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Poland gets Martinque

Cherico

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At 436 sq miles Martinque is a small island in the carabiean

1804 Jefferson is negiotiating the Lousania purchase, and out of pity includes a clause to give the small island to the people of poland so that an independent polish nation will exist somewhere. Fully doubting it would work the French Diplomats don't notice it and when the clause is discovered its way too late.

The small island belongs to the polish people, and when the Napolonic wars end Polish refugees flee there and it ends up becoming the last remnant of a free polish nation.

How would this event change polish history? How would it impact culture on both the island and poland itself?
 

Agent23

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At 436 sq miles Martinque is a small island in the carabiean

1804 Jefferson is negiotiating the Lousania purchase, and out of pity includes a clause to give the small island to the people of poland so that an independent polish nation will exist somewhere. Fully doubting it would work the French Diplomats don't notice it and when the clause is discovered its way too late.

The small island belongs to the polish people, and when the Napolonic wars end Polish refugees flee there and it ends up becoming the last remnant of a free polish nation.

How would this event change polish history? How would it impact culture on both the island and poland itself?
If somebody doesn't swipe it or the USA doesn't go in during its more expansionist phases like in the early 20th century by making it into some type of protectorate or something then I think that it could become a better location for a Polish government in exile to function during WWII and the Cold War, especially the Cold War.

It won't be Taiwan exactly, but it could play a similar role and it can be the rallying spot for dissident Poles and a jumping off point to the USA.

I imagine it will get a lot of aid during the Cold War, since it will be proof that Poles under a western system do a lot better than those under the USSR.
 

ATP

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At 436 sq miles Martinque is a small island in the carabiean

1804 Jefferson is negiotiating the Lousania purchase, and out of pity includes a clause to give the small island to the people of poland so that an independent polish nation will exist somewhere. Fully doubting it would work the French Diplomats don't notice it and when the clause is discovered its way too late.

The small island belongs to the polish people, and when the Napolonic wars end Polish refugees flee there and it ends up becoming the last remnant of a free polish nation.

How would this event change polish history? How would it impact culture on both the island and poland itself?

Possible,unless russian navy do not conqer it.They had relatively good navy in those times.
Or,after 1871,german navy.
But,if it not happen - Poland goverment in exile would be there after 1945.
Which could help Poland,which in OTL was still partially ruled by commies after 1990.
 

Agent23

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Possible,unless russian navy do not conqer it.They had relatively good navy in those times.
Or,after 1871,german navy.
But,if it not happen - Poland goverment in exile would be there after 1945.
Which could help Poland,which in OTL was still partially ruled by commies after 1990.
I doubt they will try, also they basically dropped all their claims to stuff in the western hemisphere by the 1850s, don't recall when Alaska was sold.

They had some theoretical claim to Hawaii and a bunch of other islands in that general area, parts of California, and the like.
 

ATP

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I doubt they will try, also they basically dropped all their claims to stuff in the western hemisphere by the 1850s, don't recall when Alaska was sold.

They had some theoretical claim to Hawaii and a bunch of other islands in that general area, parts of California, and the like.
Good point.If Russia do not try to hold California,they would not try to take over Marttinque.Unless they try send ships with weapon during 1863 uprising,and tsar decide to retaliate - he send some ships to USA during cyvil war,and Lincoln was his ally.
Germans - they could invade USA till1900,so why not one tiny island?
 

Agent23

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Good point.If Russia do not try to hold California,they would not try to take over Marttinque.Unless they try send ships with weapon during 1863 uprising,and tsar decide to retaliate - he send some ships to USA during cyvil war,and Lincoln was his ally.
Germans - they could invade USA till1900,so why not one tiny island?
Yeah, the British and the French, who were enemies of Russia at the time, were salivating at the prospect to Balkanize the USA and supported the confederacy, that is why the Russians were freindly towards the USA.
 

bintananth

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Hmm ...

