#MeToo and Cancel Culture: Friday is bring your own torches and pitchforks day!

[CarlManvers2019]

If Vic does win, I wonder if he will ever be hired again? The fans may want him, but the studio’s are all idiotic pussies

 

[Arch Dornan]

I'm not a fan of the community there, but I've got to give them credit; if you want to know what someone has done and/or said on the internet, sometimes even off of it, Kiwifarms is probably the best place to find out. As I recall, Vic's lawyer has said they've been instrumental in finding evidence to support the case against his client's accusers; and considering the sheer amount of data they uncovered and put up on their forum, I believe him.

Yes. My morals also disapprove of what they do initially but all that information was just so compelling that my daily time is spent lurking there to learn quite a lot about people in general and be more satisfied with my own life.

Nick himself doesn't approve of their actions but he has no control over them as he said. They do their own thing.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Yes. My morals also disapprove of what they do initially but all that information was just so compelling that my daily time is spent lurking there to learn quite a lot about people in general and be more satisfied with my own life.

Nick himself doesn't approve of their actions but he has no control over them as he said. They do their own thing.

As far as I can tell, how Kiwifarms gets their info is actually REALLY simple because those they get info on are BAD at covering things up or barely bother and hope to shout people into looking the other way

 

[Terthna]

Yes. My morals also disapprove of what they do initially but all that information was just so compelling that my daily time is spent lurking there to learn quite a lot about people in general and be more satisfied with my own life.

Nick himself doesn't approve of their actions but he has no control over them as he said. They do their own thing.

For Nick, I think it's a case of not wanting to leave money on the table.

 

[Arch Dornan]

As far as I can tell, how Kiwifarms gets their info is actually REALLY simple because those they get info on are BAD at covering things up or barely bother and hope to shout people into looking the other way

Yes the people they cover are bad at protecting their own privacy and so the legal speak dictates what they don't put on private is now public.

For Nick, I think it's a case of not wanting to leave money on the table.

That can be so.

He knows the position he is in. One wrong move and he'll fall down like Humpty Dumpty.

 

[Terthna]

As far as I can tell, how Kiwifarms gets their info is actually REALLY simple because those they get info on are BAD at covering things up or barely bother and hope to shout people into looking the other way

It may be simple, but it's also incredibly tedious and time consuming sifting through even one person's entire twitter history to find something damning; Kiwifarms is impressive, mostly because they're willing to do all the work for free.

 

[Arch Dornan]

It may be simple, but it's also incredibly tedious and time consuming sifting through even one person's entire twitter history to find something damning; Kiwifarms is impressive, mostly because they're willing to do all the work for free.

"Weaponised autism" they call it.

Real Beard said he'd rather fight Isis than take them on and I can see why. They use embarrassing information to laugh at people and it gets under their skin.

A sci fi counterpart would be a rogue AI or Shadow Broker from Mass effect who would do a social experiment by documenting certain individuals to be put online for everyone to see and get people's reactions.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The only ones who can “fight” them are those with extremely willing ignorance and delusion, that said, I don’t think they do so well when they can’t come up with a counterargument or even know situations in detail

 

[Terthna]

The only ones who can “fight” them are those with extremely willing ignorance and delusion, that said, I don’t think they do so well when they can’t come up with a counterargument or even know situations in detail

They're also, like most people, prone to personal bias; I still don't understand their beef with Sargon of Akkad, or why they felt the need to paste his mug across their entire forum for a few days.

 

[Isem]

I'm not a fan of the community there, but I've got to give them credit; if you want to know what someone has done and/or said on the internet, sometimes even off of it, Kiwifarms is probably the best place to find out. As I recall, Vic's lawyer has said they've been instrumental in finding evidence to support the case against his client's accusers; and considering the sheer amount of data they uncovered and put up on their forum, I believe him.

The farms were the people who brought the case of Ron Toye being an abuser to Nick's attention. One of the guys there got so annoyed by the kickvic people posting on twitter they physically went to a Texas courthouse and got the case details there and gave them to Nick.

They've also been pretty good at keeping up with new filings in the legal thread such as the recent Beard filing which had an affidavit by Chuck Huber which amongst other things said that apparently Funimation had a casting couch of it's own.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The farms were the people who brought the case of Ron Toye being an abuser to Nick's attention. One of the guys there got so annoyed by the kickvic people posting on twitter they physically went to a Texas courthouse and got the case details there and gave them to Nick.

They've also been pretty good at keeping up with new filings in the legal thread such as the recent Beard filing which had an affidavit by Chuck Huber which amongst other things said that apparently Funimation had a casting couch of it's own.

