DC Injustice Superman did nothing wrong

[Husky_Khan]

In Ancient Greece a Tyrant wasn't "a cruel an oppressive ruler". A tyrant was someone who illegally seized power, usually from a cruel and oppressive ruler and with the support of the oppressed.

Conversely: in Ancient Rome a Dictator was someone who was legally granted absolute power for six months by the Senate to deal with a crisis.

FYI Injustice doesn't take place in Ancient Rome or Greece.

Though that could explain Wonder Woman being a hateful bitch in the series.

 

[bintananth]

FYI Injustice doesn't take place in Ancient Rome or Greece.

Though that could explain Wonder Woman being a hateful bitch in the series.

Wonder Woman's name - Diana, Princess of the Amazons - roughly means "heavenly divine and appointed ruler of women who don't take shit from men".

 

[Free-Stater 101]

Though that could explain Wonder Woman being a hateful bitch in the series.

In all honesty this is not surprising, and is the result of Steve being a Nazi mole as a twist and spurning her and not living up to morals unlike in every other TL. Injustice Diana is the embodiment of a woman of Ancient Greece who doesn't rule the world herself but seizes power by being the main pillar of the household for the man that does.

It's probably a result of her belief that man will 'never change' after Steve's betrayal that's led her to the idea that men 'need' an ultra powerful enlightened ruler to reign in their worst impulses and Clark unlike Steve who let her down, would seem to fit the bill of being that idealized man to her.

So she doesn't stand besides Superman out of just infatuation or admiration for him, but also a mindset that to influence man's world she must be in a position of strength and being Clarks lover/friend/head of household provides it.

 

[bintananth]

So she doesn't stand besides Superman out of just infatuation or admiration for him, but also a mindset that to influence man's world she must be in a position of strength and being Clarks lover/friend/head of household provides it.

That mindset is very backwards on the part of the comic creators. My wife spent part of her adolescence in Indonesia. When she tells me to leave the kitchen I'm not going to argue because I've seen how quickly she can mince meat and I'd be sleeping outside without dinner, an upset stomach, and nightmares from what she does if I don't.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

The thing is the injustice Storyline really didn't make that much since and honestly it got worse the more they tried to explain it.

Injustice: *Tries using fascist king superman to justify Batman's no kill rule.* except everything he does from then on out has nothing to do with the Joker or superman killing him.

Injustice: Retcons superman's behavior by saying 🎶"It was wonder woman all along"🎶 Except that totally goes against wonder woman's character unless you're dealing with ASBAR Wonder Woman:

Injustice: justifies wonder woman's OOC behavior by completely changing her origin.

It really only makes sense if Injustice is less as "What if Superman killed joker?" and more of a completly different universe like the ultimates comics. oddly enough I'm surprised that the Injustice Earth is considered stable enough to not be a part of the "Dark multiverse." as the Dark Multiverse is supposed to basically be a meta commentary on badly written uber grimdark creepypasta esque fanfics. At least it's no Future's end but I digress

 

[bintananth]

The thing is the injustice Storyline really didn't make that much since and honestly it got worse the more they tried to explain it.

Injustice: *Tries using fascist king superman to justify Batman's no kill rule.* except everything he does from then on out has nothing to do with the Joker or superman killing him.

Injustice: Retcons superman's behavior by saying 🎶"It was wonder woman all along"🎶 Except that totally goes against wonder woman's character unless you're dealing with ASBAR Wonder Woman:

Injustice: justifies wonder woman's OOC behavior by completely changing her origin.

It really only makes sense if Injustice is less as "What if Superman killed joker?" and more of a completly different universe like the ultimates comics. oddly enough I'm surprised that the Injustice Earth is considered stable enough to not be a part of the "Dark multiverse." as the Dark Multiverse is supposed to basically be a meta commentary on badly written uber grimdark creepypasta esque fanfics. At least it's no Future's end but I digress

My siblings and I all have three Biblical middle names which mean "follower of Christ", "God is my oath", and "star of the sea" or "virgin mother" along with given a surname that is not biblical but means "from a forest village".

 

[Free-Stater 101]

My siblings and I all have three Biblical middle names which mean "follower of Christ", "God is my oath", and "star of the sea" or "virgin mother" along with given a surname that is not biblical but means "from a forest village".

Did you post this in the wrong thread?

 

[bintananth]

Did you post this in the wrong thread?

No.

When you look at superhero and super villian names they often aren't original once the meanings are looked at.

 

[King Arts]

Then you should change the OP to say movie only or make it a two scenario debate. But the movie seems to just be a b*stardized version of the comic and that will come up.

No you can bring it up, but you have to actually describe it since not everyone knows the comics history.

He can also break free most likely and cause the entire thing to re-ignite again, which will outweigh any benefits keeping him around would have.

The risk simply isn't worth it to say nothing of how low a moral character it shows Superman to have.

