Real Life Regime(s) Most Similar to the Imperium of Man

Archinist.

Active member
The Imperium of Man is often known as 'Space Nazis' or 'Space Catholic Nazis', and while they have similarities, I believe other human nations are better comparisons/analogies. For one, I believe the Soviet Union's government is the most similar in terms of the way it was run.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
Roman Empire. It's literally everywhere in the etymology and iconography. People who compare them to Nazi Germany or Soviet Union as a primary source... I dunno... Man.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
The Imperium of Man is often known as 'Space Nazis' or 'Space Catholic Nazis', and while they have similarities, I believe other human nations are better comparisons/analogies. For one, I believe the Soviet Union's government is the most similar in terms of the way it was run.

No, it isn't. Imperium has nothing to do with either Nazis or Soviet Union beyond pure superficialities. It has some elements of Nazism, but organizationally, it is really "Holy Roman Empire IN SPEHSS!". Imperium is essentially a feudal state, and it is in fact much better representation of feudalism than most fantasy feudal societies. Planets have high levels of autonomy, and Imperium as such is essentially an alliance of autonomous planets and several major organizations (such as Adeptus Astra, Adeptus Mechanicus etc.). These organizations own planets of their own, and are basically states-within-a-state. They are not the only such internal-states - most notably there is Realm of Ultramar, which is basically Roboute Guilliman's personal fief. Planets which are not members of one of said organizations are directly members of Imperium of Man - and these planets enjoy a very high degree of autonomy. Basically, policy of Imperium is "pay the tithes, send psykers when Black Ships come, and don't make me come over there". Other than that, each world can have governmental, cultural, social and legal order of its own choosing.

Honestly, if it weren't for various space horrors and necessities of combating those, it could be said that IoM is much less authoritarian and intrusive than, say, United Federation of Planets or Galactic Republic.
 

Archinist.

Active member
No, it isn't. Imperium has nothing to do with either Nazis or Soviet Union beyond pure superficialities. It has some elements of Nazism, but organizationally, it is really "Holy Roman Empire IN SPEHSS!". Imperium is essentially a feudal state, and it is in fact much better representation of feudalism than most fantasy feudal societies. Planets have high levels of autonomy, and Imperium as such is essentially an alliance of autonomous planets and several major organizations (such as Adeptus Astra, Adeptus Mechanicus etc.). These organizations own planets of their own, and are basically states-within-a-state. They are not the only such internal-states - most notably there is Realm of Ultramar, which is basically Roboute Guilliman's personal fief. Planets which are not members of one of said organizations are directly members of Imperium of Man - and these planets enjoy a very high degree of autonomy. Basically, policy of Imperium is "pay the tithes, send psykers when Black Ships come, and don't make me come over there". Other than that, each world can have governmental, cultural, social and legal order of its own choosing.

Honestly, if it weren't for various space horrors and necessities of combating those, it could be said that IoM is much less authoritarian and intrusive than, say, United Federation of Planets or Galactic Republic.

Sure they do.

Racism, imperialism, belief in manifest destiny, and genocide are similarities with Nazi Germany. The Great Crusade Imperium and Soviet Russia practiced state atheism, athough for different reasons. Ultimately they are more feudal than fascist, however.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
Sure they do.

Racism, imperialism, belief in manifest destiny, and genocide are similarities with Nazi Germany. The Great Crusade Imperium and Soviet Russia practiced state atheism, athough for different reasons. Ultimately they are more feudal than fascist, however.

That is why I wrote "pure superficialities". Racism, imperialism, belief in manifest density and genocide - you can find all of those in Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, British Empire, Spanish Empire, Imperial China, expansionist-phase United States... By that logic, Imperium of Man is also based on all the empires I had listed. Hence, "superficialities". But when you look at actual organization, it is quite clearly based on the Holy Roman Empire.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
*reads thread title*

*logs onto Reddit*


The Skaven clearly.

And don't even start with me about the Skaven not being real...

*runs out of thread*
 

UberIguana

Well-known member
At the macro level, probably North Korea.
Contact with outsiders is very strongly discouraged.
Mandatory reverence for the head of state (not quite religious levels in NK's case however, and certainly not to the IoM's level).
Hugely militaristic.
Extensive state control over manufacturing, entertainment, and trade. This breaks down a little with the services sector, but that's because the Imperium is so sprawling it doesn't give any thought whatsoever to day to day activities on individual planets.
No internet.
Manufacturing that's outdated, backwards, lacking skills and expertise and is dependent on hardware few of its operators know how to maintain.

The main difference is NK sends secret police after you if you upset the state in a minor, non-legalistic way. The Imperium has mobs led by the Ecclesiarchy, who are so closely intertwined with the state there's no difference, despite attempts like the decree passive.

