PC/WI: A Red Germany in 1919?

WolfBear

Well-known member
Would this scenario be plausible, and what would the consequences of this have been?

-Germany wins WWI in 1918 as a result of a successful Michael Offensive (done differently, whatever)
-Germany subsequently invades Russia to overthrow the Bolsheviks
-Once Germany does this, it attempts to install its own puppet regime throughout all of Russia
-This triggers an insurgency by the Russians, who are given as much Western aid as they reasonably could be given and which necessitates the transfer of a large number of German troops to the East
-The German working-class, being tired of years of non-stop warfare and having no one to monitor them now that the German military is busy fighting in the East, decide to organize extremely massive strikes, which spiral into a German Revolution
-The SPD attempts to ensure that the course of the German Revolution will be moderate and thus makes a deal with the German military to return from the East in order to crush the German Communists--as in, the more radical German revolutionaries.
-Unfortunately for the SPD, however, the German military itself becomes rife with strikes and mutinies, with German soldiers often siding with the German Communists. The German Kaiser, military brass, and SPD leaders all flee abroad while Germany is declared a Communist Republic.
-A Communist Revolution subsequently likewise breaks out in Austria-Hungary while France, Italy, and Romania move in to claim their desired ethnic territories. Poland also successfully manages to break away from German rule and otherthrow its German puppet monarch.
-With the departure of German troops from the East, Russia successfully restores its independence and subsequently proceeds to successfully invade Ukraine. It might or might not successfully conquer Finland and/or the Baltic countries as well depending on just how strong these countries as well as Poland are at this point in time. Poland, of course, remains independent, with its final eastern borders being determined by battlefield realities. Of course, Poland also invades Germany in an attempt to conquer Germany's Polish lands, which Germany won't let go without a fight but is still busy recovering from the shock of a Communist Revolution.

Anyway, how does all of this end?
 
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Russia would remain normal,yes ? then,revolution in Germany would be crushed.And Poland probably become russian puppet state,but - still better then commie colony.
 
Russia would remain normal,yes ? then,revolution in Germany would be crushed.And Poland probably become russian puppet state,but - still better then commie colony.

Russia would presumably be led by moderate socialists after the Germans are expelled from there. Though I don't know if the Russians would actually have the appetite to subsequently march onto Germany and help the German SPD crush the German Communists. I mean, they could, but it's not guaranteed due to Russian war-weariness.
 
Russia would presumably be led by moderate socialists after the Germans are expelled from there. Though I don't know if the Russians would actually have the appetite to subsequently march onto Germany and help the German SPD crush the German Communists. I mean, they could, but it's not guaranteed due to Russian war-weariness.

Russian lead by socialists? you knew,it was possible,and they could do nothing except taking Ukraine,becouse for all russians it was part of their lands.
Whites,new tsar,even greens probably would conqer soviet germany.
 
Russian lead by socialists? you knew,it was possible,and they could do nothing except taking Ukraine,becouse for all russians it was part of their lands.
Whites,new tsar,even greens probably would conqer soviet germany.

They wouldn't conquer Germany except to liberate it from the German Communists and put in place a more normal government there. Possibly one led by the SPD.
 
They wouldn't conquer Germany except to liberate it from the German Communists and put in place a more normal government there. Possibly one led by the SPD.

well,russians planned polish vassal state ,so they would take polish territories and do that.Maybe even part of East prussia for themselves.SPD would not mind.
 
well,russians planned polish vassal state ,so they would take polish territories and do that.Maybe even part of East prussia for themselves.SPD would not mind.

I don't think that Russian socialists actually opposed Polish independence. It was Russian conservatives who were much more likely to hold this position.
 
I don't think that Russian socialists actually opposed Polish independence. It was Russian conservatives who were much more likely to hold this position.

That was what i was saing - Kiereński gave Poland freedom,but white generals or tsar would not agree to that.But,they wonted vassal polish state which get as much as possible land from german partition/so there would be never peace there/ ,and as little as possible from russian partition - but,with Warsaw.
 
That was what i was saing - Kiereński gave Poland freedom,but white generals or tsar would not agree to that.But,they wonted vassal polish state which get as much as possible land from german partition/so there would be never peace there/ ,and as little as possible from russian partition - but,with Warsaw.

So, similar to Stalin's post-WWII logic?
 
Exactly.I bet,that Sralin stolen their ideas and pretended that he thought about it.

A map of Sergei Sazonov's future Europe from 1914:



Germany keeps Lower Silesia here, which it did not do in 1945 in real life.
 
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