LoTR force Add: Lizardmen (WHFB)

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
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The lands of Lustria are added to that of the world of LoTR. The jungles with its inhabitants, the Lizardmen, and all thoer forces as we know of the kost recent lore outside of Endtimes (so Total war series)

What do they add? Does Sauron try to conqur them?

Let's do third age
 

ThatZenoGuy

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Comrade
The lands of Lustria are added to that of the world of LoTR. The jungles with its inhabitants, the Lizardmen, and all thoer forces as we know of the kost recent lore outside of Endtimes (so Total war series)

What do they add? Does Sauron try to conqur them?

Let's do third age
Considering Orcs are technically goblins outside of the films, Lizardmen stomp the everloving shit out of Sauron's forces because something something 'great plan'.
Seriously your 'average' Lizard soldier is a 8 foot tall beefcake with scales as hard as iron.
 

Zachowon

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Considering Orcs are technically goblins outside of the films, Lizardmen stomp the everloving shit out of Sauron's forces because something something 'great plan'.
Seriously your 'average' Lizard soldier is a 8 foot tall beefcake with scales as hard as iron.
I wouldn't say as hard as Iron.
The kroxigor take about 20 something Arrows or bolts to take down.
 

ThatZenoGuy

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I wouldn't say as hard as Iron.
The kroxigor take about 20 something Arrows or bolts to take down.
"Their tough hides bear spines, bony crests and thick scales that can turn aside all but the surest of sword strokes"
At the least its doubtful that Orcs can easily take them down, given that full bodied men struggle to do the job.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
"Their tough hides bear spines, bony crests and thick scales that can turn aside all but the surest of sword strokes"
At the least its doubtful that Orcs can easily take them down, given that full bodied men struggle to do the job.
I mean true.
The Slann may present a very powerful foe as well
 

ATP

Well-known member
The lands of Lustria are added to that of the world of LoTR. The jungles with its inhabitants, the Lizardmen, and all thoer forces as we know of the kost recent lore outside of Endtimes (so Total war series)

What do they add? Does Sauron try to conqur them?

Let's do third age
Try and fail.Do not change anything in destroing him,but - since it supposed to be our past - we have Lizardmen now.
Maybe they even conqered Earth after fall of Gondor to their version of wokinees?
 

Husky_Khan

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Saurus Warriors have a default armor of 60 in the Total War Warhammer series which is like the lowest level of heavy armor so to speak. So not as well armored as a Bretonnian Foot Squire or Imperial Greatsword (basically a foot knight) but comparable to lighter mail and the like used by more middle tier infantry such as Kislevite skirmishers or the like. Maybe comparable to the bog standard Rohirrim armor as opposed to the plate armor used by the Gondorian soldiers or Uruk Hai.

Of course like all good cinema, armor is basically made of paper that can be easily carved into by a ghoul with a breadknife but still. I wouldn't go out and say that Saurus Warriors are somehow scaled (get it?) directly to hitting a chunk of iron ore regardless of what flavor text says. Maybe it's more comparable to SCALE MAIL... heh... Okay I'll stop.

I haven't read much lore on the Lizardfolk but if Lustria was ported into Middle Earth, either their cosmology is completely separate or it somehow fits into the Tolkien mythology. If it's the latter then whatever the intention of the Ainur is (and likely the Valar specifically) would be a substitute for the Great Plan and Precusors that the Slann leadership has so much affinity for.

But in proper Versus fashion, if they were attached to Middle Earth in a vacuum, then the Slann would have to prognosticate what to do and the Slann are so smart and perpetual that it could take ages for anything regarding a foreign policy directive to be figured out. If the Lizardman act defensively or passively, then that would work into the favor of the Forces of Good in Middle Earth.

The Lizardmen are probably more then content in just hanging out in Lustria doing stuff. That's how it had been for many millenia after The Great Catastrophe. But Sauron being Sauron would likely want to corrupt and/or pillage the Lustrian lands. But if the overwhelming forces of Chaos and their Gods couldn't even influence or corrupt the Slann Mage Priest leadership or their subjects in the slightest whatsoever during the Great Catastrophe, there is absolutely no way Sauron is going to be able to corrupt them or even properly manipulate them.

This would be doubly hard because Sauron's allies and minions tend to be Goblins and Orcs were are pretty closely related to the Goblins and Orcs that the Lizardmen were basically created to eliminate from their original world by the Great Old Ones. Plus Mordor's alliances with piratical factions like Umbar and Haradrim and his earlier corruption of Numenor would all likely leave a poor impression on the scalies.