Well according to He man vs Injustice Batman did not break out of mind control. Also he may have sentimental reasons to not want to kill his former best friend.
As for low moral character again that's your oppinion that mind controlling someone is worse than killing them. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Maybe but in doing so he will have ensure old that if she ever breaks feee she will only ever see him as a tyrannical enemy rather than a misguided relative. Making her actually go all out rather than holding back or taking the opportunity to just flee earth.

And even the Superman has a city of Krytonians at that point so she isn't irreplaceable.

Maybe. Still though she is useful in a number of ways from resurrecting the Kyptonian race to being another heavy hitter.

There is only one man who has a fair claim to being ruler of DC earth and that's Lex Luthor.

In any case there is no such thing as a 'rightful ruler' plain and simple Superman didn't get made world leader because it was owed to him, but because he seized it by force.

And 'Yes' he very well is a tyrant under every the very definition of the word.

a cruel and oppressive ruler.

That is literally the Oxford Dictionaries definition of the term and he fits the bill.

Why do you believe Lex Luthor has a claim to being the ruler of DC earth?

Also every "rightful ruler" gets it because either they seized it by force or their ancestors did. Super man is no different than any great man in history. He also has the possibility of creating the greatest nation for his followers by eliminating sickness, age, and bringing prosperity and safety.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

Well according to He man vs Injustice Batman did not break out of mind control. Also he may have sentimental reasons to not want to kill his former best friend.

So he's going to Brainwash him into being a mindless robot just so he can keep up his delusion of friendship despite the risk it puts his regime that's real comforting!

And according to other media Batman has broken out of mine control with other league members multiple times and since he has done that at least once, it's likely he can again.

Sentimentality and favoritism has no place in a world ruler when handling threats which is why he is such a terrible ruler as he makes everything personal when in no way should it be.

Maybe. Still though she is useful in a number of ways from resurrecting the Kyptonian race to being another heavy hitter.

So being a mind controlled soldier/broodmare is the perfect/just punishment for her treason eh?

Why do you believe Lex Luthor has a claim to being the ruler of DC earth?

Like I said nobody has a 'claim' to being ruler of the earth, I was merely stating my position that if the Earth of DC must have a world ruler I would rather it be Luthor over Superman.

Luthor is human for one and at least unlike Superman he isn't self righteous, furthermore he has created utopian governments in multiple realities without strong arming or brainwashing anyone.

Also every "rightful ruler" gets it because either they seized it by force or their ancestors did. Super man is no different than any great man in history.

Superman lost ultimately and thus he wasn't the 'rightful ruler' of anything.

He also has the possibility of creating the greatest nation for his followers by eliminating sickness, age, and bringing prosperity and safety.

If I wanted all of those things at the cost Superman is demanding to pay I would join the CCP for my troubles.

The thread title of this page is "Injustice Superman Did Nothing Wrong" yet your defense of him ultimately boils down to blaming Batman for his decent into madness (Which is partially true) and excusing every cruel action of Clarks afterward as being 'necessary' or blaming Bruce for them when Supermans actions are his own.

Killing Billy Batson for daring to question his decision was wrong.

Killing a crowd of teenagers months after Metropolis with heat vision when they possessed no means of resisting was vile.

Showing up at a mans funeral after killing him and trying to roast his lover alive when she gets angry at you being there after destroying the man she loves is repugnant.

Brainwashing his former best friend into being his servant and his cousin into being a broodmare for the sake of his cause is, selfish, evil, tyrannical and no God Damn Good!

As for low moral character again that's your opinion that mind controlling someone is worse than killing them. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Which is exactly why your argument is useless, as to you mind control isn't morally wrong.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Remember in the comics when the Greek Gods almost took over Earth and were going to ban all governments and religion thanks to Superman's machinations and counter machinations in the comics?

And since Superman was incommunicado at the time and Superman had murdered everyone from Captain Atom to the Green Lantern Corps to the Martian Manhunter and most militaries in general the Earth governments would've had to resort to nigh indiscriminate nuclear warfare to eliminate them?

But thanks to the plot Superman saved the world from said Pantheon (just like he saved the Earth in the nick of time from Apokolips, the Atlanteans, Trigon and etc etc etc prior) he then admitted to the government's that they obviously had no choice with him being absent but he was going forward with complete disarmament anyways.

God Kal'el forbid something ever happens to Superman... Who knows what would happen to Earth then...

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Remember in the comics when the Greek Gods almost took over Earth and were going to ban all governments and religion thanks to Superman's machinations and counter machinations in the comics?

And since Superman was incommunicado at the time and Superman had murdered everyone from Captain Atom to the Green Lantern Corps to the Martian Manhunter and most militaries in general the Earth governments would've had to resort to nigh indiscriminate nuclear warfare to eliminate them?

But thanks to the plot Superman saved the world from said Pantheon (just like he saved the Earth in the nick of time from Apokolips, the Atlanteans, Trigon and etc etc etc prior) he then admitted to the government's that they obviously had no choice with him being absent but he was going forward with complete disarmament anyways.

