ISOT Original 13 U.S. States Isot

Quickdraw101

Beware My Power-Green Lantern's Light
In this scenario, October 1st, 2019, the U.S. states that made up the original 13 colonies find themselves thrown back in time to July 4th, 1776. This also includes the states of Maine, West Virginia, and Vermont. At the same time, the 13 colonies find themselves in the modern United States. What would the reaction be from both sides realizing they are in a different time period? How would both sides adapt to this? How would the past world be affected with modern American states showing up and replacing the old ones? What would the economic repercussions be from losing those states have not only on the remainder of the United States, but the rest of the world?
Map for reference.
Apk784b.png
 
D

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I would expect ten million to starve, to be frank, before we get enough food production. The lack of fertilizer will be brutal.
 

Quickdraw101

Beware My Power-Green Lantern's Light
I would expect ten million to starve, to be frank, before we get enough food production. The lack of fertilizer will be brutal.
I'd imagine it'd be mostly in the large cities, like New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Atlanta. What do you think the British reaction would be? Especially if they lose the entire invasion force in the New York and New Jersey campaign.
 

Lanmandragon

Well-known member
I'd imagine it'd be mostly in the large cities, like New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Atlanta. What do you think the British reaction would be? Especially if they lose the entire invasion force in the New York and New Jersey campaign.
Alot of disbelief likley. I mean "the colonists have magic guns that continuous fire at impossible ranges. They also have some sorecery that makes cannons look like popguns(missles). Last but certainly not least My Lord they have gigantic metal birds and don't get me started on the impossibly powerful ships they have". Sounds kind of like bullshit you know?
 
D

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I'd imagine it'd be mostly in the large cities, like New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Atlanta. What do you think the British reaction would be? Especially if they lose the entire invasion force in the New York and New Jersey campaign.

The British will make peace. They will have a huge squadron offshore and thus the best intel of the impossible that has happened, and are the society least likely to go mad over it, except France.
 

Quickdraw101

Beware My Power-Green Lantern's Light
Alot of disbelief likley. I mean "the colonists have magic guns that continuous fire at impossible ranges. They also have some sorecery that makes cannons look like popguns(missles). Last but certainly not least My Lord they have gigantic metal birds and don't get me started on the impossibly powerful ships they have". Sounds kind of like bullshit you know?
The British will make peace. They will have a huge squadron offshore and thus the best intel of the impossible that has happened, and are the society least likely to go mad over it, except France.
How about the reaction the modern world has with the disappearance of nearly the entire eastern seaboard and it being replaced by the original 13 colonies?
 

Quickdraw101

Beware My Power-Green Lantern's Light
The United States just got turned into the equivalent of a post-soviet second world country, so Putin is dancing the jig.
I think it'll be more China going that because they now have an economy far ahead of ours and will now hold the title of superpower. I'd imagine at least a few wars start now that American forces will be recalled back home to deal with the crisis.
 

Spartan303

In Captain America we Trust!
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Immediate concerns to address will be food and fuels. The bread basket will be out towards the midwest. That's gone now. There will be mass panic and despair. I mean how do you explain that 3/4s of the country and the rest of the wold just disappeared? How do you suddenly deal with that? You really cant. Then there are mineral shortages and the like to address. The situation is survivable, but man the economy is in the tanks for sure.

Still, the United States had between 75 to 100 million on the Eastern Seaboard. Nearly all of that came through. There is going to be a massive drive west to reclaim the nation. Expect that to be the case, though I expect much of the mistakes we made the last time will be side stepped or handled differently. Sea to shining sea is going to be a thing again. And once the Crown gets a look at what the United States is packing, and truly understands the implications militarily, they are not going to come out to fight. It's suicide. The Strategic situation has drastically changed. Lot of ways this can all be butterflied but I expect that within the century the full United States is back and better than ever. But how that happens will be interesting. So many butterflies....
 

Quickdraw101

Beware My Power-Green Lantern's Light
Immediate concerns to address will be food and fuels. The bread basket will be out towards the midwest. That's gone now. There will be mass panic and despair. I mean how do you explain that 3/4s of the country and the rest of the wold just disappeared? How do you suddenly deal with that? You really cant. Then there are mineral shortages and the like to address. The situation is survivable, but man the economy is in the tanks for sure.