The only thing that would save Mordor from retribution is that the Lizardman aren't an expansionist threat and mostly defensive in outlook. They'd likely prevent hostile invaders from creating enclaves in Lustria (there's exceptions with Norsii and colonies from the Southern Realms but they're super small unlike in the game) and do so successfully because Mordor isn't full of hacks like the Skaven are. The Lizardfolk have taken out Dark Elf Black Arks that beached on their property and the lore seems to make it clear that if the Lizardfolk wanted to wipe out the Norse at Skeggi or whatever... they could etc.

But I don't see Lizardfolk marching onto Mordor side by side with Rohan and Gondor or anything. Except maybe after decades or generations of careful negotiations and many prognostications between Slann Mage Priests and non-Saruman Wizardry or maybe certain High Elf Nobles.

Humans and Elves would have an advantage in dealing with the Lizardfolk because apparently their existence is part of the Great Plan after all unlike with filthy Greenskins.
 

ThatZenoGuy

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Using Total War Warhammer as a source is...Not excellent, the game is less about lore and more about balance.

The lore says they're exceptionally hard to kill by human weaponry, with Kroxigors having scales as good if not stronger as the Emperors bodyguard scale-armor. Given that humans know how to use steel in the universe, Saurus warriors might legitimately have scales as tough as iron, which I should stress is not quite as strong as steel and their scales are not particularly thick until they've lived for a very long time.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
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Using Total War Warhammer as a source is...Not excellent, the game is less about lore and more about balance.

That's great. Let's see what substantial disagreement you have with me that will arise from this poor use of sources.

Saurus warriors might legitimately have scales as tough as iron, which I should stress is not quite as strong as steel and their scales are not particularly thick until they've lived for a very long time.

So Saurus scales might not be as strong as steel plate... or in other words...

Saurus Warriors have a default armor of 60 in the Total War Warhammer series which is like the lowest level of heavy armor so to speak. So not as well armored as a Bretonnian Foot Squire or Imperial Greatsword (basically a foot knight) but comparable to lighter mail and the like used by more middle tier infantry such as Kislevite skirmishers or the like. Maybe comparable to the bog standard Rohirrim armor as opposed to the plate armor used by the Gondorian soldiers or Uruk Hai.

Of course like all good cinema, armor is basically made of paper that can be easily carved into by a ghoul with a breadknife but still. I wouldn't go out and say that Saurus Warriors are somehow scaled (get it?) directly to hitting a chunk of iron ore regardless of what flavor text says. Maybe it's more comparable to SCALE MAIL... heh... Okay I'll stop.

Huh weird, looks like someone already pointed that out. Weird. Must've missed it the first time around. :p
 

ThatZenoGuy

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That's great. Let's see what substantial disagreement you have with me that will arise from this poor use of sources.

So Saurus scales might not be as strong as steel plate... or in other words...

Huh weird, looks like someone already pointed that out. Weird. Must've missed it the first time around. :p
You're coming to the conclusion with a videogame which has nothing to do with how the lore works, that's the problem. :V
 

Husky_Khan

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Founder
>Game features controllable feral carnosaurs
>Feral carnosaurs do not exist as a Lizardmen unit in the lore

Oh I'm sorry. I meant in regards to my post. Something relevant since you were disputing it.

And there's nothing about Carnosaurs not being controllable that's lorebreaking.
 

ThatZenoGuy

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Oh I'm sorry. I meant in regards to my post. Something relevant since you were disputing it.

And there's nothing about Carnosaurs not being controllable that's lorebreaking.
Carnosaurs need a rider because otherwise they're just big stompy beasties which cannot be controlled.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
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Carnosaurs need a rider because otherwise they're just big stompy beasties which cannot be controlled.

And what relevance does your supposition on Carnosaur behavior have in regards to my post and the thread discussion since Carnosaurs were never brought up?
 

ThatZenoGuy

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And what relevance does your supposition on Carnosaur behavior have in regards to my post and the thread discussion since Carnosaurs were never brought up?
The point being that Total War Warhammer does not depict the lore appropriately, so it's best not to use it? Try to stick to the books, internet sources and so on?
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
The point being that Total War Warhammer does not depict the lore appropriately, so it's best not to use it? Try to stick to the books, internet sources and so on?

I just did use it as a source because it was valid to do so and the OP actually brought it up so it seemed doubly appropriate.

Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary since you took the time to respond that you disagreed with me.

Or you know, keep whining about how I should just look everything up on a Fandom Wiki like you instead of putting a minimal of effort into my posts. :p
 

ThatZenoGuy

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I just did use it as a source because it was valid to do so and the OP actually brought it up so it seemed doubly appropriate.

Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary since you took the time to respond that you disagreed with me.

Or you know, keep whining about how I should just look everything up on a Fandom Wiki like you instead of putting a minimal of effort into my posts. :p
All righty then.
 

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