God Kal'el forbid something ever happens to Superman... Who knows what would happen to Earth then...

honestly, the way DC handles Vengeance and madness, it's a wonder Superman doesn't declare he's "Jehovah made flesh" or go Crime Syndicate Owlman and try to kill the whole multiverse to "Keep the peace."

 

[ParadiseLost]

You can't really draw real world applications or apply real world morals to comics, because comics live in a tortured universe where genre conventions are god.

If you want to debate morality in a super hero setting and be serious about it, you have to use something like Worm or My Hero Academia.

 

[Zachowon]

You can't really draw real world applications or apply real world morals to comics, because comics live in a tortured universe where genre conventions are god.

If you want to debate morality in a super hero setting and be serious about it, you have to use something like Worm or My Hero Academia.

Not really.
Certain series within comics can.
You just have to take that into account the universe itself then add your morality onto it.



As for the thread,
The comics and games are slightly diffremt from each other.
The comics are shit and people said they wouldn't cause they likes the game.

Injustice story is the pinnacle of why superman gets the hate he dies, and why I will always say Marvel is better then DC.

 

[Navarro]

Side effect of the format. Back the day the Comics Code said "the villian is not allowed to get away scot-free" and these are long-running series.

If the villians of the issue are limited to a more realistic "one-and-done" rule for really horrible stuff, the writers would run out of ideas and resort to:

- same schtick, different costume
- mostly harmless and only commits misdemeanors with the occasional minor felony that gets tossed for lack of evidence
- WTF villians like Razorfist*
- bad guys who don't commit any crimes are just unlikeable twatwaffles

Injustice Superman ending Joker once and for all: understandable and justified

Injustice Superman going off the rails and taking over: yup, that's the villian

* That character could have been well written, but he wouldn't be a villian if he was. He'd be like this guy:

Galvarino - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Another issue is that American superhero comics started out as really episodic and are still bound by that origin to an extent. Bar one-off miniseries and the like, they weren't and aren't intended to tell a complete story with a beginning, middle and end. So villains and heroes getting imprisoned in cardboard jails, or coming back from death via increasingly contrived circumstances, are just part of the way things are.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

honestly, I think injustice would have been better if the roles were reversed. Like keep the beginning part the same you could even keep the whole Superman kill the Joker, but have it to where Batman feels guilty that Superman was the one that ended up having to kill the joker. How many times did Batman have the chance to kill the Joker but didn't.

Batman: "How many Clark?!? Barbara, Jason, Lois, how many lives did I destroy letting him live?!? Did you ever keep count?"

Superman: "Bruce I...No, I didn't."

Batman: "I did Clark!...I did."

In a way that would make things more ironic. Batman did the whole no killing rule for fear if he killed, he would be driven over the edge. But in the end, it was his no killing rule that drives him insane.

 

[Husky_Khan]

honestly, I think injustice would have been better if the roles were reversed. Like keep the beginning part the same you could even keep the whole Superman kill the Joker, but have it to where Batman feels guilty that Superman was the one that ended up having to kill the joker. How many times did Batman have the chance to kill the Joker but didn't.

Batman: "How many Clark?!? Barbara, Jason, Lois, how many lives did I destroy letting him live?!? Did you ever keep count?"

Superman: "Bruce I...No, I didn't."

Batman: "I did Clark!...I did."

In a way that would make things more ironic. Batman did the whole no killing rule for fear if he killed, he would be driven over the edge. But in the end, it was his no killing rule that drives him insane.

It's true. Superman or Superman analogues taking over the World or having no self imposed limitations has been done a lot.

Authority. Superman: Red Son. Hyperion. Kingdom Come. Squadron Supreme. Injustice of course. Etc...

Batman engaging in megalomania would actually be novel at this point.

 

[bintananth]

It's true. Superman or Superman analogues taking over the World or having no self imposed limitations has been done a lot.

Authority. Superman: Red Son. Hyperion. Kingdom Come. Squadron Supreme. Injustice of course. Etc...

Batman engaging in megalomania would actually be novel at this point.

One of the nicest things about Batman is the fact the he has an "I absolutely won't go there" limit he won't cross most other comic book characters can go past.

Does that make him a good person? Not necessarily. Is he a good person because of "I won't do that under any circumstances"? No. That might actually make him a worse monster than someone who is willing to go against their morals because the greater good requires it.

 

[TheRejectionist]

Guys, maybe I will sound like an SJW, one thing is killing the Joker. One thing is being a totalitarian titan.

The movie is so awful : Flash dies and nobody seems to care. The ending is a deus ex machina that should been avoided. Even Red Son adapted slightly better than this.

 

[ParadiseLost]

one thing is killing the Joker. One thing is being a totalitarian titan.

That's just common sense.

I'd say that the Joker being alive is actually on the government. The lack of death penalty executions in DC is insane.

Its also incomparable in reality. Unlike our world, the world of DC has a large number of violent, sadistic, hyper-competent super powered mass murderers.

If our world had Joker equivalents running around, we'd have to execute them.

I'd even agree that superheroes shouldn't be killing villains. Its not their job, its the governments job.