I heard that Funimation’s other problems involve angry disapproval over from Japan

Not sure how much the Japanese know or pay attention, but I’d think they’d be extra pissed knowing what that the accusers are getting away with similar to worse behavior

 

[ShadowsOfParadox]

That's because the court doesn't determine who was worthless it determines who is guilty of an action. When you let 10 guilty men going free you let 10 individual actions go unpunished. Do not let 10 individual machines that cause crime and only calls crime go unpunished forever free of any punishment

the problem is, if you decide ten innocent people are guilty the ten people who actually DID those things are going free. For ten innocents to suffer requires ten guilty men go free.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

the problem is, if you decide ten innocent people are guilty the ten people who actually DID those things are going free. For ten innocents to suffer requires ten guilty men go free.

Not necessarily always guilty of the exact same crime though, the innocent men may just be distractions for other crimes

 

[Arch Dornan]

After this how hated would Nick and Ty be?

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Sorta off topic, but is #MeToo making men in the West like hikkikomori and otaku in Japan?

Because I can see increased mockery of those “incels” who take to waifu pillows and vn’s as a substitute for relationships along with being actual consumers of entertainment that the FarLeft looks down on yet wants to take over

 

[Arch Dornan]

Sorta off topic, but is #MeToo making men in the West like hikkikomori and otaku in Japan?

Because I can see increased mockery of those “incels” who take to waifu pillows and vn’s as a substitute for relationships along with being actual consumers of entertainment that the FarLeft looks down on yet wants to take over

Could be. Wouldn't say like a hikkikomori. Could be a normal guy who has a job but is still single without being too extreme about it.

 

[GooseActual]

So if you knew someone had committed a crime, and could possibly harm others, your preferred course of action would be to do basically nothing and pat yourself on the back for not causing a ruckus?

How did you possibly arrive at that conclusion? You could start a small farm with all that straw. And I already resent your entire post because you started off with such flagrant bullshit.

If you want lawful justice, go through the police

If you want mob justice, post on Twitter. That’s all Twitter is. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

Yes the police have had issues in the past. But nothing is going to improve if the “never go to cops, Twitter is better option” mentality is allowed to continue.

Again, you clearly had to deal with unfounded, bullshit and libelous accusations before and it really fucking shows. How can one defend themselves with anybody defense other than “she’s lying” which you fucking know will only draw more ire from the Twittersphere but makes up the backbone of truth seeking... cross examination

 

[Arch Dornan]

Could be. Wouldn't say like a hikkikomori. Could be a normal guy who has a job but is still single without being too extreme about it.

So on that it's either that or they kill themselves from the latest by Tim Pool probably in this environemnt with a demonisation of cis white males.

 

[Battlegrinder]

She didn't "deliberately invoke the mob." She posted an account of being abused by Alec Holowka. At no point did she direct people to harass him.

No, she just posted inflammatory accusations on Twitter, where she knew damn well people would run with those accusations and take it as an excuse to attack him, because that's precisely what she has consistently claimed gamergate did to her. This pattern of social media lynch mobs running amok the second someone points them toward a target is too well established for her to claim ignorance or innocence, doubly so because she won't shut up about being a victim of the same.

She got so much attention because a harassment campaign against her ended up developing into a massive reactionary clusterfuck that went on to influence US politics to this day. She doesn't have a ton of money or serious political/media connections.

I'd say that's half right. Sarkeesian, Quinn, etc, were nobodies up until they started screeching about "harrassment" on the internet, and they used the media attention from that "harrassment" to raise thier profile and build those connections and influence. That said, I put harrassment in quotes there because it was little more than being shit-talked on twitter, and they very deliberately overhyped what little of it there was in order to build their profile. And also because they tend to label actual criticism or rebuttals as harrassment.

I'm not going to bother going through the rest of it because quite bluntly I have 0 faith in someone who starts off their journal lying outright about cases you can easily find the details about with a basic google search.

I actually am going through all of it, though it's going to take a while. But just for starters, the paper is misusing and abusing several statistics. It consistently claim that the false report rate for rape is 2-3%, which is incorrect, there is no firm, confirmed rate, and in fact studies return consistently varying results. 2% is a common low end, but most studies have an upper range of 10% or so. But some studies are indeed that low.....and some are on the order of 50%.

Those studies also count false results only if the incident is proven false, which could with the low conviction rate for rape, leaves a massive grey area with lots of crimes that could be real or not real.

I'm also noticing a pattern of taking studies conducted on one department, or in one area, and then assuming them to be the case everywhere, or of building an emotional narrative using examples where a women reports a rape and is wrongly charged for filing a false report, which while a gross perversion of justice, is also an extremely, extremely rare occurrence according to the studies own logic.

 

[Strigan44]

Influence US politics to this day? The only people who care or are talking about Gamergate are a few people who hated it. No one else even cares about that anymore. Its dead and long since been dead. The only thing I think you can say is that for many it was a big showing of how the news media will lie and tell half truths and are highly politically biased. It can be considered a birth for Fake News.

