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What If? Modern Day Mongol Horde?

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
So... lets say we wanted to make a Mongol Horde for the early 21st Century era and trying to adapt or utilize classic Mongol tactics and organizations to successful battlefield and tactical/strategic dominance in Modern Warfare.

What would the breakdown of the units be? What kind of equipment could or would they potentially use? What modifications to the doctrines would there be? And this is all assuming they have the same martial spirit and prowess that the historical Mongols have in popular history psyche. So if your replacing all of their horses with Toyota Hiluxs mounted with ATGM's, assume just as expert proficiency operating said trucks as they did their Mongol steeds!

 
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PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
It depends on who you are engaging, if it's third world countries, then rifle and RPG teams travelling on motorcycles, backed by Toyotas carrying mounted ATGMs and HMGs, along with dismountable mortar teams.

If you are operating against second world nation you will have to add a lot of MANPADs along with both observation and bombing light drones, remote guided VBIEDs would also be nice. Artillery, tanks and APC would most likely be needed to take strongpoints that can't be outflanked.

Against first world nation you would need a comprehensively overlapping SAM network and serious artillery, not to mention tanks.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Some problems immediately arise:

1) Mongol tactics are suited to a world before the absolute dominance of air superiority. You can adapt them, but that would involve the Neo-Khanate using its air force as the equivalent of cavalry, which (if successfully done) quickly negates the OTL deficiences of the Mongols. (Such as not having a good navy, and thus failing utterly when trying to take Japan. A Neo-Khanate with a super-charged air force would quickly lay waste to Japan...)

2) Mongol tactics are suited to a world before long-range missiles. Again, we can have the Neo-Khanate develop the mostest and bestest long-range missiles ever, these being the equivalent of their unsurpassed and long-ranging archery. But again, the scale involved here means that instead of a battle-winning advantage, this gives them a world-conquering advantage.

3) Mongol tactics are suited to a world before atomic weaponry. The fact is that if the Neo-Khanate as suggested in the points aove does arise, the response is nuclear. Even if the Neo-Mongols also have nukes, they can't prevent their enemies from launching. The fact is that the very existence of a conquest-bent Neo-Khanate would prompt the ultima ratio regis to be deployed against them. The scenario therefore must presuppose that an effective counter to nukes has been invented, or that instead of 'early 21st century', we're willing to say 'early 20th century'. (The first option leads to the already suggested outcome of the Neo-Khanate going world-conquering, and the second option... well....


...The thing is: the closest we actually ever got to a Neo-Khanate was Nazi Germany. It was a warped parody, to be sure, but the Blitzkrieg was basically their attempt at it. They had crack troops, they had some excellent weaponry, they had (for a time) the missile advantage, and they had a doctrine of speed that allowed them to overwhelm their enemies. They didn't have the numbers (of everything) and they didn't have the clear-headed leadership.

If you imagine some ASB scenario where Russia has a fascist coup instead of a commie one, and Germany and Russia somehow united to form a single "Eurasian Empire", then they have the numbers (of men, food, raw materials...) required. They'd have the means to build the most planes and the best planes, and to build hundreds of times as many missiles as Germany could in OTL. If they then adopt the same tactics as WWII Germany, minus the Holocaust lunacy... well, then they conquer the world. That's roughly what a Neo-Khanate would look like.


Since the first half of the 20th century, air superiority has only become more important. It can be argued that the failure of the Luftwaffe was one critical weakness for the Nazis already. The closer we get to the present, the more critical this point becomes. A 'present-day' Neo-Khanate, therefore, relies on the following points:

-- Effective neutralisation of strategic nuclear weapons as a tool of force.

-- Overwhelming air superiority; planes of all types superior to anything their enemies have. Best pilots on Earth, trained for this purpose from a very young age, in a staggeringly thorough training programme that weeds out anyone who isn't an ace.

-- Overwhelming missile superiority. Best, fastest, longest-ranging weaponry on Earth. Missiles capable of striking any place on Earth, capable of (more often than not) outspeeding any defence mechanisms that may be attempted.

-- Excellent surface-to-air-defences of their own, which are in turn capable of deflecting most any attempted air raids or missile strikes aimed at the Neo-Khanate itself.

