Joseph Stalin is given the General Gouvernment (minus Warsaw) in 1939 as a part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact

W

WolfBear

Well-known member
This is my last thread for today:

What if Joseph Stalin is given the General Gouvernment (minus Warsaw, which has to fall to the Nazis for public relations reasons so that they and not the Soviet Union will get blamed for Poland's fall) in 1939 as a part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact in addition to all of the other territories that he was given? The logic behind this would be for Stalin to be able to loot this territory and for Stalin to be able to use this territory as a bargaining chip in any future negotiations with the Western Allies over Poland's final fate in the event that the Western Allies will defeat Nazi Germany. Stalin could use the General Gouvernment (after thoroughly looting it, of course) as a trading chip in exchange for getting the Western Allies to agree to a Curzon Line western border for the Soviet Union, for instance.

For what it's worth, I'm especially interested in what effect this has on Operation Barbarossa and beyond as well as on just how many additional Jews a more western Soviet boundary allows to be successfully evacuated from the Nazis in 1941-1942. In real life, over a million Soviet Jews were successfully evacuated from the Nazis in 1941 (and a few more in 1942), but this number would almost certainly be even higher here since the Soviet Union's borders will be located even further to the west, especially in the southern sector.

Thoughts?
 
To elaborate on what I mean here: In real life, in Operation Barbarossa, the Axis advance in the south was slower than their advance in the center and north:


ccf21042017-jpg.318434


Here, the northern and central sectors will look very similar, but the southern sector will get a lot of extra protection due to the Soviet Union also controlling the General Gouvernment (again, minus Warsaw). So, essentially all of Poland south of Warsaw and east of Lodz will be in Soviet hands at the start of Operation Barbarossa in this scenario.
 
From what I remember Stalin was offered the territories of General Government, but stood by the Curzon line. He didn't want any more Poles in the Soviet Union, just like Bismarck didn't want any more papists in Germany, decades ago.
 
Butch R. Mann said:
From what I remember Stalin was offered the territories of General Government, but stood by the Curzon line. He didn't want any more Poles in the Soviet Union, just like Bismarck didn't want any more papists in Germany, decades ago.
Click to expand...

Do you know when exactly Hitler offered Stalin the General Government territories?
 
I think it was part of the initial pact negotiations, with the secret part of the pact establishing former Tzarist border. Staying at Curzon line was an accidental masterstroke by Stalin, giving the allies a fig leave to enter into alliance with him in 1941, because he totally just went in to protect the Belorussians and Ukrainians and not to invade, like Hitler did. Real humanitarian, Uncle Joe.
 
Butch R. Mann said:
I think it was part of the initial pact negotiations, with the secret part of the pact establishing former Tzarist border. Staying at Curzon line was an accidental masterstroke by Stalin, giving the allies a fig leave to enter into alliance with him in 1941, because he totally just went in to protect the Belorussians and Ukrainians and not to invade, like Hitler did. Real humanitarian, Uncle Joe.
Click to expand...

I honestly think that it might not have made a difference either way since in 1941 even if Stalin would have previously taken more territory he could promise to reestablish an independent Polish state west of the Curzon Line at the end of the war.

Having Stalin annex the General Government (minus Warsaw) would have given more time for the Jews of Ukraine and Belarus (especially Ukraine) to flee from the Nazi advance in Operation Barbarossa, thus very likely ensuring that more of them would succeed in fleeing and thus having their lives saved from the impending Nazi Holocaust.
 
Look at the original M-R demarcation line - that only changed on 24.09 or 26.09 - or thereabouts :)
As to the effects on Barbarossa - there was a thread about such scenario.
IMO the Soviets lose even more troops at the onset due to huuuuge salient and Lithuania under German control.
Also - under the M-R Pact the Soviets were to attack on September 7th or 8th.
 
Buba said:
Look at the original M-R demarcation line - that only changed on 24.09 or 26.09 - or thereabouts :)
As to the effects on Barbarossa - there was a thread about such scenario.
IMO the Soviets lose even more troops at the onset due to huuuuge salient and Lithuania under German control.
Also - under the M-R Pact the Soviets were to attack on September 7th or 8th.
Click to expand...

Except here Lithuania won't be under German control. Stalin will demand the General Gouvernment in exchange for nothing.

Why did the Soviets delay their attack?

And where is the relevant thread?

And Yes, I'm aware that the original M-R partition line was changed. Here, Stalin makes a more generous partition for the Soviet Union a precondition for him signing this pact.
 
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