Still, the United States had between 75 to 100 million on the Eastern Seaboard. Nearly all of that came through. There is going to be a massive drive west to reclaim the nation. Expect that to be the case, though I expect much of the mistakes we made the last time will be side stepped or handled differently. Sea to shining sea is going to be a thing again. And once the Crown gets a look at what the United States is packing, and truly understands the implications militarily, they are not going to come out to fight. It's suicide. The Strategic situation has drastically changed. Lot of ways this can all be butterflied but I expect that within the century the full United States is back and better than ever. But how that happens will be interesting. So many butterflies....
Alot of disbelief likley. I mean "the colonists have magic guns that continuous fire at impossible ranges. They also have some sorecery that makes cannons look like popguns(missles). Last but certainly not least My Lord they have gigantic metal birds and don't get me started on the impossibly powerful ships they have". Sounds kind of like bullshit you know?
On a personal note, how would all of you feel about it? Whether you were in the 13 colonies or watching from a state outside of it?
 

Spartan303

In Captain America we Trust!
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Osaul
On a personal note, how would all of you feel about it? Whether you were in the 13 colonies or watching from a state outside of it?


Speaking for myself I'd be bewildered, confused but resolute to defend my country. Former soldier and willing to go back into uniform. But the situation is...strange.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Alot of disbelief likley. I mean "the colonists have magic guns that continuous fire at impossible ranges. They also have some sorecery that makes cannons look like popguns(missles). Last but certainly not least My Lord they have gigantic metal birds and don't get me started on the impossibly powerful ships they have". Sounds kind of like bullshit you know?

Yep, they might think that the people who were burning witches almost a century earlier (specifically in 1692) in Salem might have actually been right about this. Witches in our midst! Beware!

Immediate concerns to address will be food and fuels. The bread basket will be out towards the midwest. That's gone now. There will be mass panic and despair. I mean how do you explain that 3/4s of the country and the rest of the wold just disappeared? How do you suddenly deal with that? You really cant. Then there are mineral shortages and the like to address. The situation is survivable, but man the economy is in the tanks for sure.

Still, the United States had between 75 to 100 million on the Eastern Seaboard. Nearly all of that came through. There is going to be a massive drive west to reclaim the nation. Expect that to be the case, though I expect much of the mistakes we made the last time will be side stepped or handled differently. Sea to shining sea is going to be a thing again. And once the Crown gets a look at what the United States is packing, and truly understands the implications militarily, they are not going to come out to fight. It's suicide. The Strategic situation has drastically changed. Lot of ways this can all be butterflied but I expect that within the century the full United States is back and better than ever. But how that happens will be interesting. So many butterflies....

Americans are also going to have to be encouraged to breed more and to go settle on Midwestern farms once the US will actually acquire the Midwest.

How about the reaction the modern world has with the disappearance of nearly the entire eastern seaboard and it being replaced by the original 13 colonies?

Americans in the rest of the present-day US would go absolutely ballistic over the thoughts of the people in the Thirteen Colonies on slavery, black rights, women's rights, sodomy, gay rights, same-sex marriage, et cetera. The culture shock and culture clash will be severe on an extraordinarily unprecedented scale, no doubt!
 

Buba

A total creep
In Up Time (UT) USA?
Fun times!
1 - Most of the original 13 + plus Main, Vermont and Wee Vee, thus now known as the Lost Sixteen - are Dem voting states. USA politics are turned on their head. The 32 Senators from the DT states will make e.g. Woodrow Wilson look like a raging Wokeist.
plus
if Congress was in session - the top of the political and lobbist classes are gone.
2 - Wall Street gone. Such toxic institutions like Goldman Sachs - gone. Financial turmoil ensues.
3 - Economic turmoil accentuated by loss of industry. The country no longer has the capability to build nuclear carriers. Rebuilding such capacity will take how long - a decade?
4 - demographics quite different. Half of the Jews are gone. Almost half of Blacks are gone. USA is whiter, more Catholic, more Latino.

A small nit - the 1776 borders of the Original 13 are not identical to today's.

Meanwhile, in 1776 - there is more gold in New York than had been minded since the Dawn of Time. Several orders of magnitude more.

ADDED LATER:
In both timelines Montreal is washed away.

Jefferson and some other Founding Fathers are outraged: "What?!? You are saying I cannot breed my negro wenches and sell the brats down river? Outrageous Tyranny! To Arms, Sons of Liberty! Fight for your Property Rights!"
 