-- Ludicrously good logistics.

-- A highly militarised society, completely unhindered by even the slightest hints of democracy.

-- Within the Neo-Khanate, many cultures exist, and the governing policy is "get along, or else". A religion that tries to impoe itself on others is a religion whose adherents get turned into dog food by the close of the year.

-- A policy of granting immediate citizenhip to any nation or regions that joins them. As a mater of routine, the existing bureacracy is purged (sometimes up to 100%), and a new, stream-lined governmental apparatus put in place. Taxes are lowered by 50% at minumimum, often they are lowered by up to 80%.

-- Conversely, a policy of ruthless conquest, where resisting region or cities are literally exterminated. In case of 'betrayal' (i.e. a region submits, but then rebel activity begins) the entire region is depopulated, in some very attention-grabbing form (like mass crucifixions, pyramids of skulls, organised gang rape of literally every woman who lives there...)

-- Ground forces are presumably very numerous, but because the focus is on the "aerial blitzkrieg" strategy, they're presumably not the best the Neo-Khanate has. Ruthless butchers who slaughter anyone who resists in already-conquered regions where trouble arises. (As a key point: regions that join voluntarily are treated very well, and don't typically need occupation, nor is stationing many troops there desired.)

-- Probably a shit navy, if any to speak of. This means that while missiles and advanced strategic bombers may inflict horrors across oceans, mass projection of fighters across vast oceanic distances is a no-go. This mimics the weakness of the OTL (land-bound) Khanate to some extent, at least.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Hmm…

In that case, I wonder if there's anyone who could possibly stand up to the Neo-Mongols?

As said above, they lacked naval prowess, so maybe an established maritime power with respectable ground and air forces could take them on. Best candidates that come to mind at the moment are either the British Empire pre-decolonization (the Royal Navy) or the United States during or after World War II (the USN).

For the latter, it'd certainly be fun to have the Arsenal of Democracy and up-and-coming global superpower in the West test its metal against the resurgent Neo-Khaganate in the East. Of course, American militarization would have to be much more permanent, so besides Israel-style conscription of all able-bodied citizens, the "well-regulated militia" aspect of the 2nd Amendment (as well as a robust gun culture in general, for that matter) would give the Neo-Mongol invaders hell as soon as they set foot on the American mainland itself.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Hurm those are good points. I'll be honest, when I was thinking of this thread in the first place, I was thinking of Orders of Battle and military organizations but as I put the pen to paper (so to speak) I decided to make it more open ended with the strategic and everything. Like a modern day Mongolian "Tumen" or large base unit in that regard.

And I heard the whole thing about Nazi Germany being the closest modern parallel to the Mongolian Horde and I can see a lot of merit in that sort of comparison.

So in regard to what @Skallagrim mentions, if we look beneath the strategic and macro level... lets assume there is some sort of "Neo-Khanate" in Central Asia. I'm not big on the whole alternate history that might lead to its rising, that is a whole different discussion, but lets say hypothetically we have a world where there is a Neo-Khanate that stretches across Central Asia. It obviously includes modern day Mongolia... and Chinese Mongolia, Western China, most of the Central Asian stans, Persia, Caucasus, much of Russia up to Bessarabia and close to the present day Ukrainian-Russian/Belarussian border. It's a major power but there are other peer powers or lesser powers... some sort of Chinese state, European powers, India, whatever is going on in the Americas etc. Africa and the Middle East etc.

So we can assume it has a MAD level of nuclear/strategic weaponry but in good classic Versus faction, no Nukes can be considered for the tactical analysis. And they have comparable ballistic air defense and obviously a functioning economy of some sort.

The thrust of this post is... a modernized Mongol military... like a Tumen... or its equivalent brigade or division level structure. It doesn't have to be 2020-25 if that's hard to quantify but something late Cold War era or later.

Would the Mongols make work with traditional military organization... or with their ludicrously good logistics could they form semi-independent air-ground task forces (like the US Marine Corps) only on a far larger scale and across swathes of land. Like integrated mechanized/motorized troops with logistical support, air defense and dedicated air forces or something?
 

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