstances for all of STAB, albeit of different weight, with Baratheon and Arryn being deepest in the shit that Tywin made.
 
Last edited:

Jaenera Targaryen

Well-known member
Pretty much, yes. The Valyrians won't argue Aerys and Rhaegar got what they deserved, hell, Jae would probably have sent assassins after them herself, had Valyria returned a decade or so earlier. They were stains on Targaryen honor, black marks even worse than the likes of Baelor the Foolish, Aegon the Despot, or Aegon the Usurper.

But...baby Aegon and little Rhaenys...they had not nothing to do with their father and grandfather's madness. They were killed simply so Tywin could soothe his wounded pride, and to buy favor with Fat Robert. Then Fat Robert for all that he claimed to have gone to war for justice went and did nothing to punish such brutality, and the supposedly honorable and noble Jon Arryn did likewise.

...okay, enough pulling on the heartstrings. Politically and objectively-speaking, all of that had sound reasonings. But that still wouldn't be enough to calm the Senate's anger, considering the dominance of the Forty Families.

Basically, think Caesar arriving in Alexandria planning to arrest Pompey, only to find him murdered by the Ptolemies.



Pompey might have been a political criminal, but he was still an incumbent Roman Consul, and a Roman citizen. Foreigners (and more importantly, Roman clients) killing him outside of the Roman judicial process was a colossal faux pas.

Aegon and Rhaenys were from a degraded line, but they were still legitimate children of one of the Forty Families. They were de facto Valyrian citizens, with the rights and protections thereof, to say nothing of patrician taboos.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top