Depending on how things play out I guess Afghanistan under the Taliban might be a better fit. Tech they can't maintain, an economy that's fucked, religious zealots who lynch anyone not zealous enough, a dog's breakfast of an economy. Their deity-figurehead is actually a figurehead too, not someone giving commands. Automatic distrust of outsiders wouldn't quite fit, but it's still close. Guess we'll have to see if they ban the internet.
 

ATP

Well-known member
That is why I wrote "pure superficialities". Racism, imperialism, belief in manifest density and genocide - you can find all of those in Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, British Empire, Spanish Empire, Imperial China, expansionist-phase United States... By that logic, Imperium of Man is also based on all the empires I had listed. Hence, "superficialities". But when you look at actual organization, it is quite clearly based on the Holy Roman Empire.

Mostly right,but you forget Mechanicus.Which made entire thing impossible,becouse EVEN IF SOMEBODY WAS STUPID ENOUGH TO GAVE TECHNOLOGY TO CARGO CULTIST, it would not last 10.000 years.Becouse their enemies would innovate.

You could be as evil as you want,but when you stop innovating in military matters,you are dead.
Only reason why that happened in WH40 - they srarted as tabletop game with cool figurines fighting in melee.And from that point try explain how it was possible.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
Mostly right,but you forget Mechanicus.Which made entire thing impossible,becouse EVEN IF SOMEBODY WAS STUPID ENOUGH TO GAVE TECHNOLOGY TO CARGO CULTIST, it would not last 10.000 years.Becouse their enemies would innovate.

You could be as evil as you want,but when you stop innovating in military matters,you are dead.
Only reason why that happened in WH40 - they srarted as tabletop game with cool figurines fighting in melee.And from that point try explain how it was possible.

Not if nobody else innovates. Eldar have been using the same technology for millenia, Orcs have their technology literally hardwired into their genetic code, same for Tyranids, Necrons are murder bots who do not innovate either... the only ones who innovate at all are Tau, and the only thing that really means is that they are slated for their own personal "Men of Iron" apocalypse.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
Pretty sure literally every modern government has had times when they were working on the Cool New Thing, and then the war broke out so they scrapped it. Because not fucking up your logistics during wartime is far, far more important than being innovative. The Imperium of Man has been in a constant state of war for ten thousand years.

And in the 40k universe, there's an 80% chance the Cool New Thing is a chaos psyop that will eat your soul.

Also, Primaris are a thing. And Caul in general. (IMO they aren't really a good thing as something separate from vanilla SM, but that's neither here nor there).
 

ATP

Well-known member
Not if nobody else innovates. Eldar have been using the same technology for millenia, Orcs have their technology literally hardwired into their genetic code, same for Tyranids, Necrons are murder bots who do not innovate either... the only ones who innovate at all are Tau, and the only thing that really means is that they are slated for their own personal "Men of Iron" apocalypse.

Of course - GW must explain why IoM could be stupid and still survive.Answer - others are more stupid.Which is not possible - not all species could be idiots,or wipe out by idiots early.Somebody must survive to the point they have Honor Harrington level - and then they would wipe ou any enemy without any losses.
About what @LindyAF said - it would be true,but not for 10.000 years.Becouse only Busmens,Hotentot and Aborigens keep the same weapon that long - and we all knew how "good" it ended for them.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
Pretty sure literally every modern government has had times when they were working on the Cool New Thing, and then the war broke out so they scrapped it. Because not fucking up your logistics during wartime is far, far more important than being innovative. The Imperium of Man has been in a constant state of war for ten thousand years.

And then there's the issue that DAoT techno-archaeology really does work better than trying to work everything out from first principles. Because the DAoT was wack.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
And then there's the issue that DAoT techno-archaeology really does work better than trying to work everything out from first principles. Because the DAoT was wack.

A bit like how in a post apocalyptic world, trying to find a cache of ARs and ammo might have way more return on investment than trying to reinvent iron smelting. Especially when you're at war.
 

ATP

Well-known member
A bit like how in a post apocalyptic world, trying to find a cache of ARs and ammo might have way more return on investment than trying to reinvent iron smelting. Especially when you're at war.
True.But 10.000 years without any progress is possible only for stone age hunter-gatherer,like aborigens or bushmen.Anything more progressive must either evolve or devolve.And when both IoM and Eldar devolved,it is not enough to explain how things happened.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
True.But 10.000 years without any progress is possible only for stone age hunter-gatherer,like aborigens or bushmen.Anything more progressive must either evolve or devolve.And when both IoM and Eldar devolved,it is not enough to explain how things happened.

Except there is an explanation for extreme technological conservativism: Chaos. I remember a case of Imperial battleships - entire class - getting corrupted by Chaos simply because a certain portion of the ship's inner workings, from a certain angle, looked like the eight-pointed star symbol of Chaos. How long do you think designing a new ship would take if you had to look for details such as these at every stage of design process?