If the US buys Martinique along with Louisiana from France and gifts it to Poland the French aren't going to screw with it because Napoleon basically went to the US hat in hand offering Louisiana in exchange for cash when he was broke. If saner British heads (especially in the Admiralty) prevail they aren't going to mess with something in the Americas which falls somewhat under the Monroe Doctrine because irritating the US tends to be expensive for everyone.

The big part of this what if: Would the US Senate agree to it if Jefferson proposed it? The answer to that is almost certainly "no".

Heck, Jefferson wasn't even sure he had the authority to submit a treaty to the Senate where the US agreed to buy Luisiana from France when he did it.
 

WolfBear

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Heck, Jefferson wasn't even sure he had the authority to submit a treaty to the Senate where the US agreed to buy Luisiana from France when he did it.
That's certainly true, though it's worth noting that the position of others was on solid grounds. Since the US Constitution gives the US Senate the power to make and ratify treaties, why exactly wouldn't this also extend to treaties that secure additional territory for the US?
 

bintananth

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That's certainly true, though it's worth noting that the position of others was on solid grounds. Since the US Constitution gives the US Senate the power to make and ratify treaties, why exactly wouldn't this also extend to treaties that secure additional territory for the US?
Jefferson basically wrote the US Declaration of Independence. If he wasn't convinced "we can legally do this" it wasn't going to happen.
 

Buba

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IMO will not live longer than the Congress of Vienna.

Also - the tropical hellhole gifted to "Polish Nation"? Yeah, good luck with that - various groups of True Poles will be at one others' throats faster than you can say "now Poland can into space!".
 

WolfBear

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For the US to ratify a treaty 2/3 of the Senators present - all of whom have very diverse interests - must agree on something. They don't get a say until the President submits it for their advice and consideration.

Good luck with that ...
The President could still submit this treaty to the US Senate and allow them to determine this treaty's constitutionality.
 

bintananth

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The President could still submit this treaty to the US Senate and allow them to determine this treaty's constitutionality.
Jefferson wasn't sure if buying territory from a foreign power was constitutional and reluctantly submitted it. The Senate saying "yup, that's ok and we approve" meant that the House of Representatives needed to OK $15 million at a time when the Federal budget was about $9 million.

Scale that up to the current Federal budget and you're looking at basically the GDP of Japan and Mexico combined.
 

ATP

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IMO will not live longer than the Congress of Vienna.

Also - the tropical hellhole gifted to "Polish Nation"? Yeah, good luck with that - various groups of True Poles will be at one others' throats faster than you can say "now Poland can into space!".
Only if Russia decide to invade.If not,it would remain unimportant island where many refuges would come after another lost uprising.And nobody would care.
With one exception - soldiers.There would be many ex-soldiers there,some of them would like to continue being soldiers.
They would probably end as mercaneries fighting in various South american cyvil wars.
Would it change anything? maybe.
 

bintananth

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Only if Russia decide to invade.If not,it would remain unimportant island where many refuges would come after another lost uprising.And nobody would care.
With one exception - soldiers.There would be many ex-soldiers there,some of them would like to continue being soldiers.
They would probably end as mercaneries fighting in various South american cyvil wars.
Would it change anything? maybe.
Russia was not getting anything which could be called an "invasion fleet" out of the Baltic Sea, Black Sea, Arctic, or Far East which could even threaten Martinique back then so if the US gave Martinique to the Poles the only real threat they would have faced would have been France or Britain picking a fight while the US was distracted: see: The French involvment in Mexico during the early 1860s.
 

WolfBear

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Jefferson wasn't sure if buying territory from a foreign power was constitutional and reluctantly submitted it. The Senate saying "yup, that's ok and we approve" meant that the House of Representatives needed to OK $15 million at a time when the Federal budget was about $9 million.

Scale that up to the current Federal budget and you're looking at basically the GDP of Japan and Mexico combined.
How'd they get the money?
 
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