Britain Millennial Woes and Hope Not Hate: a Lecture

Curved_Sw0rd

Just Like That Bluebird
In this lecture, Millennial Woes goes over the actions, methods, and targets of the UK-based organization known as Hope Not Hate.



As you can see the video is quite long, nearing an hour in length. That said, HnH is a busy organization, so there's a massive amount to pick at for Woes, not the least of which is the Doxxing of the man in question. Woes began his YouTube career somewhat anonymously, and HnH latched onto him and wanted a name to go with the face immediately. Soon enough they had Woe's real name, publicized it, and made his life and the lives of those around him, a lot more difficult. Woes has invited them to talk to him, but HnH declined.

Tom Dupre, someone involved with Generation Identity, was discovered to work for a multinational bank by HnH. HnH demanded Dupre's employers fire him, and they initially refused. HnH decided that they'd blast the entire company for the actions of a single employee, and they were forced to let him go.

The incidents go on and on, a good portion of which are outright nasty, belligerent, and intentional. The picture Woes paints is pretty clear in that regard. While, and let me stress this, some of HnH's targets are legitimately awful people, they've expanded their definition of "Far Right" incredibly wide, and make little to no distinction between violent groups and nonviolent groups, using these vicious tactics on everyone to the right of Sargon.

Now my question is this, why is no one outside those most affected by Hope Not Hate talking about the extreme and draconian measures they're taking? They eschew free expression, they make things personal, it's all very very illiberal.
 

Realm

Well-known member
Now my question is this, why is no one outside those most affected by Hope Not Hate talking about the extreme and draconian measures they're taking? They eschew free expression, they make things personal, it's all very very illiberal.

Actually, getting people fired from places by pointing to their actions and connecting them to companies reputation is entirely a liberal concept. There is nothing in liberalism protecting employment, in fact the opposite is true, and restricting your actions to that of boycott and reputation of firms within a market is a fundamentally liberal action.

Guaranteeing employment is illiberal. Guaranteeing quality of life without employment is illiberal. Guaranteeing freedom of expression in terms of labour rights is illiberal.
 

FriedCFour

PunishedCFour
Founder
Guaranteeing freedom of expression in terms of labour rights is illiberal.
Tell me what illiberal groups would stand for the labor rights of right wingers who have been fired for their beliefs. Are there many who have sided with the bakers who were sued for refusing to make a gay wedding cake? The credit cards and banks who dropped people? Those fired? Anyone put out a word supporting James Damore, any of the proud boys? Pretty sure the illiberal positions is commonly that such speech is actually violence, impossible to tolerate intolerance, etc. Am I wrong on that? Do you have any examples against that? Would you personally say it is wrong to fire someone for right or far right political views?
 

Curved_Sw0rd

Just Like That Bluebird
Actually, getting people fired from places by pointing to their actions and connecting them to companies reputation is entirely a liberal concept. There is nothing in liberalism protecting employment, in fact the opposite is true, and restricting your actions to that of boycott and reputation of firms within a market is a fundamentally liberal action.

Guaranteeing employment is illiberal. Guaranteeing quality of life without employment is illiberal. Guaranteeing freedom of expression in terms of labour rights is illiberal.
It's far from even, though. I can't recall a case where someone was fired for being part of Antifa or a hardcore Stalinist. If there is such a case, it's still a scummy thing to do if they can keep their professional lives and political lives separate and are non-violent.
 

Realm

Well-known member
It's far from even, though. I can't recall a case where someone was fired for being part of Antifa or a hardcore Stalinist. If there is such a case, it's still a scummy thing to do if they can keep their professional lives and political lives separate and are non-violent.

I wasn't referencing an equality or who would be the target (and I would suspect the right gets "told on" by virtue of having more opinions and willingness to speak in way that could be seen as offensive and reflecting poorly on their employer)

Specifically, it was the idea of pressure campaigns as illiberal, which I deeply disagree with from the standpoint of actual liberal ideology.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
I wasn't referencing an equality or who would be the target (and I would suspect the right gets "told on" by virtue of having more opinions and willingness to speak in way that could be seen as offensive and reflecting poorly on their employer)

Specifically, it was the idea of pressure campaigns as illiberal, which I deeply disagree with from the standpoint of actual liberal ideology.

Realm Do you approve of these tactics?

Yes or no.

No weasel words, no if it happens in X situation I want a yes or no.

Because if you do and the day comes that their used against you, then I don't want to hear any bitching from you. If you don't and the day comes that its used against you and yours then you have every right to bitch and moan.
 

Realm

Well-known member
Realm Do you approve of these tactics?

Yes or no.

No weasel words, no if it happens in X situation I want a yes or no.

Because if you do and the day comes that their used against you, then I don't want to hear any bitching from you. If you don't and the day comes that its used against you and yours then you have every right to bitch and moan.

I think every human is entitled to everything they need to live a good, healthy and fulfilling life. Getting people fired under a capitalist system is a direct attack on this, and I do oppose it.

Also, again, I was specifically talking about liberal ideology, put away the rage boner
 

Cherico

Well-known member
I think every human is entitled to everything they need to live a good, healthy and fulfilling life. Getting people fired under a capitalist system is a direct attack on this, and I do oppose it.

Also, again, I was specifically talking about liberal ideology, put away the rage boner

so the reply is no.

Were good then.
 

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