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Buba

A total creep
In 2019
I think it'll be more China going that
China mighty hurting - the Lost 16 causes the Mother of All Depressions in the US which boils over to the global economy. Loss of 100M well off consumers, loss of service providers, disruption of supply chains, loss of financial data maybe, uncertainity "who next?" - severalo quarters of the world not buying Chinese products.

in 1776
There is going to be a massive drive west to reclaim the nation.
Whom by? All those urban people with 1st World Problems like being cut off from their favourite anime?
Americans are also going to have to be encouraged to breed more and to go settle on Midwestern farms once the US will actually acquire the Midwest.
Good luck with that. Pro-natalistic campaigns in 1st world countries have proven to be oh how successful.
Even the lack of condoms - it will be years before kautschuk supplies reappear in industrail quantities, and that of birth control pills (I'd wager that production is disrupted and may take some time to resume or be ramped up) - may not have an impact as abortion rates skyrocket.
 
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Spartan303

In Captain America we Trust!
Administrator
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Osaul
Good luck with that. Pro-natalistic campaigns in 1st world countries have proven to be oh how successful.
Even the lack of condoms - it will be years before kautschuk supplies reappear, and I'd wager that production of various birth control pills is disrupted and may take some time to resume or be ramped up - may not have an impact as abortion rates skyrocket.

They haven't worked because there was no real drive behind them. Now there would be as the first world collapses without expansion.
 

Atarlost

Well-known member
In Up Time (UT) USA?
Fun times!
1 - Most of the original 13 + plus Main, Vermont and Wee Vee, thus now known as the Lost Sixteen - are Dem voting states. USA politics are turned on their head. The 32 Senators from the DT states will make e.g. Woodrow Wilson look like a raging Wokeist.
plus
if Congress was in session - the top of the political and lobbist classes are gone.
2 - Wall Street gone. Such toxic institutions like Goldman Sachs - gone. Financial turmoil ensues.
3 - Economic turmoil accentuated by loss of industry. The country no longer has the capability to build nuclear carriers. Rebuilding such capacity will take how long - a decade?
4 - demographics quite different. Half of the Jews are gone. Almost half of Blacks are gone. USA is whiter, more Catholic, more Latino.

A small nit - the 1776 borders of the Original 13 are not identical to today's.

Meanwhile, in 1776 - there is more gold in New York than had been minded since the Dawn of Time. Several orders of magnitude more.

ADDED LATER:
In both timelines Montreal is washed away.

Jefferson and some other Founding Fathers are outraged: "What?!? You are saying I cannot breed my negro wenches and sell the brats down river? Outrageous Tyranny! To Arms, Sons of Liberty! Fight for your Property Rights!"

Any slave state that tries to stay out of the Union gets drowned in anti-slavery crusaders. This is too many peoples' berserk button and even if the government doesn't want to fight, civilian Americans have enough firepower in 18th century terms to pull a Texas.

The displaced 1776ers form one or two new political parties, but both initially caucus with the Republicans because at least the Republicans are mostly anti-abortion and anti-transgender.

The Army Corps of Engineers descends on Washington DC to drain the literal swamp that has replaced the metaphorical swamp and put up some temporary buildings because it's easier to rebuild a city than to select a new capital site.

Senate was in session but it was a non-legislative period. I'm not sure what this means, but I assume the senate minority and senate majority leaders would be attending. schedule on p4
The House didn't have business scheduled on October 1st, but did on September 24 and October 4th. This is a large enough gap that I suspect most Representatives would have been in their home states.

Assuming all of the cabinet members in the presidential succession are ISOTed I believe Nancy Pelosi is president for what remains of Obama's first term. Since there are nine vacancies in the Supreme Court, this is the end of America. It's civil war o'clock. If the Senate lets her appoint even one justice there's a 100% Democrat court until the next election. She will use this to effectively ban all serious opposition parties because otherwise they'll form a coalition to stack the court and overturn Roe vs. Wade, which is fatal for the Democrat Party. Almost literally. If the unborn are ruled to be people abortion has always been murder (the ex post facto clause applies to congress not the courts, which inherently make ex post facto rulings) and the majority of the Democrat political class can be charged with conspiracy to commit murder for voting to fund or encourage abortion or donating to Planned Parenthood. Pelosi could go for a soft landing by appointing the Jay Court, letting them ban abortion, and immediately pardoning everyone, but I don't think she'd be willing to take that loss when she could try to appoint a court guaranteed to side her way on election challenges no matter the facts of the case.

All of this means the political violence doesn't stop until one side or the other is broken and the losing party is de facto banned under section 3 of the 14th amendment.
 

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