And then you have this:
 

ATP

Well-known member
Except there is an explanation for extreme technological conservativism: Chaos. I remember a case of Imperial battleships - entire class - getting corrupted by Chaos simply because a certain portion of the ship's inner workings, from a certain angle, looked like the eight-pointed star symbol of Chaos. How long do you think designing a new ship would take if you had to look for details such as these at every stage of design process?

And then you have this:

True - but then Chaos battleships with chaos inner working should finish off IoM long ago.They should have no have problem with progress.
Chaos do not explain why IoM is still standing,when they should either progress or fall.
Well,we knew that GW need money for cool figurines - but it is not any other logical explanation.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
True - but then Chaos battleships with chaos inner working should finish off IoM long ago.They should have no have problem with progress.

I do not think Chaos actually has the infrastructure required for this - most of their stuff appears to be inherited from the Imperium. Also, see below on impact of STC.

Chaos do not explain why IoM is still standing,when they should either progress or fall.
Well,we knew that GW need money for cool figurines - but it is not any other logical explanation.

Actually, IoM does progress technologically - it is just glacially slow because, as I noted, anything new brings with it a risk of Chaos corruption. Obvious example are e.g. Primaris marines and their equipment, which while new presents an evolution of already existing designs. Chaos corruption also explains Mechanicus' behaviour, which in and by itself is a big factor in Imperium's technological stagnation. Then there is also the fact that all technology is apparently produced in automated factories (the so called STC - Standard Template Construct). This allows for very easy mass production of any given item, but it also means that when you want to change the design, you have to literally rebuild the factory from ground up. And considering IoM is basically in a permanent state of total war, it is easy to see why they do not want to do this.

Also, you should not assume that progress is guaranteed, even without such external factors. Japanese did not employ gunpowder weapons until Chinese brought primitive hand cannons. Then they continued using the exact same designs until they copied Portuguese matchlocks in 1543. It was only then that Japanese actually started innovating themselves - and even then, flintlocks were introduced through contact with Europe (import from Netherlands in 1840s), though it does appear some effort was made to develop them domestically. Likewise, needle guns were imported from Europe in 1866.

And again, "progress or fall" is not actually true, since nobody else bothers to progress either. The entire galaxy is stagnant, and for reasons very similar to those of IoM - ironically, the Tyranids are likely the greatest innovators in the galaxy, followed closely by the Orks.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
I do not think Chaos actually has the infrastructure required for this - most of their stuff appears to be inherited from the Imperium. Also, see below on impact of STC.

Oh, in the EoT Chaos are constantly fighting internecine wars over ... clean water. There's a reason they've only managed to break out 13 times in ten thousand years.

Then there is also the fact that all technology is apparently produced in automated factories (the so called STC - Standard Template Construct). This allows for very easy mass production of any given item, but it also means that when you want to change the design, you have to literally rebuild the factory from ground up. And considering IoM is basically in a permanent state of total war, it is easy to see why they do not want to do this.

Technically STC constructor/design systems are pretty much all gone by 40k, what survives are largely hardcopy blueprints.


ironically, the Tyranids are likely the greatest innovators in the galaxy, followed closely by the Orks.

Orks don't really innovate, they just unlock more of the techbase coded into their genetic memory by the Old Ones.

True - but then Chaos battleships with chaos inner working should finish off IoM long ago.They should have no have problem with progress.
Chaos do not explain why IoM is still standing,when they should either progress or fall.
Well,we knew that GW need money for cool figurines - but it is not any other logical explanation.

It's hard to innovate when clean water is a precious resource worth fighting a war over, you live in a place where the laws of physics can change on you in the blink of an eye, and you consider "innovation" to be defined as "shove a daemon into it".
 
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bintananth

behind a desk
It's hard to innovate when clean water is a precious resource worth fighting a war over, you live in a place where the laws of physics can change on you in the blink of an eye, and you consider "innovation" to be defined as "shove a daemon into it".
I always facepalm when a SciFi setting with interstellar (or just interplanetary) space travel claims clean water is a rare and precious resource.

Water is literally one of the most abundant chemical compounds in the Universe and one of the easiest to extract from an ore.

Seriously, go grab a random comet from somewhere and warm it up to above 0°C. You'll probably have more than enough to meet your immediate needs.

ST Voyager is guilty of this too. If I'm remembering it right, the Kazon suffered from water shortages. If it wasn't them it some other species with Warp drives and that's about when I stopped watching ST.

ugh

EDIT: The reason it's not abundant near a star is because it has a very low melting point and evaporates very rapidly in a vacuum once it's warmed up enough to melt.
 
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