I really don't want to risk a Gamergate derail, so I'll concede the stuff about the movement being dead. (I would like to note, though- isn't a controversy being "the birthplace of Fake News" a clear cut example of it having influence to this day?). My point is that Zoe's status as a public mostly stems from them recieving completely unwanted attention.

Would you consider this suicide a second exception?

We don't know what would have happened if he hadn't committed suicide, so it's a bit of a difficult question. I'd like to remind everyone that Alec was mentally ill and at risk for suicide before the allegations came out.

So the most wrong thing on this forum you ever read was that false accusations can end your life.

Read my post again. I was responding specifically to the argument that people with more power suffer more consequences from false allegations. Also, this forum has barely been around for a month, "most wrong thing so far" isn't even a very high bar to cross.

And his statement is so wrong that you point out that it only 'temporarily' harms famous people. The only exception is people who aren't arbitrarily famous enough.... you know.... Vice Presidents of companies

Justine Sacco was a PR manager, not a vice president.

and actual novelists.

The author I was referring to ( Amélie Wen Zhao) was a relatively obscure YA writer (and YA has a reputation for toxic drama.) not exactly someone with George R.R. Martin levels of name recognition and influence.

What a relief.... if your a member of the top .01% though... chances are you'll only get a three month to three year hiccup that'll hound you for the rest of your life and probably your family/estate a few decades after that.

How thoroughly did you read the article I linked?

The rape kit scandal is actual poor performance by the police but still isn't an argument to not at least make an attempt to go to the police. Which is what you're arguing is the correct move. And in all likelyhood they have improved since the scandal hit. Ignoring that however, this is a Canadian case not a US one. The performance of the US cops is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Unfounded: Police dismiss 1 in 5 sexual assault claims as baseless, Globe investigation reveals

The Globe and Mail gathered data from more than 870 police jurisdictions covering 92 per cent of the country’s population

www.theglobeandmail.com

Your second link is to someone who started their little work with a defense of someone who was caught faking a rape claim. It is telling, that the best some feminist sites can do is go "oh but she was vulnerable and had a bad childhood she shouldn't go to jail for lying". And why did she lie you might ask? Why to not have to take exams of course. And that was just something I found when looking up the author's name on google and finding a page calling her out on it and then searching the name it mentioned. I'm not going to bother going through the rest of it because quite bluntly I have 0 faith in someone who starts off their journal lying outright about cases you can easily find the details about with a basic google search.

First, the paper doesn't say that she wasn't convicted. Second, you're going to completely ignore all of the examples and evidence gathered in the report just because of the first paragraph? I also love how you're willing to take a crazy guy who sends legal scholars aggressive and emotional emails and believes it's some sign of injustice when they don't respond.

Hands up don't shoot. Where witness who'd lied before court and helped cause a US wide outrage suddenly realized they couldn't keep at it in a court of law without any consequences and rapidly changed their tune. The best part is that lie still gets brought up to this very day.

Dafuq does that have to do with rape accusations?

The Vic case's one is more difficult by virtue of the nature of the case. The name of the individual is Sam Swicegood who also went under the username ponytoast on twitter. First let's start with his twitter claims as per the archives taken of them by kiwifarms. Started off really strong didn't he? It didn't really last unfortunately for him. As per Nick's coverage of it (1:04:12 to 1:13:21) the police report didn't exist and he retracted everything.

Kiwifarms is not a reliable source. At all.

And so your solution is to start an online lynch mob where any accusation will be taken as true? Where nothing the person accused says matters and where his guilt will be assumed by nearly everyone unless the accuser manages to fuck it up by falling apart on being questioned? That's not justice. Not even remotely close. The point of these callouts is not to get corroboration. It's to ruin someone without having to bother to go to court or even make a slight attempt to prove your claim. Knowing full well that attempting to get the accuser in court to defend yourself would be almost ruinously expensive assuming you can even win the case, the current Vic Mignogna case has a gofundme that's nearly at the 250k mark and that probably still won't be enough. and very few people who are attacked like that can afford to or will be willing to muster a defense after they've been fired from their job and abandoned by nearly everyone they know. Risk free, consequence free.

Do you not give a shit about the people being accused who have no ability to even attempt to defend themselves? Do you think that it's just that someone can just accuse you of something and ruin your entire life and there's nothing you can reasonably do to defend yourself that would work? We have the courts for a reason. It's so that we have actual justice not some random lynch mob deciding things. Because otherwise? We're going to have more suicides and at some point, someone is going to really snap and put a bullet in the person who accused them. And to be honest? I wouldn't blame them for it.

Look, I've tried to tell you guys several times that the point of public accusations isn't to cause lynch mobs and so far none of you have given me a serious response. For the last time, if you were the victim of a crime but don't have enough evidence to secure a conviction, what should you do?